Jerrod, thanks for the pics of how to load the DW. Amazing how everything is, well... not so organized and still comes out clean...love that! How is the capacity?

Wackygal, does it really take 2 hours to dry? That seems so long. Is there an energy saver cycle? I am still deciding between the Miele and Electrolux, but my DH really wants the Miele because of the cutlery rack. I'm wondering if Electrolux's cycle is shorter and looking at Jerod's pictres, if it can hold more.

Thanks all.

I don't have any issues with capacity. So far I have been able to get everything into the machine even thick bowls and plates like my everyday fiesta set. in fact all of my everyday sets are thick and heavy and no problems with them.

I didn't see where wackygal said it took 2 hours just to dry but cycles can take that long depending on how hot your water is and how hot it needs to be and how large a load you have.

All DW offered today take more time than in the past.
As far as energy savings it doesn't cost much to run the pumps, most of the energy is used heating/keeping water hot and of course the more water used the more it takes.

The Excella and Laperla have additional cycles than the other models and there is an energy saver cycle.

Be careful when looking at DW because a lot of times the information will give cycle times and then say that it may take longer than stated due to time required to heat the water.

If you look at the Electolux web site you will see their DWs. Look at the manuals. There is one of them the EWDW650G that gives cycle descriptions, times and water consumption.

For this model it Looks like:

Heavy Wash takes 120 to 149 minutes and uses 9.5 gallons

Auto wash takes 99 to 162 minutes and uses 5.5 to 10.7 gallons

Normal wash takes 91 to 144 minutes and uses 4.4 to 9.5 gallons

Eco wash for lightly soiled dishes takes 78 to 80 minutes and uses 5.8 to 6.8 gallons

Quick wash for lightly soiled and pre rinsed dishes takes 45 minutes and uses 6.9 gallons

Delicate takes 91 to 106 minutes and uses 6.9 to 8.1 gallons

Stemware takes 85 to 92 minutes and uses 6.8 gallons

Rinsed only takes 20 minutes and uses 2.8 gallons.

Energy Saver on mine takes about 1 hour 30 minutes and uses about 3.18 to 4.2 gallons(the 4.2 comes if it adds a third rinse which is rare).

Sensor wash is the cycle I use the most and it takes about 1 hour 53 minutes and uses about 4.2 to 5.3 gallons(the 5.3 comes if it adds a 3rd rinse which is rare).

The Normal cycle takes about 2 hours and uses 5.3 gallons.

Like I said time depends on incoming water temperatures and the cycle you are using.

Whether or not something holds more depends on what type of dishes you have but it helps to have the silverware loaded out of the way.

Wow, I appreciate you taking the time to post your VERY informed comments so much. Good to know that you have thick dishes and your Miele holds them just fine. We are looking at the Optima. My DH wants the Miele because of the cutlery rack, and I am leaning towards Electrolux because I "heard" it running at the store, and couldn't hear it! Plus it claims to be the biggest DW out there. Everytine I go to the store to try and load my dishes in the Optima it is full of their dishes so I don't know how it loads. Maybe I should give my DH what he wants since he is trying to be patient with all my indecisions.

Jerod- thanks for posting those pics! The glasses I am referring to are a goblet type, 7" tall with a short thick stem (not a wine glass). If I flip that thing down on the left they take up too much room, will have to find a way to pack it differently...still getting used to all that headroom! but heck if everyting comes out clean i'll try adding more to the 2nd rack and see.

And about the 2-hr run time... that was a total run time, not a dry time. My old dishwasher ran in just over an hour but it was almost 10 years old and i guess run times are just longer for all models now... the others i looked at were longer too.
thanks,
stef

We put our stems in the lowest basket; our Excella has stemware holders on both sides. Our average stem is too tall for the middle basket. We load water glasses & mugs in the middle basket the way Jerrod does. After seeing Jerrod's loading photo (in an earlier post), I've been much more freeform in loading, & its all come out sparkly clean. LOVE the Miele dishwasher! BTW, we have 2 Excellas, one hooked to cold & the other to hot. Times are a bit faster for the hot hookup, & we do run China a lot on the cold water hookup.

Hi Jerrod -- good to "see you"!

I bought a lot of dishes at an auction and had to wash them when they came. I had 34 dinner plates in the Miele in a single load. When we have guests it has never been so easy.

Wanted to also note that my middle baskets adjusts in height so I can put the slightly taller glasses in a load by adjusting that. (I have 3.y.o. Incognito/now Excella) on cold water hook up. Things do slide around but I pack them in, particularly on the silverware rack which is incredibly handy.

We usually run the DW at night so I don't care how long it takes.

Everyone has different needs and comes to different solutions about this and of course there's always budget considerations. I had a bumpy start with my DW (it was hooked up to hot water and we have a whole house softener) but 3 years later it is just one of the best things I bought and I wouldn't trade it for anything. We've switched out to stainless pots with stainless handles and unless there is something burned on, all the pots go in, too.

We have an old heated-drying DW in our apartment and I'm hoping it will break soon so I can buy an Excella.

Rococogurl, Great testimonial! Hope I can say the same thing when we get our Optima. Thanks.

mom-- I'd gladly star if they want to make a commercial! LOL.

Catmom has the Optima. You might speak to her about it.

Thanks, Rococogurl. I'll look for you on the commercial :)

We are VERY happy with our Optima!

To those of you who have the Miele Optima (which I've just ordered) ... I chose this model because it has a cycle for fine china. I have a lot of vintage fine china and crystal ware. Have any of you been brave enough to put the good stuff into the dishwasher? I'm worried I'll still be too afraid!

Our Excella is being installed. DW (the other DW) says she won't be comfortable washing our china and crystal in it. I'll wait to see if she changes her tune after we've moved in and started doing more entertaining. I continue to maintain that the good stuff is at GREATER risk when washed by hand.

We even put our Riedel stemware in our Excella, and Riedel is notorious for breaking during hand washing. Just make sure you are hooking up to cold water for the China cycle.

I have old Rorstrand porcelain with gold rim, some dating back to 1890; also Riedel glassware and Depression Glass. No problem. I put the Vietri and Chinese export in but wouldn't put Quimper in f.ex. or things that are older than 1920s (unless porcelain), low fire clay, or too worn.

With cold water hook up and 115 degree wash and no heated drying I've had no problem. The clinker is the detergent.

Can tell you from experience that with the wrong detergent, or with too much detergent I could see gold rims start to disappear.

With 1/4 Miele brand DW tab it's fine. No problems. But I did have a problem with the others (one load) -- the more powerful the detergent the worse it is for old dishes.

The other thing I don't do is mix old/delicate dishes or the Riedel with pots and pans or put them through a normal cycle because I don't want etching issues with the final hot rinse (we have a whole house water softener which makes that worse).

Stick with china and crystal cycle and as little detergent as possible (I mean almost none) and it's fine. I would treat good silver (particularly plated which can be stripped by Cascade) the same way.

I buy the Miele tabs from ABT in Chicago. They are crazy expensive but I use no more than half a tab -- that handles even the dirtiest pots -- so that puts them more or less near the price of the powerballs except you pay all at once for a big box.

Here in Los Angeles, we also don't have hard water, but I did notice some water spotting on the glasses initially. The Miele vacuum store owner lives nearby and told me that even though the Miele authorized installers (not actual Miele guys but trained to install and enough to give us the extension on the warranty) said not to bother with salt, I should definitely use it. I bought the Somat, and for 4 years I've added a little bit until the light went off and it lasted 3 or 4 months. Voila, no more spots!

Today the Miele repair guys visited and they said that I should definitely add the salt, hard water or not. His take was that there is a chemical balance that the machine needs. When too many minerals built up in the machine, it draws upon the salt to neutralize and clean them away. I figure a box of Somat isn't all that expensive --under $12. If they say that it's good for the machine, I'll use it.

I love my machine and the split silverware basket!

Wow: this is news to me. We just installed two Excellas. They are supposed to sense hard water (which we don't have) and then signal a need for salt. My recollection is that the manual suggests that if the salt signal is not coming on, then there is no reason to use it.

I am always suspicious of service guys who come out with the "inside scoop." I trust GWebbers more--so, does anyone know if there is indeed any reason to add salt to our Excellas if no hard water is detected?

I'm not sure where you got the idea signal for salt? What page of the manual is that on? I added salt in early July and have not added any yet. Likely wash every 3-4 days (only 2 of us mostly). The hardness reading is 7 on the machine and it is set to Auto. I'm of the belief if the machine can adjust the water to be perfect when I add salt then I will do it. If it does not need much then I will have a long time between salt fill ups.

I don't know about the Excella, but on the Laperla if it needs salt it will display a sentence on the screen, usually at the end of a cycle. It will say something like
"Please refill the salt" something like that.
It is true that using hard water will begin to leave scale on the insides of the pump and other parts, but I think this only happens with hard water.

Look in the front of manual on the pages that talk about using for the first time in the discussion about the water softener and the salt refill message.

Our DW (Optima) calls for more salt every 6-7 months.

canuck99:

Excella series G2670 SC manual. Page 13.

"If the hardness of your local water supply is constantly lower than 4 gr/gal, you do not need to add water softener salt. [note-bold face is Miele's]
The message to refill salt will turn off automatically."

Using the Settings-Water Hardness display shows our water as measuring out at 3 gr/gal.

The way I read the bolded statement is that Miele does not support adding salt if your water is under 4 gr/gal.

If someone has well-supported evidence otherwise (that adding salt when water is already soft somehow protects the DW) I'd love to hear about it.

Given that the machine measures the hardness while the water enters and mixes hard and soft water together to get to the correct hardness I doubt it even uses the softener if the hardness criteria is not met. Keep in mind that models sold before 2006 do not have the same type of softener.

I understand the 4 reading I just thought the need salt was a consistant message if you have set the hardness setting to Auto and did not have salt in the dispenser. I have readings of 7 so I need a little salt. Remember hardness can change from time to time so be aware.

No, for our Excellas, the need salt message have never come on, despite the fact that we've never put any salt in them.

As I read the manual, if for some reason our water were to become harder, the sensor would trigger the machine to then ask for salt, so we should be protected.