You've got some cross purposes here. You want the informal family spaces to be at the rear with southern exposure, yet you want a covered porch and patio. You want no "wasted spaces" yet you want a formal dining room, butler's pantry,"large" mudroom, and clerestory windows in a large central staircase with some switchbacks that end up needing more space than a single straight run. A 4000 square foot "craftsman" is also an oxymoron. And that's a lot of the whole list. If you pick Option A, then it automatically precludes Option B.

It would be better to state your goals in a functional manner, rather than as a list of specific items. "I want a home that has the most lived casual family spaces to have a lot of natural light." "I want a family entry that provides organized storage for each family member."

You can't see the forest for the trees because you're too busy picking out if you want oak trees or maple trees. Become more generalist in your stated goals rather than so specific, and then let an architect provide the specifics.

"...3,000 to 4,000 square feet, the smaller the better..." This size house is not really "small", but your stated spaces place a house design in this range, in all probability.

Depending on your region, construction costs alone may be $100/SF and up (way up depending on urban locations). Some more rural locations may be less than $100/SF, but I'd not hold my breath in hopes of such a lower figure.

The plan you have picked is very inefficient, duplicative and includes many of the currently "glam" features that seem so appealing on the surface to prospective home owners. Fact is, the plan is huge, expensive and the overall proportions (depth to width) are such that it will appear to be bulky and oversized due to the roof span requirements. I think, from the photo, this house may set the record for the number of roof gables used on a single elevation!

You are at a crossroads and have the following reasonable choices:

1. Continue to search for the "perfect" stock house plan and just go with it, not needing an architect, just get a building permit and builder, or

2. Forget the floor plan search, put all your time and energy into developing: 1) a list of "needs"/must-have criteria for you new house; 2) a list of desirable "wants"/ nice-to-haves for you new house; 3) a dimensioned summary of furniture and other critical equipment to be reused, and lineal feet of closet/storage space, and thereafter

3. Find an experienced architect with residential designs similar to your budget and site, and work out the services and fees to design a house, based on 2 above. You may call the closest office of The American Institute of Architects for referrals of architects who are experienced in your type of project.

Taking a stock floorplan to an experienced architect is like taking coals to Newcastle. It wastes everyone's time and patience (and money).

Good luck with your project.

I realize the clerestory is "wasted" space, but the others are spaces that will be used daily. But I think I get what you're saying...

We'd like a separation of private and public spaces.
I'd like the entry that our family uses to be hidden from sight and large enough to handle the clutter of many little boys coming and going often.
I'd like a lot of light throughout the house.
We'd like to have a space to eat meals, everyday, with our family away from distractions.
We'd like to have our bedrroms in close proximity to our young children, and stay close to them as they grow.
We'd like a space on the main floor for our elderly parents to stay when they come to visit, which is pretty often, monthly.
Most lots that we've looked at require at least 3200 sq ft. for a 2- story.
We'd like a space outdoors that we can use year round, and we can watch our boys play, have family rest while we play
We need a dedicated home office, where the children won't be tempted to run into, through

Is this better? I was too specific?

Are you sure you posted the correct link for the plan that works the best? The house in the link has 2750 sq ft on the first floor, 2500 sq ft on the second floor and 1340 sq ft on the lower floor. That doesn't meet your criteria of 3000 - 4000 sq ft.

Yes Virgil, that's how I feel a out the plan as well. We've been looking at plans for ideas, but we do indeed need to focus on our wants and needs as live wire pointed out. I'm struggling with the number of bedrroms and how to make it smaller... but I guess that's for the architect to figure out.

We've looked very briefly at some local architects, but nothing too in depth. We both really dig the work coming out of Visbeen Architects in Grand Rapids, but are wondering if we should be looking for a smaller, more local (we're on the east side of MI) architect to work with.

I guess I'm looking for reassurance that finding and working with a stock plan to create the house we're looking for just isn't likely to happen. We're not in agreement about how to go about creating the plans for our new home. BIL used stock plans altered by builder and hubby is looking at that option as THE option. We're both nervous about hiring an architect and how it would eat at our budget. We have some leeway with lots as there is a very wide variance in price of desirable areas, so we're hoping that we could go with the lower cost lot and hire an architect.

Dekoboe, yes, thats a gi-normous house... thats part of the problem. Its one of the only stock plans weve found that has what we're looking for...but it has a lot more too! I dont count the basement in the sq ft. But we will have one

I guess I'm looking for reassurance that finding and working with a stock plan to create the house we're looking for just isn't likely to happen. We're not in agreement about how to go about creating the plans for our new home. BIL used stock plans altered by builder and hubby is looking at that option as THE option. We're both nervous about hiring an architect and how it would eat at our budget. We have some leeway with lots as there is a very wide variance in price of desirable areas, so we're hoping that we could go with the lower cost lot and hire an architect.

Dekoboe, yes, thats a gi-normous house... thats part of the problem. Its one of the only stock plans weve found that has what we're looking for...but it has a lot more too! I dont count the basement in the sq ft. But we will have one

L, said, "...I don't count the basement in the SF, but we will have one..."

L, whether or not you have a basement is obviously up to you, but it certainly is a building expense to excavate and build a basement, together with the waterproofing and proper footing and site drainage (and all of the interior systems and finishes), as compared with not having a basement and building with a slab on grade.

Whatever you choose, it all adds up to the square footage of the house times whatever the local building costs may be. So you can't really not count the basement area as part of your occupied and heated/cooled area.

FWIW, it may be more economical to build slab on grade and to build occupied space in the attic, since a house with a pitched roof is likely to have some attic area inherently.

Just a thought, and I realize that there are many regional customs/preferences for houses, for example, it's common in my part of Pennsylvania, outside Philadelphia, for many houses to have "walk-out" basements due to the rolling terrain features. It's a nice feature.

That may be, but there are cheaper approaches if cost is an issue. If that's the case, choosing a flatter lot and slab-on-grade construction would certainly be more economical than an excavated and properly finished basement.

Good luck with your project.

While part of any professional's job is to merge together spouse's differences in vision, it's never ideal to begin a process with two people on completely different pages. And it sounds as though some threshing out of what your shared goals for the house might be before you approach any professional.

It does sound as though your hubby might need a bit of a reality dose if you've been looking at 8000 square foot plans with the idea of "just" making it smaller. It doesn't work that way. Or at least it doesn't work that way if you want to build something both functional and visually pleasing.

You do have a pretty long wish list, especially considering your goal is a 3000 square foot house. Have you looked at buying existing rather than building? It's still a buyer's market in so much of the US right now and lots of people are finding that buying something existing is signficantly cheaper than building right now. That's a pretty important consideration, especially if you don't have a robust budget. Even if you haven't found what you want existing and would still like to build, I think you would benefit from touring homes on the market that are in your stated size range so that you can get a feel for the amount of space you are talking about.

lethargo - We are in West MI so have been browsing the GR area for architects as well. Here is one we were going to look into come spring. Just thought I'd throw it out there in case you hadn't seen it. We have not made contact yet so I don't have any first hand knowledge to offer. Most of the people we know that have built went builder/architect route or like your BIL. We are hoping to do a lot of DIY and part GC so we are avoiding those routes.

We also went through a ton of stock plans and realized that there was no 'perfect' one so have decided to go the architect route. I think we will be better served that way and we will have to just set aside money for it before we even start to build. I think if you have too many modifications to a stock plan it can open up way too many opportunities for miscommunication. Just my own fears I guess.

Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Grand Rapids area Architect

I could be wrong, but he doesn't look like an architect from his web site, or he would legally be able to say so. Appears to be a draftsperson/designer who works with builders. I could be wrong, and you can certainly ask.

Good luck with your project.

Thanks Virgil. I was hesitant to post that as I couldn't readily tell but he did go into some detail on plans he provides so I thought he likely was? I will ask that question when the time comes.

Sorry to OP - my intention isn't to send you down a wrong path.

This post was edited by Autumn.4 on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 19:23

Hi Lethargo, I'm not usually on this forum, but happened to stop in today. (I usually stick to Kitchens.) I just found this site, and it made me think of your list of plan qualifiers. The Stillwater Craftsman layout has many of the things you are looking for, and is just over 2000 sq. ft. without including the bonus space over the garage. The company also has a lot of other nice looking plans, so perhaps something might catch your eye.

My initial thoughts were to convert the downstairs office into a guest room (or dual function the room??) and use the attic space over the attached garage for additional bedroom/office space. Or put your office in the basement if you build on a sloping site that would support a walkout??

Hope some of this helps.

-Amy

Here is a link that might be useful: Stillwater Craftsman plan by Simply Elegant Home Designs

We're building 4 bedrooms up, and I know it's frustrating to try to find plans that don't have a main level master. I was procrastinating and found a plan that meets a lot of your criteria in 3800sq. ft. It does have a main floor master, but there's a second master upstairs.

Here is a link that might be useful: another house...

Why would anyone build a house with a master suite on the ground floor, comprising almost 25% of the footprint of the house on the ground level, when the goal (if I understand it correctly) is to have the master and other BRs together on the second level? Why duplicate such large amounts of expensive space on two levels?

Seems like going in the wrong direction to me, but perhaps not?

VirgilC, I hadn't even considered slab, EVERY house here seems to be on a basement. Would that make it easier to insulate?

Live wire, I think hubby is more interested in finding a plan that works than shrinking one to fit. We have looked at some houses, and are less than impresses at what we've been shown. Really old inefficient houses that seem to wander about, oversized mcmansions that lack warmth and originality. The size never seems right.. I feel like Goldilocks! Our last home we were very pleased with, a bought stock builder house. 2100sq ft, 4 BD, 2.5 bath, we finished the basement. We're now in a 1920, 2000 sqft, 3bd, 2 bath, with a finished walkout basement- our 'starter' house that we've never sold. Although it's nearly the same size as the last house, the layout is stifling and we're outgrowing the home as I type... I realize I have a list of 'needs', but that comes mainly from the search engines used to peruse the thousands of stock plans.

Autumn, We're in Metro Detroit so I was looking for someone more local. Ive searched the AIA and found the listing of only 4 offices within a 40 min range...I find this odd, and have been meaning to contact them directly for more information. Thank you for sharing though!

Amy, thank you for sharing too. I'm dont think that plan would work for us. We need to stay closer to the 3200 sq ft min. required by the housing developments in the local area.

Zone 4, Thanks for sharing! Again though, not quite. Need the laundry up, once youve had that youll always want it. And washing the amount of cloth diapers that I do gives a real appreciation! Also, the dining needs to be closed from the other areas. Im a very messy cook, and I dont like to be reminded of the cleanup efforts to come while enjoying my meal. Also, there can be NO way to be enticed by the tv. We sit down to eat every morning and evening, and many lunches as well, as a family. The boys do much better when there isnt anything to distract them from eating. And the hubs and I really enjoy that time to unwind and talk with the kids and each other. I think that maybe with some shufflung of rooms it might work.

I'd really like an actual mud Room, not a hallway where things are dumped.

I think I need to work with DH to better define what we're looking for in a broader sense. I'm now worried that we'll freak out an architect if we walk in with a book of wants and needs!

VirgilC, many homes are becoming multi generational. Parents moving in as opposed to living in a "community". This maybe the reason for multi-master plans.

Leth, I understand and support that many families may have an older generation parent(s) living with them, but that doesn't take or mean a huge master suite is necessary.

Of course, if money is no object, then there's no need for reasonable moderation.

lethargo, I'm in SE Michigan, and designed our house (we were owner-builders--and I'm glad that this is the only house I will ever design!), but it took me several years and LOTS of time. I looked at 100s of houses and house plans during that time, and you should easily be able to fit all that you want in 3200-3500 sf.

We tried to find a stock plan that we could modify, but the nature of our lot precluded that route. Since it sounds like you don't have a lot yet, you're pretty much wasting your time looking at plans, until you know exactly what you're planning for. The lot and location of neighboring houses will determine many aspects of your house.

Many people are tuned in to the advantages of south-facing lots, so good luck on finding one. We wanted to build having passive solar features, but the lot that we fell in love with has the back facing NW! We made it work in lots of other ways, since there are also beautiful views to the SE & SW, but the biggest disadvantage is that we have some larger windows on the NW than is ideal.

If you're near the Ann Arbor side of metro Detroit, I might be able to recommend an architect for you to talk with who seems to be very up on energy-efficient construction.

BTW, do NOT build on a slab in SE Michigan or it will be much more difficult to ultimately sell your house; most people expect/want a basement here.

Anne

I don't like the exterior. It's overly busy, and the eye bounces from place to place. Rather than appearing soothing and welcoming, it's a jarring exterior. I particularly don't like the bay window area in the garage (expensive!) because it creates a large obstacle around which your guests must walk.

I do like your garage entrance. Your door is well-placed: That is, you don't have to walk around cars to get to it, and your cubby space is "enough" without being overdone. The only negative is that you'll have to carry groceries a long way to the kitchen/pantry.

Downstairs, I would square off all those "clipped corners". They add nothing to the plan, yet will be expensive to build.

Do you really need a living room AND a den AND a family room AND a bonus room? None of your "must haves" make me think you need that many public areas.

Likewise, do you really need a foyer that's as large as your family room? Straightening out the staircase would allow you to reduce the size of that expensive, yet rarely used room. I'd consider ditching the back staircase; it adds little to the functionality of the house.

Your kitchen space is nice, but I'd do away with the "around the corner" cabinet -- and, instead, I'd make the pantry two feet longer. You can never have too much pantry, and it's so much cheaper to build than cabinetry. Also, being short, I could never reach across that island, and it'd always be dirty in the middle.

Three fireplaces, which can easily cost 5K each. If you get rid of two of them, you could justify more square footage!

You have TWO large eating areas. You could probably chop off the bay window area in the kitchen eating area and still have plenty of space.
I like most of the upstairs -- it has the bedrooms you say you need, and the bonus room looks pleasant. I like the sight lines from the door to the large windows in the bonus room.

You don't list "bathrooms" as a priority, yet you've alloted a great deal of space (and money) to bathrooms. You could easily reconfigure the upstairs bath to serve all three children's bedrooms -- just make it open from the hallway. That's probably 15K saved right there. Likewise, you could do away with the powder room and have the guest suite bath open into the hallway to serve all your downstairs bathroom needs.

One note: When your parents come to stay, they don't have access to a washer/dryer downstairs. Is this a concern? What is now the powder room could house a small stack-up unit.

Overall, I like but don't love this floorplan.

lethargo-I have searched AIA in our area and not much luck either. It seems most that are listed are more into industrial design instead of residential. Slab builds wouldn't sell in our parts either, they would stand out as something that is amiss. I'm thinking basements are pretty standard throughout MI. Of course having always had one I can't imagine living without either. Good luck finding an architect.

I scanned the messages and don't think anyone has mentioned using houzz to research architect's work... see link below.

Have to ask one thing, just out of curiosity. I don't understand wanting a formal dining room, but a kitchen open to the living room -- to me, that seems at cross purposes.

Here is a link that might be useful: houzz link

mjlb, unless a listing says "architect(s)", which is a legally regulated title and practice in most states, the firms listed are not architectural firms, owned and managed by licensed architects.

If one doesn't see "architect" in the firm's title listing, they most likely are not architects.

Just a suggestion for those looking for professional credentials and experience.

Anne, thank you for your advice! We're at the edge of the metro area and there are many many lots available out here. We do think it would be better to find a lot and design to the lot. At this beginning stage we're kind of all over the place and will definitely be working on becoming more concise in our ideas. We're still pretty far east for Ann Arbor, but thanks for the offer.

Mrs.Pete, I agree with mostly everything youve pointed out. I would like to have the upstairs bath open to the hall, but we will wanting more than one bath available to the children as they grow. We hope to have more than 3 children.
Also, the downstairs doesn't need another wash/dryer, we'll just do away with the extra powder room.

Autumn, good luck finding someome to work with, it seems to be a tricky spot. I did, once upon a time, nanny for an architect bu his firmdoes commercial work. I will ask him for any references though.

Mjlb, we are a family that eats together. As the hubs works from home, nearly every meal is shared. We are eating in the kitchen right now and it drives us bananas. We used our formal, which was at it's best-day to day it's a casual room, dining room at least twice daily in our last home. I don't mind the kitchen open to the living room because we can clean up while the kids play nearby after meals, and I can keep an eye on them while I prepare the meals. Not sure if there is another way to do this? We did have a bar in the last kitchen where the kids would have their snacks. It was a peninsula that separated the kitchen space from the living room. That worked well for us. Yes, I have discovered houzz.com these past few weeks-to my hubby's horror! Joined with Pinterest I'm having a field day gathering ideas!

With all of this though, Im afraid that we'll get too personal and lose sight of resale value. How do you temper your dreams with forsight?

I agree about keeping a basement. We finished off most of ours which was great and the space is wonderful. However, we lost the basement storage space and are most grateful that we built a full staircase up to the attic which is where we now store tons of stuff. Esp in colder areas, basements are wonderful for keeping the house temperate and for preserving plumbing and such for when you lose power.

In your climate the perimeter foundation would be half as deep as a basement wall so building a full depth unfinished basement is pretty cheap space.

Have you looked at William Poole plans? Like you I'm hesitant to go the architect route and would like to stick with stock plans that might need slight modification.

Here's one I spotted that seems to have most of what you want aside from the staircase thing. It is 4800 sq ft though and not a craftsman.

Here is a link that might be useful: William Poole Brentwood