if wood hardness is a concern to your usage, take a look at a Wood Hardness Scale Chart to possibly expand your choices

Here is a link that might be useful: Wood Hardness Scale Chart

i know american walnut is too soft at 950 on the janka scale. that's why i'm looking at bolivian rosewood which has a rating of 1780. anyone? pretty please?

How about Brazilian Teak or Brazilian Walnut?

Bolivian rosewood should make a great floor with excellent hardness and stability. I haven't used it but I would not hesitate should the occasion arrive. You don't see it here more because it is not indigenous to the United States and cost. Like other rosewoods, the color will lighten over time, but so will black walnut.

I'd look at ipe (brazilian walnut) which is not really a walnut but is named walnut because it closely resembles american walnut in locks. It is also very very hard being around 3400 on the janka scale.

Keep in mind, while soft is soft, anything harder than say 1200 or more doesn't actually hold up more. The surface (al oxide finishes) actually start to get more wear and tear from pebbles or whatever that get pressed against the 'harder' surface.

this is getting really confusing. anthem: why ipe over rosewood? from what i've seen the ipe looks nothing like american walnut. nor does teak or anything else... i guess i'll have to wait and see what the architect brings to the table ...but i also have some samples coming in. in the meantime doesn't ANYONE have a b rosewood floor? maybe i'll be the first!

in the meantime doesn't ANYONE have a b rosewood floor?

Rosewood can have a pretty dramatic figure. This photo shows unfinished wood; with a finish, the brown heartwood will become a rich chocolate color. The light sapwood will be more of yellow color.

It is quite pretty, I think. And I'm sure it can be had with less dramatic variation in color -- the above is meant to be used on a guitar, where drama is the point. :-)

But if you're unsure you want to have that much drama on your floors, you'd best try to see the wood first, before buying a floor's worth.

--Steve

thanks everyone. i'm going to keep looking until i find something that speaks to me. so far, nothing has said a word.

Are you buying pre-finished or finished in place? Bolivian rosewood is very beautiful. However, if you are finishing in place, as I think you should, you need to be aware that some people are allergic to the dust. If you can imagine having poison ivy all over your body but no visible rash, that's kind of how it is. I would wake up at night scratching.

Why finish in place? Partly because you get a better finish but also because you are worried about wear and you can touch it up or recoat and it will look better. The pre-finished stuff has aluminum oxide in it and it is hard, but it still scratches. Then when you want to re-coat, you have a problem because you never get a 100% perfect floor unless you sand in place. So you will have slight differentials in the boards and if you lightly sand, you scrape off the corners.

Fortunately, there is a product called "Stockhausen" (like the composer and the syndrome) that is a prophylactic for all of these allergy-aggravating woods. It's a salve, you put it on BEFORE working w the wood, plants, or whatever, and you are OK. And if you get a good dermatologist, he will give you something else so the irritation goes away quickly. It took me a while to learn that, however.

Now on to the wood. Ipe is a little bit green looking but when you put a finish on it, it gets redder. It looks very similar to Brazillian Cherry or mohagony except that it is harder. You like grain. I have used that rosewood and have a couple of pieces in my house. A low-grade of Brazillian Cherry may work - don't forget that the grading has little to do w the quality of the wood and more to do with the clarity of it, same as with oak.

You can use #2 Common oak for that matter - it is full of figuring and grain. People look down on it for some reason, but I like it a lot and have a floor with it. Hides dirt phenomenally well, is easy to work with, and is super cheap because everyone wants clear oak for some reason.

There are other "rose" woods as well (most are not really "rose" but they are simply named that). Most of these woods have in common 1)they are hard; 2)they are expensive; 3)they are sometimes from endangered forests; 4)they are sometimes irritants to those with allergies, or who develop allergies.

So what to do?

You can look on the internet for places that sell end of runs. Sometimes they run off a few thousand feet for an order and they have 3-400 sq feet left. I found 354 sq ft of "Brazillian Rosewood" at $2.50 s/f as opposed to $14.50. So I bought it. Mixed it up with "Patagonian Cherry" that I got at $2.50 as well. Don't know what these sell for now but at the time they were both around $15 s/f or so. Maybe more.

Another thing is to look for alternatives. All wood, including ipe, will dent if you drop a hammer on it. Usually what happens is people scratch up their finish and they don't like that look. So use a satin finish rather than a glossy one. Use water-borne finish because it is very easy for you to lightly abrade and add a coat every couple of years without calling a floor re-finisher. More importantly, many of these tropical woods have properties that are not compatible with oil-finishes - most are just fine with water finishes. This is a very important consideration because if you put on an oil finish and it never hardens, it is a major chore to remove.

Hardness is not necessarily the only thing you need to think about.

Brazillian cherry for example, is hard but it moves a lot, like maple does. It also has big color changes. And really hard woods tend to splinter and crack as you are installing them - they are not necessarily that easy to work with. Some of those woods warp readily too - the oils start drying and you the wood twists. Bloodwood for example is horrid in this respect.

Other than the #2 oak I mentioned, one of the most beautiful woods for a floor is also one that is one of the hardest and one of, if not the most, dimensionally stable. It is also treated like a weed in the southwest because since they decided to exterminate prairie dogs, the dogs no longer destroy the small seedlings. The wood is mesquite. Very much like a rosewood, local, not endangered, super hard, super stable, and you can save the pieces and cuts and put them on you BBQ. I do it all the time.

Here is a link that might be useful: pics of mesquite

rosesinny,

thanks so much for all the info. the floor is for a new build so yes, we are finishing on site... well, the floor guys are . i know about the problems with allergens on the rosewood. i found a company that stocks it and they are sending a sample... they made me promise not to sand it, though.
your mesquite floor is beautiful, i love the grain. hoping to find something swirly without knots... i really want the american walnut so it's hard to choose something over what you REALLY want, kwim?
i know the braz cherry is very popular, but i'm not feeling that either. both architect and builder have tried to push it on me; you would think they own stock in it. i notice your mesquite floor has beautiful, fine swirls in it... are there different grades available so perhaps i could find one without the knots? -just wondering. again, thanks for taking the time for such a detailed response. it was really very helpful.

Not sure if there are different grades - call the guys at Texas mesquite. Just remember how it grows - all twisted and knarly so there will be lots of swirls and probably knots. The real thing is even nicer than the pics and it is super hard.

The only reason I mentioned mesquite is because it is so absolutely hard and stable, both of which are good, and to me, beautiful. It actually can have some grey in it as well and it has a slightly larger color palette than walnut. It is in some ways a perfect floor and then you get some walnut pieces like curio cabinets, buffets, etc...

There is a showroom in Brooklyn that you can look up on line - Premier Wood Flooring I think it is called. When you go in there, they have a big landing on the top floor. It has been walked on by people during winter, coming in from rain and snow and slush, etc. It gets lots of traffic - more than your floor is going to have. It is made with American cherry. Softer than oak, much like your wood. It holds up wonderfully and has been holding up for the past 5-6 years since it was put in. I check the place out periodically to see how the woods are changing, etc.

The point is - if you like walnut, go for it. You only live once and really, are you going to be driving a bulldozer over the floor? Walnut is absolutely beautiful.

One last thing you may consider - there is a company that recently changed its name, it used to be called Asia Rain and now is something like Terramai or some such. THey found all of these old railroads that the British had built during the Victorian era over in India and SE Asia. The wood was anything that grew in the jungle. So these guys cut it up into planks for flooring. I used that too. What a stunningly beautiful floor - wood is all different colors and textures and it is reclaimed so you are not harming the environment etc. Good luck!