Geothermal is the best and cheapest type of heat but it will never roi.
i think in most cases a good airsource heat pump is your best roi. some of the newer pumps are working down to almost 0 degrees but even if you have to run with aux heat strips once in a while it will still be cheaper than geothermal if you consider the installation costs differential.

One thing I missed. I will have a basement, and any mechanicals will be installed there. Roof or attic installation is not an option. I don't know enough about airsource heat pumps, but I'd assume you need to mount them high? Will it funtion for heating, cooling, and water heat? I've read on one site that they are only efficient down to around 40 degrees F, and below that need supplementing. Is that wrong? See: http://www.acunit.com/air-source-heat-pumps.html

This year notwithstanding, we generally have some number of days below 0 degrees F in this area of Michigan.

I would say either a geothermal system or boiler with in-floor radient heating. Of course, if you have a boiler you would need a seperate air handler and A/C unit for cooling. You could also use a heat pump for "chill chasing" in the spring and fall. Anything geothermal is minimum $10,000, and remember, there are high-efficiency propane or oil boilers available.

I second the radiant floors for heating with a mod/con gas boiler driving it, and a central ducted heat pump system for A/C and the 'shots' of heat you'll need in the spring and fall. It is the most comfortable combination of HVAC systems.

Current heat pumps do rather well at lower outside temperatures, however in most cases, the heat loss of the house on a cold day will exceed the capacity of a properly sized heat pump, and that is where the need for supplemental heat comes from. But during the warmer periods of the spring/fall, the heat pump will heat much cheaper than gas/oil.

Michael

Geothermal first, heat pump second.

The point to consider in terms of payback, is what will happen in the next ten years....if things go really crazy, you may not even be ABLE to buy gas or oil for heating (I am 100% with you on gas for cooking, love it)

In my opinion, note, I'm no expert, electricity stands the best chance of being a form of energy that'll be available when no others are, since it can be generated so many different ways....so geo/heat pump shines there....especially geo.

I don't think heat pumps can be configured to heat hot water, but, as you know, geo can.

If I was building new, geo would be it, first and foremost. Gas as your backup heat, even if there's electric fallback strips, a hybrid system....but I don't think geo needs backup like heatpumps do.

As far as heating goes, go with a boiler and radiant heating.

I'd also recommend geothermal. The only extra cost is the installation of the ground loop - and this is a one-time investment in your future heat/cool supply. If you're thinking radiant, then geothermal works exceptionally well here too with a water-to-water unit. We built a new house last year and installed geothermal and also in a retrofit of a 109 year old house. Whatever you do do though, make sure you "build tight and ventilate right" as well as make sure you have plenty of insulation ... though being in Michigan, I presume that goes without saying. An HRV is not a luxury, it's a necessity so make sure this is designed in right from the start.

Paul.

OK, What's an HRV? Obviously, I'm a novice at this....

HRV= heat recovery ventilator
What's a mod/con?

HTH
CHris

Not sure about mod, but con is probably condensing - type boiler - more efficient.

Thanks on the HRV.

The 'mod' is likely modulating. Rheem makes a modulating furnace that does infinite BTU adjustments from 40% to 100% of output capacity. So, I assume he was referring to boilers that can do it too.

OK, Looks like the best bet is a Condensing-type boiler with radiant heat, a heat pump for AC, and a heat-recovery ventilation system . It looks like domestic hot water can be done with the boiler.

Now, How does that compare, initial cost-wise, to either:

1) Horizontal-loop geothermal (either direct exchange, or water) for heat/AC/Hot water? Once again, the HRV system would be required. I know this is more $$, but double, triple, ???

2) Standard high efficiency gas furnace, outdoor AC unit, and HRV system?

Assumption is, 1st floor 2500ft2, basement same.

Thanks,

Dave

Bump. Still looking for comparative pricing to make decisions.
Thanks,
Dave

I am in the Detroit area on 2 acres. I start my build may 1st.

I priced forced air high eff and also geo.

Roughly 3600sqft, 2 story.

If my house was a little smaller I could have used 1 6 ton geo closed in ground loop for around 22-23k with an average cost of 1000-1200 a year vs natural gas of, rough numbers 3300-3600 a year?

with my house size, I need 2 units, one will be a 5 ton and 1 2.5 ton, base install 34k with the hot water setup, and I want to say 3500-4000 more for the upgraded units. So 34-38k total with an average of $100\month heating cooling bill

Friend that turned me onto geo built his home in 2005. For a year on his 3500sqft bottom heavy home avg $80 a month!!!! Open loop 2 unit system.

Forced air quotes where 12k for a basic 6ton in the basement to 15-18k for one unit zoned. Basement and second floor quote setups were 18k to 25k (25 was high eff trane).

At this point, I like low monthly bills and I am keeping the house for a while. I would rather not see those 300-400 month heating cooling bills.

if your in the detroit area or north of detroit send me a message and we can trade sub contacts!