Here's an article I just wrote comparing some of the top brands out there today: Wolf, Viking, Electrolux, Miele, and Bosch Review.

Each one of those models makes a double oven variant. If you were not happy with the KA, you might want to check out Electrolux, as they make appliances that are around the same price and (in my opinion) are of better quality.

Anthony
Appliance Buyer's Guide

Anthony

I know it probably varies with location, but what can you tell us about service support on these varies lines?

Also, is that Miele "clean touch" coating something that will wear off after a while?

Thanks,
Gary

Miele services their own product themselves. So when you have an issue, you just call their 800 number. Wolf currently has some of their service run through independent servicers and some run through "dedicated" servicers. This is a bit confusing but basically Wolf/SZ was having issues with service in high-density areas like South Florida, Chicago, Atlanta, etc and so they started a program where they would just approach their best servicer in the area and offer to make them the sole servicer if they would drop their other brands. This made it so the servicers in those areas were entirely focused on SZ/Wolf products and always carried SZ/Wolf parts on them. This has changed service in these areas dramatically, and if you live in those areas you would notice the difference. They are in the process of rolling this out to more areas but right now unless you live in a few select cities and counties, their service is the same as Viking, Electrolux, or Bosch - independent service companies are chosen by the consumer and they come out to diagnose and repair the unit. This is a less than ideal solution and I think manufacturers are starting to take notice. Bosch is the worst though, they are notorious for being unhelpful to their users and many clients report services charging crazy money for parts and blaming Bosch, then Bosch blames the servicers, and it becomes a joke. The stand-out service-wise in that crowd is Miele. And hopefully other companies will follow suit.

As far as the "clean touch" coating, I can attest it works and is nice. Its been in effect for a good while now, though I don't know if it's been long enough to gauge if there is any problems - but I've not heard of one yet. I believe the coating is something akin to a invisible glaze and if it started to wear off you might not notice it, save for fingerprints becoming easily visible.

Hope that answered your questions,

Anthony
Appliance Buyer's Guide

Hi Applianceguide (Anthony) -so glad to see your post here!! In my research of wall ovens, I came across your website and appreciated the thorough review, but didn't comment (b/c I'd have to register etc.) .

Now that I see you here, I was wondering if you could give an opinion on the Electrolux Icon wall oven/microwave combo -- E30MC75JPS -- Have you seen any issues or complaints with it? I've seen no reviews of it, so have been thinking that I would have to rely on reviews of the single Icon oven. I guess there is always a concern that I'm compounding my risk of problems by getting a 2-in-1 unit, b/c if there's a failure it could impact both units... I'd love to get your thoughts.

I was thinking of the KA combo, but thanks to GW found Electrolux. Miele's a bit more than I wanted to spend. Thank you!

@bellacucina - thank you for reading our blog! And don't be afraid to register, we don't give out emails and are constantly having giveaways, letting our subscribers know in advance.

Anyway, concerning your question on the Electrolux Oven/Micro Combo unit, the reason there is no reviews of it is because it's a brand new unit for them. I've wanted to write my review of the product, but I haven't sold enough of them yet, so I have to wait to get some more feedback. The unit itself is just like the double wall oven, just a bit shorter. One WaveTouch control panel on top that controls both units. This application works well in homes where there is only one 240v line run, as this unit only needs one 240v connection. Are you compounding your risk? I don't think so. It is only slightly more risky to purchase this over an oven and micro separately. They are still two separate units, they just share a power supply and the control panel. So if something were to go wrong in one of them, it wouldn't effect the other.

Electrolux is a great brand, not all their products are perfect, but their ovens and micros are solid machines at very good prices.

Hope that helps,

Anthony
Appliance Buyer's Guide

Thank you Anthony! I will subscribe to your blog -- alot of great info there!! We're also shopping for dishwasher and fridge, but I think I've got those units nailed (KA KUDE and Liebherr).

I found out from my local appliance store (and then had called Electrolux to confirm) before getting your reply, that this Icon combo is indeed new. Looks like I'll be a 1st generation guinea pig on this appliance too (the other is the Capital Culinarian) - -but at least their predecessor units have good reputations!

Where I live (in Canada), Miele ovens (in fact, all their appliances) were far more expensive than the others you reviewed in this article. The Miele MasterChef double ovens were $1000 more than the Wolf L Series!
And, Miele tightly controls the pricing, to the point that the purchase is actually made directly to Miele, just through the store. The store has a special network just to process the sales of Miele products, which allows Miele to tightly control all pricing. I am not saying that it is not a great product, just that it was by far the most expensive of these choices.

Thanks for that, research queen! I had read Miele did that in Europe, and had asked Antss if they did that in the US, and never received an answer.(Maybe Anthony can answer that)?

Ya gotta admit (at least if it's like in Europe)--Where Miele supplies the Demo units (At Miele's Expense)(accordding to posts that I read), and not having to carry any inventory and associated expenses,---"It's a "Sweet Deal for the Retailer" but not maybe so sweet for buyers or especially those buyers that run into problems and their is no "Local Parts Inventory"?

I do have a Miele DW and I like it (bought it cause of top cutlery tray), I just hope it doesn't need parts or we will be hand washing for a while---well, to tell the truth we do that most of the time anyway, --but course would be a "Different Situation" were we to have one of their ovens, (which we don't).

Anyway, thanks for "Confirming my Suspicions",
research Queen.

Gary

I don't know why their products are that expensive in Canada. It doesn't make sense to me. Maybe Canada has higher tariffs on imports from Europe than for imports from the U.S.? I don't know. But that price is a far cry from here in the U.S.

In the U.S. Miele does price control their products, but so does just about every other high-end manufacturer (e.g. Wolf, Viking, SZ, Bosch, Thermador, etc.) I have no idea how they work their pricing in Canada or Europe. The dealer model doesn't work everywhere in the world.

Anthony
Appliance Buyer's Guide

Do the US Dealers have to pay for their Miele units they have on display in the US", and are all US Sales shipped directly from Miele, rather than the Dealer?
Thanks for the info, Anthony.

Gary

I don't know either Anthony!! It seems like everything is more expensive here!! Although the Miele double ovens were more expensive than the Wolf, they did come with a 10 year warranty (a promotion that they were offering during the month of september).
I guess it must be strange for you to hear me say that I chose the Wolf ovens because they cost less (including the purchase of an additional 6 year warranty).

chanag, back to your initial question - which kitchen aid double oven do you have? A friend of mine also had a lemon and kitchen aid recently replaced the entire unit for a brand new one. I know that she is much happier with the new unit. The problems that she had were related to self-cleaning (any time she would self-clean her oven, they would cease to work.) Is this similar to what you are experiencing?

dodge - I have no idea if the dealer has to pay for the display models but in one case I would think they did. I have had my eye on a display oven for quite some time - over a year probably. Now, it is part of closeout inventory. If the oven was provided by Miele wouldn't they just swap it out with model changes or take it back if they closed? Just wondering - not saying either way.

We do have to buy our display units just like any other. Sometimes we get a deal, just depends on what the unit is. Dealers can sell what they have on display if its been on display for some time and they can discount it if they want to, but it's a pain, since you have to take it out and deliver it out of the box and such so you wont find many places that will do it unless its a small and easy item (like a cooktop or micro or steam oven for instance). Refrigerators and bigger items you wont find them selling unless there's a new model out and they want to replace the unit. Its just too much trouble than it's worth.

Miele has its own U.S. branch, so the products are stocked here in the U.S. at different distribution centers. They are still made in Germany of course, they just ship giant cargo ships of the product over to the NJ port and from there they are trucked to the different distribution centers. Because of this, when Miele lauanches a new product in the EU, it takes a good year for it to be converted to U.S. voltage and then shipped over.

I know of some great products they have in Germany right now that we are waiting for in the U.S. - we will be waiting another 6 months or more though before they are launched here.

Anthony

Sorry, plumorchard, I keep "asking that question" and never get an answer. I guess I will go to "Pacific Sales" today, and ask them about it.

Good luck on getting your Display Model!

Getting back to the Op's original question, We see, (and we continue to see) many many posts of the KA ovens failing after self cleaning and "So Far", we see no evidence that this problem has been corrected. Usually it is a thermal fuse that blows after cleaning but we have seen numerous instances where the "Control Board" has been fried too. We see that on a few other ovens too and from research I have done, (Wolf, Miele and Elux) it seems more likely to occur with double ovens.
One poster on the appliance forum had mentioned that they did special venting for the cabinet that the ovens were installed in--and were I designing my kitchen for double ovens ___I would do that!!

Electrolux (in 2009) was having problems with their double ovens as compared to single ovens (Just do a search for "Electrolux Oven Reviews" on sites like AJMadison, Sears, CNet, Home Depot etc etc or one of the big sites like Buzillions or Amazon etc etc---and just "Count the Stars" You will see a lotta 5 stars for Elux Single ovens and a lotta single stars for their double ovens.

We have seen at least 3 posts that state Elux was aware of the problem and fixed it for the 2010 models--but it will take a while to acertain that the problem is solved.

You can use this "same technique", and an even better way is to google the Model Number you are interested in and then count the stars--try to find the sites where there are the most posts (IE 4 stars 12 users) etc etc.

Good luck on your hunt, I think if you use some of the techniques I outlined about, Your chances of repeating your "Unfortunate Experience" will be decreased!!

Good Luck!

Gary

I was tying out my post above, so I did not see your post.
I had been asking that question, for a long time and is nice to finally get the answer!!!!!

Gary

Apologies to OP - quick follow up -

Gary - won't be getting "that" floor model. The first time I went in it was $1700 then a few months later got an email that is was $8?? - (Can't remember exact price) but timing was not great to rush in right then and get it. (should have!) Last time I checked it was UP to $2600 which is just below the price for a new one. So something screwy going on there! Anyhooo....

I concur with the comment above that they all have good/bad reviews out there. I am looking for single ovens but a lot of the same brand names pop up at the stores. Wolf seems to get the most mentions. But, that just isn't a possible option for many. I asked yesterday about mid-range and was told to check Kitchen Aid and Dacor. I was asking about Bosch - told me Dacor was better. (For different reasons, I'm not interested in either KA or Dacor just passing along comments)

I did see the Fagor ovens in person this week. They have 24" that you can put side by side for a double? The seem to get great reviews but there are fewer out there. The 30" could be stacked too for doubles I guess.

I have Electrolux ovens, in for a little over two months and they are terrific. They bake very evenly, heat up quickly, and so far, I'm very pleased with their performance.

Cj

We have had a GE Monogram 27" double oven w/ convection for the last 5 years and really love it. I bake a lot and I have been really happy with the results I have gotten over the years. I don't know price-wise where it stacks up with the others, but it has served us well.

Just as an FYI, we did install it with no storage below, so we had plenty of room for a microwave above it (and it was not too high) plus room for a TV above that. It is one of the best things we did when we redid the kitchen!

Hope this isn't hijacking this thread, but here goes. If people think it's off topic, I'll start a separate thread.

We've been planning on putting in either Bosch or Thermador wall ovens in our new kitchen, but recently saw the Sears 50% off sale which happens to cover Kenmore Elite wall ovens. I know Kenmore Elite was top rated by Consumer Reports but wanted to get the thoughts of the appliance mavens on this board. The sale price on the Kenmore Elite double wall ovens is now in the $1500-$1900 price range which is nearly $1000 less than what appears to be a comparable Bosch oven. As such, I'd like to know people's thoughts as to whether there is a quality difference between the Bosch and the Kenmore Elite that would support that price difference (or, alternatively, whether the Kenmore is a screaming deal and better than the Bosch and something I should jump on to get).

Thanks in advance.

Oksans-

I've seen the sale you are talking about. The Kenmore Elite is rated high by consumer reports, I truly have no idea why. I don't think it should be the case, but CS is funky like that. The price on that Kenmore Elite at half off is very good. I believe that Kenmore Elite is actually made by GE for them and is the guts of a GE Profile, with different door styling. It's hard to tell as Kenmore is constantly switching who they get their products made by. Kenmore outsources everything for Sears, they make nothing. So when they do these sales it's always because they have just switched manufacturers and a new line is coming out.

That being said, for the 600+ dollars you can get that Kenmore on sale for, its a good price and unless cooking means a great deal to you, I would get it. Personally, if I were looking for a wall oven and had a limited budget I would go for the Electrolux ovens right now. They are around the same price as the GE Profile series, and IMO a better machine. But for 600+ dollars, that Kenmore is a strong draw. In regards to Bosch, the only Bosch that is near the same price as the Kenmore Elite or the Electrolux is the 300 series. It doesn't compare to the Electrolux in my opinion. And the higher end Bosch series are more expensive.

Hope that helps,

Anthony
Appliance Buyer's Guide

Anthony-

I was at Sears tonight looking at the new Kenmore Elite 4808, and the salesman said it was made by Electrolux. That's all the info I have, but I'd be interested in finding out if it's accurate. What do you think?

different drummer - it is my understanding (told by Sears too) that the Kenmore ovens are indeed made by Electrolux. Sounds like you are on the right track.

You may indeed be right about the Elite being made by Electrolux. I know they source from GE and Electrolux all the time. I was just going off the picture of the unit and it looked like the design of the GE Profile. In either case from the picture I can see on Sears.com of the unit it isn't based off off Electrolux's current oven model. Maybe that is the reason for the sale, perhaps they've updated the units to Electrolux's new platform. In any case, $650 for an new electric oven is an extremely attractive offer. No shame in buying that unit.

Anthony
Appliance Buyer's Guide

Thanks for your info, plumorchard. I just hope that means good things for the oven.

It wasn't a $650 oven they said was Electrolux, it was the one on sale for $1100. I don't know the looks of the diff. manufacturers, but these two seem very different from each other. As far as I can tell :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Kenmore Elite wall oven

Anthony,

Thanks for posting here. I have a question about the new E'lux Oven/Micro combination units. For some unknown reason the Icon series have racks that are 1" more shallow than the 'Ripa' ovens (14" vice 15"). Is this still the case on the new Icon Combi? Do yo know if the Ripa version of the Combi has the deeper racks? I'm considering this oven but I realize it is new and was hoping for some reviews before I purchase.

One last question, have you heard if E'Lux will make a 27" version of thier speed oven? I asked them several months ago and was told "no" That is the one thing that could change my plans if I could get their speed oven in the 27" width. I can't handle 30" without major carpentry work.

Thanks