As for outside temps, my 48" rnb does get hot on some exterior surfaces when run at high temps. I have never measured the temps, but it is hot enough that you would not be able to stand any more than about 1 second exposed to skin. My RNB is older (circa 08) with the orginal circa 08 door as well. I do believe the current v1's will be less hot.

The only places you may find some rough edges is in the bowels of the stove top when you have it apart cleaning every nook and cranny. As for a small child getting cut, I would put that rumour behind you. I would suspect that newer versions are even better than mine.

As for the small oven capacity. Yes the culinarian has the smallest capacity of the 3. It would be way too small for me. The trade off is lower outside temps.

I do not know anything about the american range, but on paper it seems to be a hit. I would say the biggest disadvantage (on paper) is it doesn't come in 48 or 60 inch versions. It also is some real eye candy too. A little more polished than the BS, but doesn't really loose too much of the industrial feel that pro style ranges were originally targeting and capital is way off on.

Uhh - Industrial? The American looks real close to a CC and the BS looks a bit more angular but have you been in restaurant supply house recently? None of these look as industrial as a restaurant grade range. And why? The restaurant range only has to perform, looks are meaningless. In my home I'd like a range that performs well, but looks decent also. Any of these fit that. Oven size - are they really that much different? What is .1 or .2 cubic ft? Maybe it matters - that's for you to decide. I'd want to try out the ranges, especially the American first. There's enough CC & BS people here fighting it out to safely say 'These are quality products that inspire loyalty'. Not having studied an AR, I couldn't say.

Hi Mr. Evs,

Here is my oven temperature as measured at 350 degrees for 2 hours:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55480023@N04/6335163911/

There are no "sharp" edges, i.e. unfinished metal that will cut you. It's all properly polished.

However, there are some pointy corners:

What all this means to you and your family is up to you. Many here report, including me, having both large families (multiple kids, dogs, cats, etc) and Bluestar ranges while none has reported any "incidents" with the aforementioned oven temps or corners.

I feel that the Bluestar is much more industrial looking, compare it to a commercial Garland:

You have to decide if you prefer that look or the more rounded look of the CC. The BS is up on feet like a commercial range while the CC is not. There again, some people have a real preference for one or the other.

Hope that helps.

-Stooxie

I think looks are often the deciding factor when it comes to a choice between a BS or a CC. They are both very close and will satisfy 99.99% of the cooks out there. The BS has a more commercial look and the CC has a more curved refined look- it really depends on what you prefer.

I have an open burner 30 inch all gas Viking range that I have had for nearly 10 years. I kept the range for my remodel.

I added a second oven: a miele speed oven. I am SO glad to have that second oven. The Miele works as a microwave oven also. Because of its versatility, I did not have to devote more room for appliances. In smaller kitchens, these few inches here and there make a big difference. I cook alot for my family of 4. I like the way ranges cook: cooktop to oven for meats, for example. If I had an infinite budget and space, I would do a range PLUS a wall oven.

I have never wanted a larger oven. I rarely cook something that requires a HUGE oven. however, I found that having the second oven really gives me alot of versatility of what i can do. (multiple different oven temps) You may consider adding a second smaller electric oven.

FWIW: Some find the CC handle curved and refined... I find the curved oven handles and on the pull out trays on the CC look really cheap to me. They look like the handles that you would see on $1000 ranges, ie GE profile, for example. This is my bias. Others like them very much. I simply cannot get past the handles on the CC because I dislike them for myself. It is really a personal preference but you have to look at these things when you are shelling out that much money. You have to LIKE the look, no matter what it is. There is no right or wrong on these.

BTW, I don't know about BS, but with my Viking, I can hide the feet with a toe kick. The ranges are designed such that the bottom of the oven perfectly lines up with the line of toe kick. I am sure you can do the same with BS.

Kaismom- Have you seen the handles in person? There is no sub $5000 range on the market with handles as substantial as the CC handles. I'm not saying they are better or worse than another high end company, but no cheap range has ANYTHING close. They are meaty, thick and solid. The only main difference from some other big names is they curve into the range vs a blunt end.

ratflinger: you are so way off base that I am seriously wondering if you were coherent when you wrote that post? You honestly think the BS star looks far off of an industrial range? Do you honestly have the nerve to stand behind that statement? It pretty much looks like it was lifted right off the restaurant floor and fitted with a window in the oven door. Have you been in a restaurant supply house, like ever? The American Range does not look anything like any Capital I have ever seen. It looks more like a polished BS. The Capital looks, for lack of a better word, obese. It doesn't look professional, and it doesn't look residential. It is caught between two worlds. Hey, to each their own.

Put on your specs and take a look at the picture stooxie posted.

And for oven capacity, the 30" capital can not take full size sheets, or two half sheets, and I think that would be important to a whole lot of people.

>> I'd want to try out the ranges, especially the American first. There's enough CC & BS people here fighting it out to safely say 'These are quality products that inspire loyalty'. Not having studied an AR, I couldn't say.

That is the only thing in that post that made sense.

The Capital looks, for lack of a better word, obese.

Tyguy,

Not that long ago you complimented me for being measured, non-confrontational, and helpful. Now you want to start a BS/CC flame war? :) I do agree,in the 30" size, the BS is better looking because the BS looks commercial while the CC looks "residential."

And for oven capacity, the 30" capital can not take full size sheets, or two half sheets, and I think that would be important to a whole lot of people.

Oven door temps are far more important to me. But I have come to accept the BS clan contention that fitting a full-size commercial sheet is a non-negotiable feature for some.

But hey,I got a 36" CC so I can have a cool door AND fit a full-size commercial sheet. And better proportions fitting the design IMO.

Go see the BS and CC in person. Compare:

How easy to to take apart and clean.

Oven cavity

Simmer. (CC does not have a simmer burner)

I have a Blue Star. I chose it over the CC because I wanted the Garland burners, felt the top was easier to take apart and clean, wanted rolling racks and a non-self clean oven (you cannot get rolling racks on the CC unless you also get the self clean oven). I also just preferred the looks of the BS. I am very happy with it.

When I was deciding between the BS and the CC, my only hesitation was with the looks of the handles, both on the oven door and the drip trays. I didn't think the handles looked cheap, because the curve was only on the ends and not the bar, like GE Profile, Maytag, etal. I thought it looked too residential. Capital was offering the angular ends and I might have gone in that direction. But the more I went around looking at handles, the more I realized all the commercial imitators out there from GE Cafe/Monogram to Jenn-aire to DCS and even Viking and Wolf. But none of these were anywhere near commercial. They just looked commercial.

The Capital on the other hand while looking more residential was very much commercial on the inside. That's what mattered most to me. I've come to realize that those curved ends are a signature of Capital, like red knobs are to Wolf. Those curved ends have grown on me and I'm thankful every time I bump into those rounded ends. I still hate those drip tray handles. So I replaced them with the same handles that I have on my cabinets. I think it looks great now.

I just ordered a CC yesterday. I had it narrowed down to BS or CC. BS was price protected with only 1 dealer locally 60 miles away. I am yet to hear from them if the price could be lowered any. The lack of response doesn't give me confidence in them. Anyway, the decision was made easier after I looked at the CC in person and was able to get the CC $1600 cheaper than the price I was quoted on the BS. I'm sure I will be happy with the CC since I now have a drop in builders gas cooktop.

The lack of response doesn't give me confidence in them

You chose the cheaper range and you have every right to do that, but no manufacturer is under obligation to negotiate on an individual basis. The analogy is me calling BMW North America to see if they'll give me a better price than the local dealer. Just doesn't work that way and I am 100% positive I would not get a response from such a request. I could go out and buy the Ford just to "show 'em" but then I live with the choice and what it brings.

My point isn't to say whether their business model is something you should accept, but rather that "confidence" in a company really shouldn't be based off their willingness to drop their price/pants. I've seen plenty of times where that is a very good contraindicator.

Reminds me of the old saying, cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Either way, enjoy your range!

(Before people fire up the flamethrowers, I'm not saying Ollie made the wrong choice, just that he made a choice based on certain factors that were important to him.)

-Stooxie

"When I was deciding between the BS and the CC, my only hesitation was with the looks of the handles, both on the oven door and the drip trays. I didn't think the handles looked cheap, because the curve was only on the ends and not the bar, like GE Profile, Maytag, etal. I thought it looked too residential. Capital was offering the angular ends and I might have gone in that direction. But the more I went around looking at handles, the more I realized all the commercial imitators out there from GE Cafe/Monogram to Jenn-aire to DCS and even Viking and Wolf. But none of these were anywhere near commercial. They just looked commercial."

Jscout, you've got me scratching my head. You started off by talking about the difference between the CC and BS in terms of looks and then then continued by only talking about the difference between CC and everyone else besides BS.

I did some Googling and I couldn't find a single commercial range that looks anything like the CC's rounded handles on either the oven or the drip tray. Every commercial range also is on raised feet which is a requirement. I just don't see how there can be any question about which range, between the CC and the BS, is the one that looks most like an actual commercial range. Bluestar's features match any number of "real" commercial ranges.

The CC has clearly been designed to have a softer and more residential look which many find to be very appealing. It's a good move that is obviously addressing a market. However, typecasting it back into a commercial design just doesn't add up to me.

-Stooxie

I agree with Stooxie. In my mind you have several types of "Pro" ranges.

1) Pro style Ranges, which basically means a big stainless steel box with black knobs and sealed burners, anything from a Maytag to a Wolf.

2) Pro ranges,

Bluestar..... Cooks / functions like a pro range and looks like a Restaurant range.

Capital Culinarian..... Cooks / functions like a pro range with a softer look for the home.

Both CC and BS stand head and shoulders above the rest from a cooking perspective due to the open burner concept, anyone who has actually cooked on a CC or BS knows this to be true, reason... they were both designed to cook like a "pro range".

When we were choosing vendors, lack of timely response was also a factor for us. We often went with vendors who said 'no' to a price discount request or were more expensive than others -- the more important factor was that they were responsive to questions. Not responding often means they don't want you as a customer (for whatever reason, maybe reasonable). I'm not going to force myself on someone who doesn't want my business, that would be unwise.

@Stooxie - I just re-read my post and realized that it may have come across a bit fragmented. The perils of trying to type a long response on an iPhone. But then again, you might have thought I was trying to pick a fight with BS and that's far from it. I'm in the open burner camp vs. sealed burner camp and not BS camp vs. CC camp.

What I was trying to say was exactly what Trevor summarized. Other than the BS and the CC, every other range, including Wolf and Viking are nothing more than posers. While the CC might not look the part, it's is every bit as good as touted.

Of the two, between BS and CC, the CC has a very unique look. Whereas with a BS, folks who don't know what it is confuse it with the other brands, most notably Viking.

For me, I started off less enamored with the looks of the CC due to it's uniqueness. But it grew on me. After cooking on it and realizing what it can do, it's actually become quite attractive, especially after changing the handles on the drip tray and the grill cover. It's a smokin' hot range, literally.

Thanks so much for the responses from everyone very helpful. I hope I haven't started a CC v BS flame war.
Special thanks to Stookie for linking to the temperature video - Your BS looks amazing btw.

I went to see the BS, AR and CC today with my better half. She was really concerned about the angled corners on the BS, and the reputed high heat on the door so I think - much my dissapointment that that is off the shortlist. I still feel the CC oven has a small height, but love the burners. The AR just looked strange with the grates really high above the burners and finish did not seem as good as the BS or CC - so I think that is off the shortlist. Still not seen any reviews of the AR either. The other range my wife liked was the Thermador pro harmony, that has a larger height oven, but has sealled burners. Anyone have any thoughts on the overall perfomance of this range compared to a CC?

Trevor - do you have 30" CC in your store that is hooked up? I would love to see one in action and potentially try it out.

We have the 48" live and a 30" on the shop floor. You are more than welcome to come and see the unit and of course cook on the live unit.

As for the question about the Thermador vs CC, open burners will always win over ANY sealed burner with ease, you should also note that if you are like most other customers you will do at least 85% of you cooking on the top of the range.

If you do come to see these units you should measure the height of the Thermador prior to your visit for direct comparison.

Thermador 30" Oven W 25" D 18 7/8" H 16 1/4
Culinarian 30" Oven W 24" D 21" H 14

"Anyone have any thoughts on the overall perfomance of this range compared to a CC?"

Both CC and BS stand head and shoulders above the rest from a cooking perspective due to the open burner concept, anyone who has actually cooked on a CC or BS knows this to be true, reason... they were both designed to cook like a "pro range".

Ditto

Stooxie, You didn't read my post very well. I didn't call the Manufacturer and ask for a better price. I spoke with the dealer. Are you telling me you never ask for a better price and always pay whatever is quoted? I certainly do not.

Mrs evs: The capital will give you a whole lot more power on the stovetop. I suppose the Thermador will have a larger oven but I am not 100% certain on that either. If the BS has been ruled out, I would go for a CC over a thermador. Pretty much everyone on this forum will agree to that. This forum is a CC/BS dominated place.

>> Not that long ago you complimented me for being measured, non-confrontational, and helpful. Now you want to start a BS/CC flame war? :) I do agree,in the 30" size, the BS is better looking because the BS looks commercial while the CC looks "residential."

You are absolutely right Dee. Sorry, I should have tried harder to find a less offensive word. We will say it looks big boned! :) My compliment to you still stands, and you are better than me in that particular area. I mean that statement, it is not intended to be sarcastic. You are one of the least biased posters on this entire forum. (keep in mind I am saying least biased, that does not mean NO bias)

I just find that there is a double standard on this forum. The CC camp can say pretty much anything they want, no matter how asinine. They can come on here and claim that it is the superior range which it absolutely, unequivocally is not. They can come on here and show the amazing things they did on their rotisserie (which is fine by me, in fact just makes me want the rotisserie more lol), but when stooxie posts a picture of him simmering butter he is accused of everything evil under the sun, and when he shows a VIDEO of outside temps of his oven, people say it means horsecrap because its stainless steel blah blah even tho his range is clearly powder coated.

>>Of the two, between BS and CC, the CC has a very unique look. Whereas with a BS, folks who don't know what it is confuse it with the other brands, most notably Viking.

I agree 100%. The BS is much more similar to other pro style ranges in terms of looks, particularly Viking. Capital is kind of on its own, with DCS(I wonder why) and Thermador probably being the closest look. Probably a smart call on Capitals part as not everyone will like the commercial look of BS and all of the other ranges that look similar.

>>FWIW: Some find the CC handle curved and refined... I find the curved oven handles and on the pull out trays on the CC look really cheap to me. They look like the handles that you would see on $1000 ranges, ie GE profile, for example. This is my bias.

I wouldn't go as far as to say they look cheap, but I don't find them pleasing on a pro style range. They are also very hard to match up with on other appliances. Most brands "pro" lines have linear handles similar to BS. I know that isn't important to everyone, but having been in the interior design field, matching up the "look" of your appliances while still getting a good product is one of many things that sets apart a professionally designed kitchen from a DIY job.

You are absolutely right Dee. Sorry, I should have tried harder to find a less offensive word. We will say it looks big boned!

I have always preferred the Anna Nicole Smith look to the Kate Moss type. :)

heehee...gotta admit, I don't mind curvy either :)

I wouldn't go as far as to say they look cheap, but I don't find them pleasing on a pro style range. They are also very hard to match up with on other appliances. Most brands "pro" lines have linear handles similar to BS. I know that isn't important to everyone, but having been in the interior design field, matching up the "look" of your appliances while still getting a good product is one of many things that sets apart a professionally designed kitchen from a DIY job.

And here are the matching drawer pulls. I think it ties in nicely.

And here are the matching drawer pulls. I think it ties in nicely.

God bless America and the diversity of tastes! :)

I wouldn't have done that in a million years (i.e. do something to make my range blend in with the cabinetry) but I have to say it's kind of cool that you could do it.

Did the holes just happen to match up or did you need to drill/modify?

-Stooxie

The holes are pretty standard at 5 inches on center. Capital probably sourced their handles from one of the major hardware manufacturers. I've seen their pulls in Richelieu, Hafele and Amerock catalogs.

At least I don't have those ugly old handles anymore. I suppose I could have gone chrome. But hey, at least I didn't throw hover lights under it and mount it on hydraulics!

God bless America and the diversity of tastes! :)

I wouldn't have done that in a million years (i.e. do something to make my range blend in with the cabinetry) but I have to say it's kind of cool that you could do it.

Not just America.

{{gwi:1494037}}

deeageaux, that's the reverse! That's making cabinetry look like the range! That's totally allowed! :)

-Stooxie

"I hope I haven't started a CC v BS flame war."

Sadly, tyguy has a habit of those aggressive posts. They spoil many otherwise good threads; I really wish he would stop doing it.

"the angled corners on the BS, and the reputed high heat on the door [...] off the shortlist"

I think that is a shame. I really do not think the angled corners are a significant hazard, and the newer models of BS seem to have improved doors that are better insulated.

IMO, the BS oven is somewhat superior to the CC oven. In particular, the BS roll-out racks are very smooth and very sturdy, and they come all the way out; the CC ones are nasty and only come out half way. If I were buying a range (we plan on getting a rangetop), I would eliminate the CC for that, even though I love rotisseries.

I like the styling of both the CC and BS. Each has its own personality; both look like serious pieces of equipment. Right now, I have no idea which we will end up buying.

ratflinger: you are so way off base that I am seriously wondering if you were coherent when you wrote that post? You honestly think the BS star looks far off of an industrial range? Do you honestly have the nerve to stand behind that statement? It pretty much looks like it was lifted right off the restaurant floor and fitted with a window in the oven door. Have you been in a restaurant supply house, like ever? The American Range does not look anything like any Capital I have ever seen. It looks more like a polished BS. The Capital looks, for lack of a better word, obese. It doesn't look professional, and it doesn't look residential. It is caught between two worlds. Hey, to each their own.

tvguy - I take offense. Nowhere did I attack you or whatever range you have chosen. Whether one range looks more 'industrial' or not is in the eye of the beholder and yes - I go to restaurant supply houses frequently. The BS does look more industrial than the CC or AR, but it has a more refined look than a true commercial range. So I guess I just insulted you again. Sorry, go piss up someone elses tree.

jscout: I was actually referring to the challenge of matching other appliance handles to the Capitals. I was trying to get across that despite the more residential look, the Capital is not an interior designers favorite look as it can be a challenge to work with. I do like what you did tho with the matching drawer pulls. Love your soapstone too! (VERY good choice) :)

peterh2: Sadly, tyguy has a habit of those aggressive posts. They spoil many otherwise good threads; I really wish he would stop doing it.

Ya, you better find a mirror. You and I both know why you posted the above. I hit a nerve. I did not post names in this thread on purpose because I did not want to single people out. And will leave it at that, but I will call you on some of your aggressive behavior on here if you continue to attack me.

ratflinger: tvguy - I take offense. Nowhere did I attack you or whatever range you have chosen.

No you didn't attack my range per se, but your post was pretty condescending towards me no? However I do apologize *IF* I did read the tone wrong. Also, you have in the past said some of the harshest statements towards BS that I have read on this forum. I will stop there, unless you want me to quote?

Dee: That pic you posted I think is gorgeous. Most certainly not my style, but it is obvious that a professional designed that.