If you quietly bring the appliance store manager aside out of earshotof other customers and say your budget doesn't quite accomodate what they are charging, ask for 5-10% off including sales tax too. If he or she is willing to give it or compromise, then take it. If not, you can always walk out and shop elsewhere. There are other Miele dealers in the DC area. Are your folks married to buying a Miele? They can get a highly rated Bosch for less. I presume your folks want the integrated dishwashers as they want to cover the front in the Poggenpohl cabinetry. Most European full size dishwashers are identical in in size. They are all slightly smaller in width then American dishwashers. Not discernible to the naked eye.

If your folks like a modern look, tell them to look at the brand new Thermador Freedom line with an 18" freezer and a separate 30" refrigerator. The can be put seemlessly together and look far better than a Sub-Zero and Sub Zero's have the worst repair rate in the industry. They are much better than the older Thermadors as Bosch owns them now. I would think the Thermador Freedom line would look wonderful with Poggenpohl cabinetry.

Most high end appliance stores that carry Bosch will also carry Thermador, for obvious reasons. Some may carry Miele and Sub-Zero. It all depends on whether your folks are married to both brands. I am confident whatever brands they choose if you follow my first paragraphs instructions they should be able to get a deal, particularly with ordering 2 expensive appliances from the same store.

Price-controlled only means that in published and advertised prices. The store manager can sell locally and make a deal whenever he/she wants. The trick is, you always have to be prepared to walk out and shop elsewhere if they don't make you happy. Always be prepared to tell them I can get this elsewhere and I'm not married to these two products anyway.

Greg

If they're a reputable dealer you won't be able to get anything off the price fixed brands - it's generally not worth it to them to violate their contract. On the other hand, there are other things the dealer can offer - free delivery, an extended warranty, a bigger discount on an appliance that isn't price-fixed etc. It does pay to negotiate but realize the limitations on these price-fixed brands.

We have the fully integrated Miele Excella -- it is the best DW we have ever used. It has Sensor Wash & great racking flexibility.

We bought a SZ, Miele, Wolf, and Marvel and got a "package discount" in NJ. It was maybe 5% off.

CaliforniaG

Do a search here on the forum for Miele Laperla or just Miele and you will see many posts describing what is different between each of these models. I will mention a condensed version in this note:

The models offer slightly different options and have different price points. The inspiria is at the lowest price point, next the Optima, next the Excella, next the Laperla. As you move up from the inspira each model is a little bit quieter with the Laperla rated at 42db.

The Laperla cannot have the totally hidden look because it has a flat touch screen display which must be visible. I think the rest of the models you listed can be invisible.

Different options:

The inspira has 6 wash programs and 5 temperature settings and 12 place standard racks.

The Optima offers a more flexible rack configuration in which you can even wash glasses and wine glasses in the bottom rack if you want to. The racks can be raised lowered titled. It has 6 wash programs, but has vario temp which means that is uses temperature ranges depending on how dirty the dishes are...this savings energy.

The optima also has the water softener which adjusts itself to the hardness of your water so you don't have to set it.

The optima also has special provision for you to use different types of detergents powder, tabs, or gels. This may not make any sense until you realize that if the dishes are not very dirty, the water temp may not be hot enough for some tabs to dissolve. If you change the setting the machine accommodates for that and some other things.

The Excella has the same things to optima has and:
it has additional wash programs( total of 19) some of which are shorter than the regular ones and still do an excellent job of cleaning and drying. Some are longer and hotter and are for burned on stuck on cheese and pasta.

The Excella has additional sensors that will adjust the cycle depending on the soil load. Light soil will get less water changes...heavy soil will get more water changes and higher temperatures used.

The EXcella also has a load size sensor that will adjust the amount of each fill based on the amount and type of dishes in the load.

The Excella has a split cutlery tray--parts of it can be removed and you can slide it around to suit your needs.

The Excella also has sectioned cup racks, a glassware rail, and a height adjustable cup rack in the middle rack.

You can also remove the top rack and use special programs that wash only in the bottom rack.

The Excella and Laperla also only wash in once part of the machine at a time which reduces the amount of water needed and at any one time. The spray arms alternate.

The Laperla has everything the Excella has only it uses a touch screen interface, you can put the salt into the door like detergent instead of down in the bottom of the machine, and it is rated as quieter.

Many thanks to all who have replied so far. Jerrod, thanks especially for that review of the model differences. I'm going to forward the thread to my father and have him print it out for my mother to read. Can anybody give me the price range from the basic line to the LaPerla?

Price fixing is illegal. It's done but it shouldn't be. Many dealers give discounts -- it's always best to shop to find the right deal. When you walk in and buy only a dishwasher you should not expect a great deal. With two major appliances there should be a discount for many reasons. Some dealers will give 3% for a check because they don't need to pay credit card service fees. That's one place to begin. Generally it's safer to pay with a credit card, just in case. But I didn't and it worked out fine.

If they get a good deal, best to get it in writing so it can be price matched if necessary.

rococogurl - the Supreme Court recently ruled that UMRP is LEGAL because consumers are free to choose another brand if they don't like the price of one brand - if you don't like the fixed price of the Miele you can always buy a Bosch.

Well then, price fixing should be illegal IMO but that's a different discussion, probably for another time.

I've found is that prices do vary with dealers and by region. I didn't pay list for either my Miele oven or my Miele dw. Depends on who you buy from and, to an extent, the market you're in. In my market it's very competitive. No one is giving these appliances away by any means but there very definitely is give if you go about it the right way.

OSK... careful on what you reccommend around here. A 20 year old Poggenpohl kitchen is likely to not have doors and drawer fronts available nor appliance panels availabel today that match. That means OP needs to reuse the DW front. Are you certain the current modle Bosch DW's will take the same size as a 20 year old Miele???? Likewise panels for the freedom fridges won't be available. However the 48" SZ panels are still the same.

Also - careful on touting what's the worst. SubZeros may have some repair needs, but Viking's fridges are worse and have design flaws that are widely known - in the industry- as you say. Do not take Consumer Report's surveys as gospel and be sure to cite your facts (if you have them) when you make a bold statement such as "Sub Zero's have the worst repair rate in the industry". Heck, even some of the first Freedom owners here had/have problem in addition to a year delay in recieving the units. If you merely took the % of people with them here and the probs., they'd have a bad record too. Hardly a good bellweather for the product on the whole.

Your parents are lucky that they live in the DC area.

I live in the area and bought a Miele washer and dryer. I went to a neighboring jurisdiction and was able to buy the appliance without sales tax, no frieght and and much cheaper delivery/ installation fee. The dealer even threw in a large box of persil.

Even though the actual price of the appliances was the same, I saved over $500.00

antss -- you state "Viking's fridges are worse and have design flaws that are widely known"

I'm with you in principal and cannot say I'd recommend the brand.

However, I have a 3 y.o. Viking 36" bottom mount fridge and haven't had a moment of trouble with it. I can't say there are design flaws I'm aware of, especially since I love the way the interior is configured. It's no better or worse than any other fridge I've owned; no more or less reliable so far.

rocco - you illustrate my point EXACTLY. To make a blanket statement like OSK did is not not really doing anyone any favors. The parrots who like to tout SZ ( or any other high end) worst repair record are always referingf to the C. Reports graphical records. See the thread on that for their flaws and lack of high end appliance understanding in general. Last one I saw didn't even include Viking in the repair records! Miele fares badly in these reports too, yet has one of the best quality control programs & service programs in the industry.

All of this is not to say there are not Viking fridges that work well out there and have satisfised owners. There are. Same with SZ.

I am simply trying to point out that a lot of what's said around here is regurgitated opinion insteaad of fact.

antss -- can't disagree with that.

CR is oblivious to the market. And let's not forget, the repair stats they cite are what's reported to them, not anything done by any objective measure. Service never comes into it either -- you are quite right.

rocco - you're right. They are a good starting point and reference, but by no means the gospel. This is especially true on higher priced low volume goods. This is what I'd like people to keep in mind when they cite CR as doctorine.

I think they're fine if you want to try to figure out whether a certain GE appliance rates better than Kenmore or Whirlpool -- not specifically but like that. Or how products rated in general.

But I find it skewed when they throw in SZ with single-compressor refrigerators then don't include brands at price levels that are comparable to SZ (I'm not defending SZ, just saying).

For me, if they rate pro ranges then they should rate like to like. What they've never done is focus on high end. They touch on it only. Most people aren't buying high end, but to never to have done it when so many people who have always bought regular are, perhaps splurging on a pro-style range, or a high end vent hood seems to be to be ignorant of the market.

It's like not rating Lexus but throwing a Mercedes in with all the other cars.