Software
Houzz Logo Print
mamis_gw

AC vs. Advanced Evaporative Cooler

17 years ago

Hi, great info / discussions in your forum, congrats.

May be you can volunteer some advice for us. We live in Albuquerque, NM. We are considering replacing our old swamp cooler (about 5500 CFM, roofmounted) with either an advanced evaporative cooler, such as the Oasys or the Coolerado, or going to refrigerated air.

The current swamp cooler works fine for us, (we are cool) but we are trying to tackle to concerns, 1) allergens 2) environment, in no particular order.

So we called so far 5 vendors, two were NATE certified, one from a big box store. I armed myself with info, before and during this process. First, I am disappointed none of these vendors ran a heat calc, not even the 75% NATE certified. While I believe their experience may serve their estimates well, I think it would not hurt check the numbers a bit.

See, we have a 3ton (80000 BTU) Carrier furnace (9200 weathermaker, 96% AFUE, 1 speed). This is still a bit young -8 years old. Our 1968 house is adequately insulated, although we are going to upgrade that (ceiling has 12ft fiberglass), Im not sure about the R-specs of the walls). We measured the usable square footage (room by room), came up with about 1700sqft. It has three bedrooms, a den, small office, two baths and an open living/kit/dining room. We had installed renewal by andersen double pane windows, got 9 windows. The attic ductwork seems fairly good, thoroughly insulated with fiberglass, and no noticeable leaks. There are 13 vents, and return lines (floor level vents) in most of the rooms, except bathrooms and our den.

OK - so the consensus seems that our furnace blower may be a bit undersized for our house. Most of the vendors raised an eyebrow when they inspected the cabinet size, and pointed out that we need a 4ton blower. They just seem to 'know'.

We run two good hepa-air filtration systems in the house, these are standalone-mobile (Austin & Whirpool), and seem to move air well in the zones we want to filter air. The filters will degrade fast with the humidity added by the swamp coolers (evap), so that's why we look to the new - lower humidity machines mentioned above. The catch is that the Oasys is a 3ton system (the claim is 60 SEER) and the Coolerado is about $8,000 installed, may be 5ton, i dont remember now.

Anyhow, I ask the vendors about a heat-calc, and they were reluctant to go into the effort (1hr??). We are having two more vendors come.

At the electrical panel, we may need to replace the main breaker (50W) to something more appropriate, along with the wire to the pole. The panel can handle, it is rated to more than that. We would need to tend a 220v line up for a compressor or a Coolerado, as the other 220 breakers are used to capacity by drier & range.

What we would like to know is, if we could just place a 3-ton system for our cooling needs (we dont feel we need to be at 72 all the time, BTW) and run it near peak efficiency. Then we can decide whether to go with a Carrier compatible compressor until we need to replace our furnace with at least a 2 speed one with same blower.

Everybody is giving us 4ton compressors, except two vendors, all told us to replace out furnace with a 80% efficient (or better.. Trane, Carrier). Im afraid the eventual heat calc may suggest we need a 3.7ton system or so. I couldnt access the only heat-calc tool I saw a few months ago online, but ey, maybe you could chip in some advice we are missing here.

Thanks in advance!!

mia

Comments (3)

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    A heat calc is an absolute must. By observation, I can say that your furnace is oversized, as I heat my 2500 sq ft house with less than 60,000 btu. I also air condition it with 3 1/2 tons of a/c. My (Phila area) design temperatures are similar to yours.

    Since you like it cool, you might need a little more cooling tonnage, but 5 tons of a/c might be a stretch.

    It would help those responding if you would clarify your terms with respect to heating and cooling; i.e., heating as X btus @ Y% efficiency; cooling as tons.

    Some furnaces are available with 2 sizes of blowers, so you don't have to oversize a furnace just to be able to move enough air in cooling. What size/efficiency furnaces were quoted?

    V

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks V,

    Today Im having another vendor that is actually doing a heat-calc. Finally.

    My model number is 58MXA10011116, and I digged some specs:
    IP(MBH), OP(MBH),AFUE(%)
    100.0, 93.0, 92.0,

    It is supposed to deliver a max CFM of 1315.
    I suppose there are some losses in the duct
    system -- which has two sizes, corresponding
    to two different vent outlets. Without
    actually measuring those metal (alloy, like alum)
    ducts (I'll get there!)I'd say ducts seem to
    be have an OD 6" and perhaps 10", I may be off,
    they have quite a bit of insulation.

    I got many quotes, right now I can write here
    numbers of those who send emails. What is
    disturbing is that many of the vendors said
    right of the bat that the furnace was too small,
    and we would need to replace it with a bigger
    80% AFUE. Well, Im glad we did not heed those
    matter-of-fact recommendations.. I wonder how
    many people fall for those?

    One guy offered (among other less top-of-the line items)

    Trane XC95: TUH3C100ACV4VA
    XL20i A/C : 4TTZ0048A1000A
    XL20i Heat Pump : 4TWZ0048A1000A.

    Other did offer to install this:

    Carrier 80% A.F.U.E Infinity Series Variable speed furnace with 110,000 B.T.U.H Heating Input. Model # 58 CVA110-1--20,

    Connected to (1) Carrier Puron cased performance series "N" Coil with 4 Tons of Cooling model number CNPVP4821ATA. From The Evaporator Coil an Insulated line set will be connected to (1) One Carrier Infinity Series up to 17 S.E.E.R (4) four tons of cooling condenser with (2) Two stages of cooling. model number 24ANA748A003.

    Other people just offered to couple our existing furnace
    with some Carrier condensers that were 4tons, per the model number.

    Nobody seemed keen on following up on the advanced evaporative coolers, which are very appropriate for this dry climate. Some of this swamp coolers demand a fraction of the electricity, and do not consume the level of water that traditional swamp coolers do - yet, the vendors are pushing the A/Cs in this area hard - i wonder.

    Thanks for your thoughts, I think this is reassuring. Will post more numbers, etc.

    mia

  • 17 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Don't even consider any proposal without a detailed (printed) heat calc. Save yourself some grief. When calling a contractor, ask how they determine size of equipment. If given any other answer than 'by manual J heat calc', move on.

    You also need a comprehensive evaluation of your duct work as you will be looking at pushing 1600 CFMs (4 tons). With your dry climate you will (should be) running at full CFMs, not a reduced value for dehumidification.

    V