Here is the link for quality issues that the sales person gave us:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1008252/wolf_appliances_issues_recall_97_people.html?cat=3

Sorry I forgot to post it in the previous message

a coworker just installed a 48" Wolf rangetop and loves it. Our 2 year old Wolf 36" rangetop has been perfect.

First of all the article your salesperson gave you is 2 years old and is about a particular recall.

The article about union issues is recent but it's a far cry from having contract disputes to actual sabotage.

Salesmen will say anything to get you to switch to a brand that they get more profit on - although Wolf/Subzero is usually one of them :-). I'm curious which dealers were you talking to?

I have a Wolf rangetop that's been working wonderfully for 2 1/2 years, and I find Wolf to be very supportive of their product. I have my 4th oven in that same 2 1/2 yrs...The first 2 were Fisher & Paykel, the next was GE Monogram, and now I have a Wolf, which has only been installed a few weeks, but already seems to be the clear winner. After the bad experiences, I researched and considered to the fullest extent I could. I was so impressed with the testing Wolf puts each appliance through before letting it leave the factory. I know that not all of their products are 100% perfect all the time, but I think one has a much better chance with a Wolf than with other manufacturers who seem to engineer their products on the fly, making changes and improvements only after hundreds of consumers have problems. I don't have money to throw around, so the Wolf pricetag was a little difficult to take...But I want value for my money...Something that will perform and last, and I believe, as I said, Wolf offers me the best chance at that.

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately I cannot disclose the dealers that I have been talking to on this website. But their references were given to me by Clarke's. I had gone to Clarke's thinking that they sell Wolf. They have one of the finest showrooms in Milford, MA but they are the main distributer and do not sell the actual appliances. They gave me a few cards that I called and later visited the dealers.

I am already sold on the SubZero ref, Wolf range top and the Wolf Oven. I think they are fine built appliances. I am not too impressed with their microwave oven. It looks crap from inside. Wonder why they did such a poor job of that. GE Monogram Advantium is a far superior Microwave oven in my opinion. So that is one thing I am not happy about from Wolf. Any suggestions about Microwave would be helpful.

Thanks,

The Wolf MW is most likely made by someone else and rebadged. Almost all MWs are made by Sharp, Panasonic and GE and are a lot cheaper than buying a rebadged one.

The Advantium is a speed oven, which is far more than a microwave. I have one. It's great. For just plain old microwaving my 20 year old Sharp countertop model from Costco did just as well. :) The Advantium does have a sensor though, which works really well. I've used it for popcorn and frozen vegetables. Both came out perfectly without any handling, guessing or adjustments. The Advantium is also a great spare oven type cooking space. :) I'm not as pleased with my results so far on the Speed settings, but I think that's because I'm more of a slow food person than fast, and I don't value the speed enough to think the results are good enough. That is, I have the hour and a half to roast a chicken, so the half hour or so to speed cook it to where it may be good but not as good doesn't move me. Sometimes I really do need the hurry, and have found the results passable, though not as good as.

I have a small Wolf cooktop. My electrician installed it exactly how it says not to in the instructions, and it stopped working. Rather than even asking me to check the installation first--which I easily could have done and found out that it was a wiring problem and not the short the electrician thought it was--Wolf sent a repairman. They wanted to be sure that everything in their unit was just fine even though they had to pay for an unnecessary service call.

I don't know anything about their employee relations, but that kind of service is almost unheard of nowadays.

Ditto weissman's comment about a salesmen saying anything to make a sale. There is a 'discount' appliance store near me which dropped Wolf/SubZero a year or two ago. They had been selling them for many years. When I asked the manager he explained that their quality had dropped. Now I see from their ads that they are now carrying them again. What - did they suddenly improve? I'm sure there was some other reason behind their decision which had nothing to do with quality.

I do think the Wolf microwave is a Sharp. I asked about that in my recent oven search.

I think the dealer (and cate's) is feeding you a "line" because THEIR relationship with the distributor has soured. Who knows why this is. Maybe the dist. is bad news, maybe dealer didn't sell enough to warrant further investment, maybe dist. had too much coming back because of idiot salespeople. Who knows.

Yes SZ/Wolf is having labor with their oldest ref. manuf. plant. But, they have already come to an agreement that works for both parties on the Wolf side. It seems that the old union just can't adapt and face the new realities of the current marketplace. They also have fridge manuf. taking place in AZ, and they get their ice maker from a different country and their micro is rebadged like weissman says.

So, even if there is sabotage going on, it'd be limited to a narrow section of the whole product line. A better approach would have been for the dealer to tell you they were dropping the line, and that if you purchased from them their might be a bit less service because they would no longer be a dealer. Warranties would still be honored by the manuf., but there'd be no relationship to leverage for your personal problem.

When we were buying appliances a few years ago I had a salesman tell me the same line about Wolf and they were not going to carry it anymore. What a pack of lies. They were being cut off!. They sold me terrible appliances and tried to push off returned appliances on me.(Insist on seeing the appliance come out of the box.) I have a Wolf range now and love it and it has been trouble free.

I have a Wolf 36" rangetop, double ovens, and warming drawer. I LOVE all of these appliances. They were installed in April and I have been thrilled with them ever since. I think that the comment about salesmen promoting whatever gives them the best commission is probably very true (unfortunately). Good luck with your decision.

I agree with others that these dealers likely have a soured relationship with their Wolf distributor - I've seen this before and a telltale sign is when store staff explain why they don't carry a manufacturer any more (or won't be in the near future). Unless you're reading of serious quality problems, the likeliest explanation is either they're being cut off or the manufacturer is moving the dealer to a less attractive wholesale price list (it's not uncommon for manufacturers to have 2 or more different lists - the most attractive going to their best/biggest retailers).

Wolf's cooking appliances are among the best and their service is sterling. Our local dealers have good relationships with their suppliers and the one I trust the most positively gushes about Wolf - as do the ones I don't really trust come to think about it...

The larger sabotage is the necessity (due to diminishing availability of lead solder compatible parts) of having to buy in to the European Greens contribution to civilization: RoHS. Avoiding tin whisker growth and attendant electronics failure without some lead in the solder is difficult, and I'm unaware of any process that can ensure the reliability formerly obtained from lead-based solders. Coatings like Paralene help, but high-reliability no-lead solder metallurgy seems to be a work in progress.

So, the next time you read of deaths from apparent random electronics failure, assume that it is just unfortunate collateral damage.

kas

Hi,
We are from Central Mass. and have had a Sub-zero 736TC refrigerator, a Wolf range top and double Wolf wall ovens for about 3 years now and thay are fantastic.
We are downsizing and can't take our applicances, we liked them so much we don't know what to buy as suitable replacements.
Clarke's is fantastic, the one closest to us is in Milford, MA, call first and they'll set you give you an appoitment to meet with someone who'll answer all your questions. Just too see the showroom is awesome, good luck!

We built our home and have been in about 3.5 years. We went with the 60 dual fuel Wolf range, both SubZ sbs fridge and undercounter wine fridge, the Wolf warming drawer and the Wolf microwave. All have performed perfectly with no repairs or warranty work, I would recommend them all.

I do understand your comment about the micro. I had that same thought when I saw it but I went with it due to the lay out of our kitchen, it had the best look (simple and black) for where it was to be located. I was also concerned about the black glass front and it does show more fingerprints than other micros we have had but we consider that a small price for "beauty". It actually has been one of our favorites micros ever as far as usage. We like it a lot, the features have been great. I think ours was built by Sharp as mentioned in one of the above posts.

I think salespeople are very motivated by manufacturers' incentives. Don't get sucked in. I have heard some real "sales pitches" over the years when either remodeling or building.

Good luck with your new appliances.

The best sales weasels ask YOUR needs and budget before recommending "the best" or "the cheapest" or whatever you come in asking for. Sometimes they just might not be able to meet your needs. Savvy ones realize that not everyone is a customer.

If you had enough doubt in your mind to post a question to a bunch of stranger for advice, then this is probably not someone you want to be doing business with. :)

Outlandish claims by dealers usually have a hidden story. Massive union sabotage definitely qualifies for outlandish. If I were you, I'd talk to your contact at the distributors and tell them what this guy said. Get their side of the story. Then talk to some other dealers in the area.

Good luck.

Canbon, here's what I would do:

1 - Stay far away from the dealer who told you that the Wolf line is rife with problems and that there is sabotage going on. The dealer is probably on a credit hold with the Wolf distributor and can't get product right now. I have been told that there are a bunch of dealers in the Clark region who are in this position. And the fact that they are giving you a 2 year old article from Associated Content (where anyone and everyone is an expert!) speaks volumes.

2- Yes Wolf/Sub has had labor probs at one of their plants but from what I've been told they are being resolved and in order for there to be some grand conspiracy to ruin products you would need ALOT of people involved...plus if we are talking about some grand conspiracy on GardenWeb right now, don't you think that Wolf would have known about this first and nipped it in the bud awhile ago?

3- If you visit any other dealer showrooms and you find them pushing you to one brand and disparaging another, take what they have to say with a grain of salt. Every line has plusses and minuses. A responsible dealer should illustrate both sides to you and then furnish you with enough information for you to make an educated decision. If they are pushing or badmouthing, walk. They are puppets to their spiff checks.

4- Amcook's advice about re-visiting the distributor showroom is solid. They won't push b/c they don't sell.

Wolf appliances are expensive, but they are built like friggin' tanks, they perform wonderfully, they look nice and they make a statement. Bottom line is that I have 100% confidence in the Wolf brand. So much so that if my mom or my wife asked me for new appliances, and knowing that I would be knocked upside the head if I steered them wrong, Wolf would be my #1 go-to brand. They rock!

Yes I have pretty much come to the conclusion that the dealer has some other motives. I have since moved on and have started talking to another reputed dealer in the area. I did call Clarke and they said that they were not aware of any problems (I did not expect them to say anything else anyway). I plan on revisiting them next week so that I can do some hands on their appliances. I read somewhere that since I am planning to go with sealed burners, they do not do uniform heating when heating pans with smaller base. I will take a new pan and go there to see how well it heats, etc.

Thanks again.

Glad to hear you found another dealer that seems more trustworthy. Wolf has semi-sealed burners which is supposed to be an improvement on the fully sealed. I don't have direct experience with this but others have reported it does help. When testing with small pans, look for heat loss up the sides. You'll feel lots of heat around the edge of the pot. That is heat that is wasted. Not only that, it will crack and melt handles over time and possibly burn hands.

For heat distribution, take a wide pan (like a saute or frying pan 12" or larger) and put a small around of water in it. Then look at where the bubbles form. That indicates where the heat is located. Also, swirl the water around. If you hear and see explosive sizzle when the water goes up the sides, then you've got heat escaping the sides. Small pots/pans will always have this problem but larger ones shouldn't. BTW, don't use cast iron cookware for this test since it will hide uneven heating. Cheap thin stanless cookware is actually the best to use for these types of tests.

Good luck.

Thanks amcook (who cooks in the morning?) for excellent advise on the pan selection and water bubble distribution. I will do that.

Regards

5 years ago I remodeled my kitchen and installed a SZ 650 and a 30" DF range. Both have worked flawlessly, without a single problem. I had some questions about how to operate some things and the SZ/Wolf telephone people were prompt, thorough, and provided all the answers I needed.

I would buy Wolf/SZ again, without hesitation. Excellent quality, looks and cooks/cools beautifully!

Wolf has the semi sealed burners on the AG, although it does not say that on the website, it does have the drip tray that would indicate that. The DF has the sealed burners.
I have the Wolf DF and the burners fit bigger pans better, but there is one smaller burner for pans 6 inches and smaller diameter. The simmer on all the burners is great.
Cooking with mostly small pans would be a definite reason to consider a star shaped burner or even reconsider the need for bigger burners at all. I have heard it said on this forum that you can cook with cheap pans on a star shaped burner and the pan will heat evenly. If you wish to test the burners, cast iron is a poor conductor of heat and will generally heat unevenly. This is not a bad thing and makes them great for searing. If you have some pretty good heat conductive pans, then you won't have a problem with a Wolf, at least I don't. I have some AC, some of the earliest Revereware(has a heavy copper bottom), some misl triply, some deBuyer carbon steel pans and some cast iron.

Here is a chart that compares heat conductivity of various metals.

Here is a link that might be useful: chart

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/wolf-ovens-class-action-lawsuit-alleges-self-cleaning-defect/

I have decided not to go with Wolf due to the unresolved issues of the self cleaning oven not working correctly. Maybe the issue is resolved, although I have not read that it has been.