We got our Hydroban locally for about $61/gallon... the local American Olean store carries Laticrete. We didn't look into Redguard because Hydroban is so highly recommended. I believe most professionals like it better, but don't know the exact differences.

Hydroban is so highly recommended. I believe most professionals like it better, but don't know the exact differences.

I think it has more to do with Custom Building Products (the manufacturer) than anything else. If there's a problem with any of Custom's products-- ASSUMING you can even talk a rep into coming out, the chances are very good, all he's going to do is damage control-- IOW, "What can I come up with that makes it the installer's fault, and not that of CBP?"

Laticrete is completely different. ANY time they have a problem brought to their attention, you can bet a rep will be out there promptly, if it can't be resolved over the phone. I've seen and heard of times where Laticrete had been willing to replace entire installations-- Tile, setting materials, and even labor to demo and redo the installation-- and I'm not talking small house jobs, either. These people are very committed to standing behind their products, and for that, I'm MORE than willing to pay a few bucks more. In fact, Laticrete even has programs where depending on which materials you use, they will back a 15 year, and even a LIFETIME guarantee on a tile installation done with their materials.

Yes, as many of you know, I'm good friends with the family that founded and owns Laticrete. But for those of you who know me, I have no room for nepotism in this business. If a product's not the best one for the job, I won't recommend it. But in most cases, Laticrete's products will top just about any competitor's equivalent.

One last plug for Laticrete and their products-- How many other corporate VP's of international corporations would take the time to come into forums to help potential customers and in the case of John Bridge's forum, just "hang out with the installers"? You'll find Henry Rothberg over there on almost a daily basis. He's also a member here.

Liquid-applied membranes have their place and Hydroban is the best I've found among them. I prefer Hydroban for my curbless, barrier-free, and whole-room showers though I do choose to use a fabric reinforcement when Laticrete says that none is required. Hydroban is typically twice the price of Redgard but the technology is more advanced as well.
I can't agree with Bill V. more on the point of Laticrete's customer service. My own experiences with my Laticrete rep here in Seattle has been exemplary, where I'm still waiting for a findings letter from my Custom's rep here two years after the fact and with multiple reminders. What other vice-president of an international corporation the size of Laticrete could you find who personally responds to a home owner's dilemma about a mislabeled bag of grout at 7PM on a Sunday night, and has a resolution for that home owner by the next morning? The best chemistry, the best customer service, the best new directions for the tile industry.
Can't go wrong with Hydroban,...unless you don't read the instructions. :^)
Shaughnn

OK.... so.... this confirms my sense that I should use Hydroban if I can. Bill, you say I can't get it locally w/o paying a huge mark-up? So is $70/gallon on line a good price? And do Bill and Shaughn confirm that the $60 extra between Redguard and Hydroban in my case is worth it (sounds like you do...)

DH applied Hydroban on the shower walls in our guest bathroom, and on rhe tub walls in both our hall bath and MB. He had no problems applying it himself--cut in corners with a brush and rolled it right onto the cement board (Hardibacker). He said to tell you to apply a thick coat.

Stacy,
Where are you located? The shipping fees for an online purchase could be insane. I know that my local Lowes stocks the Laticrete product line, including Hydroban. Perhaps you could get your local Lowes store to special order it for you and save yourself the shipping hassle? Even if they aren't stocking Laticrete, it's in their ordering database so it's possible. You just need to find the sales associate who's smart enough to get it done.
Best of luck,
Shaughnn

If you go to Laticrete's site, they have a Lowes locator and it will tell you which products they carry or can order. Unfortunately, all the Lowes in our area (NC) only offer spectralock. Sure would be nice to get other Laticrete products there!

Stacey, if you can't get it anywhere else, you can get it through Capozza's or Paul White's. If for whatever reason they won't get it for you, let me know, and I'll see about getting it from Dal.

Take a look at eBay, you might get lucky and get one for a much lower price. Although it's quite rare it does happen. Goodluck.

Here is a link that might be useful: bathroom suites

Thanks everyone... (& thanks Bill for your offer!)

I've been working with the girl at Lowes and she said she can special-order other items for me, like the Laticrete epoxy grout, so I'll ask her about Hydroban as well. Hopefully that will be the answer!

Now, the other hydroban thread on here made me wonder this: should I also order Laticrete's special fabric for joints and niche corners, or will plain old mud/mesh tape be OK?

It wouldn't hurt to use the fabric. They say it's not needed, that mesh tape should do fine, but I prefer the "cloth".

I thought CBU joints needed to be thinsetted and taped per their instructions. Wouldn't it be better to have thinset and taped, stronger?

It wouldn't hurt to thinset and tape the joints first. but quite frankly, if you're going to use something like Hydroban on the face of the CBU, unless you're using small mosaics, just using the fabric embedded in the waterproofing over the joints would more than suffice. That fabric is every bit as strong (and in my estimation, stronger) as the fiberglass mesh tape. It's also quite a bit wider (6" vs 2-3" for mesh tape)

Thanks, Bill. I will see about ordering some fabric with the Hyrdoban. Did you use that fabric in our shower last year?

Stacey

I think I know the answer but here goes - do you pros feel comfortable with Hydro Ban over exterior glue plywood for a shower insallation? I only ask because I don't feel comfortable with the smaller sheets of CBU and the resulting higher number of joints between sheets as it was along those joints that my shower tile has cracked. Maybe I'll just beef up a few of the studs with metal angle material and/or sheath with ply under the CBU and deal with the transition from shower wall to regular wall. I've actually seen a shower wall to regular wall transition designed in by an architect, meaning the shower walls were about 1.5" thicker.

Bill G,
I install flat-blocking(2-by-4 turned sideways) behind all of my taped CBU joints. This ensures that both panels are anchored into the same plane. Plywood, even under a waterproof layer like Hydroban, is never a good substrate for tile. The wood strands in the plywood will expand and contract very differently than the mortar and tile will and that disparity will result in tension failures. The point of using a material like cement board is that it is stable against moisture and temperature changes as well as being impervious to damage caused by moisture. The best possible installation substrate is a rendered mortar plane but those skills are disappearing and the labor costs exceed what you would pay for a cement board installation.
Don't try to re-think the manufacturer's installation recommendations. Too often, a little ingenuity can get a person into a whole LOT of trouble. They pay people to break their systems, and to test their systems, and to track the performance of their systems. It's in the manufacturer's interest to recommend the best possible application of their products and if a "higher number of joints" were an actual problem they would address that in their processes.
Best of luck,
Shaughnn

Thanks Shaughn;

I like your backing idea - I'll do it. Actually, Laticrete lists exterior glue plywood as a suitable substrate for Hydro Ban, (interior applications only, which I assume includes a shower but maybe not), though I understand that it's not ideal due to what you mentioned about differing properties of wood v. cementitious stuff. I'll go CBU and your backing idea.

Concerning a mud job, I know a tile guy in the biz since he was 13 and does mud jobs only. Recently, on one of his jobs the tile began to crack. It was determined by an expert that the mud had been too wet and so, contracted too much, breaking what was a particularly soft tile. Had the tile been stronger or the mud dryer, there would have been no cracking. Mud now scares me if that guy screwed it up.

Bill

Staceyneil (My Page) on Tue, Oct 12, 10 at 15:38
"How much more does Hydroban typically cost than Redguard? I found a place to order it on line for $70/gallon, free shipping "

What website is this for $70 includes shipping? Since the original post, any other online places you found selling for less?

I only found places $89 and higher.

Where are you finding it for $70 ???

OK, now I can't find the link :( Shoulda bookmaked it. Here's one for $69 but it looks like shipping is not included. I'll keep looking...
http://www.tilestoreonline.com/Waterproofing_s/135.htm

Here's $86 free shipping
http://www.shop.floorlife.com/category.sc?categoryId=3

Oh... here's where I got that info: Google shopping list says "free shipping" at TileStoreOnline. I have had that happen before and the store honored the "free shipping" part even though it does not say so on the actual product page. Worth a try asking them!!
http://www.google.com/search?q=hydroban&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbs=shop:1%2Cp_ord%3Ap&q=hydroban+laticrete&aq=f&aqi=m1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=8f193036726df4c7

I do not want to go through th trouble and the height problem of putting a floating floor over a first floor level concrete floor using 3/4 finished hardwood flooring for nailing the floor down. Would I be able to use i coat of hydroban and then float the floor? if so, should I still put something under the flooring? the cement is older construction 1988, and concrete shows no indication of moisture. I live in Indianapolis with varied humidity. Thanks, Joseph Williams

to joseph williams (jwkcm1978@hotmail.com),
open a new thread by posting the same question in an "open new thread" text box.

this thread is about something else.