GeoThermal Price Check....

14 years ago

I got a price for GeoThermal for my new home today, and I wanted to check to see what the experts thought...

Some Background:

I live in Oklahoma, and am building a 2400 sq ft home. It will have batt insulation in the walls (R-19), and blown-in insulation in the Attic (R25 to R30). My Elec rate throught my Elec Co-Op is .0750 per KWH May-Nov, and then .0750 first 1000 KWH, and then .0520 above and beyond that in Winter Months.

My elec Co-op also offers a Rebate program of $650 per ton of Geothermal Installed

I live on 20 acres, and am considering a GeoThermal Horizontal Loop system.

Here is what I was quoted:

1. Climate Master 6 Ton Horizontal Geothermal heat pump (TTVS072AGC0OALKS) with the following Features:

- Refrigerant R-410

- High and low pressure switches

- Two Stage Copeland ultra-tech scroll compressor

- 20 KW electric backup heat

- 10 yr limited compressor warranty

- 10 yr limited refrigerant parts warranty

- 5 yr other parts warranty

2. 2 pump flow centers

3. Piping from loop to the flow center and from the flow center to the heat pump

4. Sound reduction system for attic installed components

5. complete insulated metal duct system

6. High efficiency air filter system

7. Air Devices

8. Digital programmable thermostat

9. high voltage wiring from heat pump to flow center

Condensate drain and aux pan with float switch
Labor to install horizontal loop

(I will be required to find equipment and labor to dig ditches, but i have a trackhoe)

Quote is 23,425

Is this a good price? Is the equipment suitable for my home, or is it overkill.

After the 650 per ton rebate ($3900), and the Fed 30% tax rebate (7,000), and i would have an investment of about 11,500 + excavation.

Thanks for the input

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (11)

fsq4cw
14 years ago
Not living in your region I cannot say for sure how accurate this price is. However, it does appear to be EXTREMELY low for a 6-ton installation including ductwork, even with you digging the trenches.

The model quoted seems to be a vertical unit not horizontal.

Who is responsible for designing the ground loop? What is the design configuration (pipe diameter, feet per ton, linear or slinky, reverse return, parallel or series etc.); for what design temperatures? No mention of antifreeze, flushing & purging. Will the headers be mounted inside the foundation or buried in the ground? Who pays the electrical hookup of the heat pump and backup? Is your electrical panel large enough? How many CFM is the duct system designed for? Are register covers included; what level of quality? Which make & model T-stat? What are Air Devices? Which high efficiency air filter system?

Has a Manual J & Manual D been performed? What credentials and experience does this installer have?

A few questions; just wondering...

SR

Here is a link that might be useful: IGSHPA
aj33
14 years ago
I had called a Geothermal guy yesterday for my new construction 2400 sq ft house in New Jersey. I don't have the detailed quote yet but he said it will be a 3 or 3.5 ton system. Cost $42K.

He also mentioned that in NJ, he does not recommend horizontal loop because even if it is 8ft deep - on very cold days, system does not perform well.

AJ
Related Professionals
Natchitoches General Contractors · Aurora General Contractors · Akron General Contractors · Gainesville Home Remodeling · Houma Home Remodeling · Shreveport Home Remodeling · Rock Hill Home Remodeling · Chillicothe Home Remodeling · Burlington Home Remodeling · Grand Junction Home Remodeling · Helena Home Remodeling · Columbia Bathroom Remodelers · Saginaw Bathroom Remodelers · Grand Island Bathroom Remodelers · Bend Bathroom Remodelers
weedmeister
14 years ago
6 tons for 2400sqft?
ionized_gw
14 years ago
"6 tons for 2400sqft?"

That would seem about right for a house with NO insulation if you like to have windows open no matter what the weather.
djayh20
Original Author
14 years ago
The installer for this is the only one in my area that does GeoThermal, but has multiple installations of these units. I also thought that 6 tons might be overkill, but he stated that he would have a Load Capacity(?) for me next week.

Thanks for the questions that you gave so that I can ask the Installer.
User
14 years ago
Your insulation level is low. Put more money into achieving higher R values. Foam sheathing for the exterior and thicker cellulose in the attic plus a radiant barrier.
weedmeister
14 years ago
Then, get an estimate for a 15/16 SEER heat pump system. At 7cents/kwh, your power is cheap. It might be that at those rates it might take 30 years to make up the price difference between a higher-efficiency air-source heat pump and geothermal.
djayh20
Original Author
14 years ago
Well, I have gotten a quote for a 14 SEER unit from the same Installer. here is the details:

Installation of a Goodman 14 SEER 5 ton heat pump (SSZ140601) , with a Goodman Trane 4/5 ton electric air handler (ARUF496116) with 20 KW electric heat.

Price also includes complete metal insulated duct system, supply vents in all rooms and returns in each bedroom and main living area, and installation same as above.

Price is $8,950, and my Elec Coop has a rebate program of $250 per ton ($1,250), which makes total price around $7,700.

Thoughts???
david_cary
14 years ago
Your geo is so cheap that it is probably worth it even at your crazy cheap electric rates. I don't really know the climate in OK but in central NC, at your rates, you are looking at $500 a year for conventional ASHP and $350 a year for geothermal, so your payback is close to 30 years.

That is assuming you use enough electricity from other things to get to the lower rates for most of your heat. And it is assuming that the house is built fairly tight. Your insulation levels make me think OK has a fairly mild winter.

Geo makes more sense as your winter temps decrease and then it also tends to last a lot longer so your payback becomes the lifespan on a heat pump. And since you were quoted Goodman, that might be less than 10 years. Geo will also make more sense as your electric costs rise to more normal levels. At some point, electricity won't be 5 cents a KWH. Your math changes dramatically when it is 10 cents.

Given the inability to get any money safely on investments and the low borrowing costs, it make financial sense to prepare long term for inflation. So even a 30 year payback makes a lot of sense since that doesn't factor inflation -- if this is your home you plan on living in for a long time.
Heck - I plan on getting PV - it is basically a 5% ROI but that is great right now and it is a hedge against inflation
brickeyee
14 years ago
"He also mentioned that in NJ, he does not recommend horizontal loop because even if it is 8ft deep - on very cold days, system does not perform well. "

Drill for the ground source.

While the horizontal loops sound good, drilling gets you access to far more stable temperatures that do not have significant seasonal variation.
fsq4cw
14 years ago
Any closed loop configuration of liquid ground loop is as effective as any other as long as it is properly designed and installed. It matters not whether it is vertical, horizontal linear 2-pipe, horizontal linear 4-pipe, slinky or whatever.

Rather than horizontal or vertical, other factors related to head (pressure drop) may be of equal or greater importance, such as, loop length & diameter, series or parallel configuration, proper header design, antifreeze type and concentration, just to name a few.

Consider all options possible. Seek out an installer that can.

Imagine.

SR