It seems to be part of the younger culture. Although there is hidden age discrimination among many employers, your best bet is hiring older men.

Competitive pay and benefits keep people. I worked for almost 30 years at a large company. Out of over 500 employees, maybe 2 quit during the period.

just some input at this end. I don't know what or how strict your codes are or if you have codes but all our guys
have to be certified to some point. A helper cannot even
connect a gauge or touch anything that deals with the sealed gas side of a refrigeration system unless he or she
has C.F.C. certification. They can't even buy parts on their own. They can do ducting and electrical. Probably the main reason is after deductions, unless you pay them under the table, they take home about a little over $9.00
per hour. I won't get out of bed for $15.00 per hour. We have open shops and closed shops and usually the open shop will pay more to keep their guys. a tin basher gets $32.17
canadian per hour and a refer gets $37.82 per hour.
Some HoneyWell control techs. that do only Pneumatics can
get up to $50.00 per hour. Anyway if the tech spends all
that time in school and has to pay his own way and pay for
his licence someone is going to pay for it and that someone is you. Just an after thought on this C.F.C. stuff
NO ONE can just walk off the street and write this test up here. You HAVE to be working in the trade and prove it with a letter from your employer. If you are self employed
you need your busness licence number and years in the trade. this stops idiot home owners ( no offence ) from
trying to fix their own stuff. This is an eight hour cource
at $285.00 and must be renewed every year. Miss one year and your done. Glad you don't live here ?

Fluffybunnysui:

I'm up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Back in 2001 which was the last year I was still physically able to work in the trade, I worked in the power house of a Native American gambling casino for over $21.00 per hour.

The work was easy as it was mostly indoors, and for any major change outs we would end up with a platoon of outside contractors with the heavy equipment necessary to do it fast and right.

Previous to that I was a private contractor with no employees. Any grunt help I needed I hired through temporary help agencies and remembered the good ones which I tipped at $10.00 per hour over and above what their agency paid them so they would come back to me when I called the agency again.

My going rate was $42.00 per hour, $48.00 trip charge and I refused to climb roofs for that money as there was enough inside and basement work that didn't require me to. Since most customers wanted set prices for repairs, my actual earnings averaged out at $60.00 per hour gross.

I think you Texans are too spoiled from having so many migrants willing to work for next to nothing that you think you can get away with underpaying good workers forever. Pretty soon Mexico will become a financial powerhouse and you won't see people looking for work North of the border.

Don't complain about starting new workers at $15.00 per hour, but take a lesson from the late great Henry Ford and pay more than the labor market rates in your area. The good workers will line up for jobs with you and your present workers won't want to lose their jobs.

After 30 days, give them $17.00 per hour and after a year, go to $20.00+.

If you want older experienced workers like Baymee suggested, you will probably be better off starting them higher than stated above and giving them raises more often.

Now quit whining cause you can't take advantage of decent, skilled, capable workers.

Fairyprincess

We have had a personel problem for the last 10 years.There are no new people getting in this trade.There used
to be trade schools in my area that turned out young students every year.Now there are none.This generation is lazy when it comes to manual labor jobs.Lets face it we are in the computer video game age.
I have some good techs.I have a very high pay scale inorder to keep them.I dont see them linning up any where around here.Check any duct crew and you will find maybe one or two guys that are decent and could actually pass a drug test.It is getting worse every season.I have a top rated company in my area with top pay and beneifits,new trucks,new building.I dont mind paying people with techniical skills ,good work ethics and some ambition but I,ll be damned if Im gonna pay some of these low life numbskull drug head scumbags $15.00 an hr to show up and late too boot.This trade is demanding both mentally and physically and should demand a high pay scale with proper experience.I get punk kids come in the office looking for jobs.Most of the time they are high school drop outs.Baggy pants,earings,nose rings,eyebrow rings,wanting a job ,asking rediculous amounts of money per hr with no experience at all.The sad thing is they go to my competitors and are hired on the spot.You can imagine what kind of work they turn out.

Hello Fb,
I work in N. Texas. I tried for several years to get a job that paid $12.50 per hour, doing any kind of maintenance. I am 53, so I am too old to make this much money. (I have been told several times by TWC to settle for $7.50 hr) I regularly see maintenance jobs that pay $7-9.00 hr. on the TWC listings. (Texas Workforce Commission)

In 2003, I worked as an independent sales person at SAMS Club and found that workers that did not speak English were paid $5.00 hr and $7.50 hr to department managers. One very knowledgeable worker that had 14 years at SAMS, and was almost indispensable; only made $8.00. He was allowed 28 hours a week (I averaged about $15 hr.) This is the worlds largest employer.

I see many jobs that start at $15.00, but the workers need my experience and be in their 20's. My many years of experience should qualify me for much higher paid jobs. Companies that even come close to fortune 1000 size will not even consider me. I am too old and well trained.

I took a test for Coke that was a $12.00 hr job, where the test was so hard, that it took me 4 hours to finish. (2 of the 5 testing left after 30 minutes) The test was so hard; it looked like it was rigged for failure. Any young inexperienced person taking the test would be lucky to make 50 of 100 points, on the 125+ question test. This was a low level entry level job that expected 25 years of refrigeration experience. I did not get an interview. (I was the second oldest person in the test group) I always have very high test scores. (Mid to high 90's)

You need to learn Spanish and hire a wetback.

Last fall, I decided to do maintenance on my own again. (12 years previous experience) (I did not want the headaches or responsibility) I am very busy in spurts. I have 2 major customers that provide 80% of my business, but I am still in the $25 range. (myself) I will increase prices as I add new clients.

My last helper averaged $20 per hour. I cherished the time I had him. He made my installations much easier. He was not dependable at all. I will start a new helper next week, and will pay him $18 per hour. Neither helpers know anything about HVAC. They are better painters than anything.

As to quality trained workers, hire older workers, then hire someone that can bend and stoop and climb for the dirty jobs. Forget the cost, pay them cash. I have long considered hiring illegal aliens to help me permanently. The only problem is communicating my needs. It is difficult to teach someone who refuses to learn English, and I don't speak Spanish.

It is a shame that people will not work for a pittance, it must be a communist plot of some kind? We all need people that will bust it all day for minimum wage/provide their own transportation and tools plus any supplies needed for the job that I might forget to bring, plus what would really be good would for them to do, would be to buy my lunch every day (I like ribeye steak for lunch). Someone once told me this little phrase (dicky bird I think) at least I think this is the way it went?? Quote: "GOOD help aint CHEAP, and CHEAP help aint GOOD" found that to be mostly true with a few exceptions, good help that is paid good does not neccasarily make them good help lol, you still got to cut the deadwood. Not buying lunch today?? as DONALD would say YOUR FIRED. Anyone out there looking for work?

I'm seeing these wage scales from different areas and I won't even mention what the techs in the northeast are pulling in these days. Some of you guys would crap all over yourselves! I'd be interested in knowing what you throw together for a bennies package. Fluffybunnysui, do you offer any kind of insurance. etc with that lowly wage you offer? Probably not. So you expect some poor SOB who you are paying peanuts to sweat his backside off in a 130 degree attic for you?!!! The northeast part of the country may not be the most desirable section to live in but for the most part they sure as hell realize if you want good, loyal people, it's gonna cost you. Contractors who don't want to pay just don't make it very long around here.
Here's an example whats usually in the pot along with decent wages for a comm/industrial tech
Company paid insurance. Employer/employee split 80%/20%
Company furnished vehicle
Company supplied laundered uniforms
1 week paid vacation after a year, 2 after 3 years
Sick days (usually 3)
Floating holiday(s)
Company furnished cell phone
Winter jacket or insulated coveralls
Company supplied cell phone
Tuition reimbursement
Tool allowance
Company matched up to 5% 401K
Company paid life insurance policy equal to 1 years salary, double indemnity accidental
If you don't offer this minimum more then likely you'll have a perpetual ad in the newspaper but word gets out quick.

Good christ. Most of you guys are nut bars. PAY THE MAN.
You will know in an eight hour day if they are any good.
who gives a S%^T if he or she has a nose ring. can they do the job? If they can deal with people and are friendly you
might have a good person.( just my opinion there is only
a few nut bars i refer to ). Bob Brown, I took that so called test for Coke. not a problem. ( it was easy ). Passed but they wanted me to go all over hell with their truck and i was supposed to supply and pay for my first class licence with an air endoesment. NOT. $ 35.31 per hour back then. Here is one thing, Bob B. that you might think about because it got me almost unemployed. You charge $25.00 per hour as in your post. Most companies charge $40,or $50 per hour. I'll pay $50 because i think they know more. ( not usually the case ). I sure as hell won't pay $25.00 because they don't know S^%T. If they knew what they were doing shouldn't they charge the going rate as in $40.00 per hour ? Sorry but that is what people
think. If i get a call after hours its $97.50 per hour from the time i leave to the time i get back. If it is a holiday It will be $192.00 per hour plus truck charge plus
mileage plus traveling time plus supplies plus tax. approx.
$250.00. per hour. THEY PAY. i love holiday calls.
it's double time and a half. thing is when the customer finds out the cost it usually waits till monday . go figure

I based my fees on what is expected by American Home Shield.

This is a national company with stastics in all markets. They get what they want to pay. Starting over, I will offer a lower rate to repeat business. I do not like it, but it is putting food on the table. I guess I am gripeing, but this is what I have to do to work.

I also believe that the big companies set the pace for wages. Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Sears, and the local governments. Many companies adjust thier pay structure to what the big boys pay.

THe big companies are regularly using illegal workers. I see this daily. From oil companies to foodservice to local governments. The politicians also use illegal workers in thier homes. Many have been caught.

I guess we're just from different worlds bob. Quite honestly we just don't have, (not yet anyway) the illegal worker problems you folks have to deal with in that part of the country. That makes our wage scale competative to "nobody" but ourselves! I was always under the impression Texas was top shelf with everything. Obviously that is not the case when it comes to wages for the trades. People say move south, the climate does wonders for ones health. All of a sudden the minus 30 wind chills and the 3 AM dances with the family snowblower to clear that 3 feet of snow in the driveway before going to work don't seem like such difficult times after all. companies like you mentioned don't even come into the picture around here.

i get between 50 and 70 dollars an hour based on chest size

George:

Hopefully you get more for the smaller chest sizes and give a discount for the larger sizes. At least give a warranty to the larger chest sizes for crying out loud.

There is a lot of small companies in my area. When I say a lot, I mean probably 90% of the workers work for a 2-5 man shop. There are probably several thousand HVAC guys in my area. Many don't have the chops to walk and chew gum. But there are some very good guys around here. Better than me.

The problem is many of the better skilled workers no longer do normal service calls, and the remaining guys are on a commission based pay structure. This guarantees that the public gets hosed more times than not.

HVAC is probably the hardest trade to learn, but once a guy learns how to add freon, they think they are an expert. You do this for a summer, and you do 5-10 calls a day, you think that you know everything. They usually don't know squat. Normal practices done in many areas are eliminated, in the effort to make the next call. Checking for coil condition takes too long. Gas and go.

I once worked for a company where they supplied leads for a system cleaning. The service guy provided the 2 free pounds of freon the add offered. The price was 1/2 the going rate, so many people called the company. The service guy made $5 for the call. The only way he could make money was to find problems and convince the customer to do the work. One guy that barely knew how to add gas, within 2 weeks of starting, he was earning over $500 per week. Most of us were struggling to earn $150 a week. One day he sold a window shaker cleaning job for almost double the money that a new unit cost. This was 1985, and he got about $650 to take the unit out of the window and wash the unit in the front yard. It took about 2 hours. He made more money for that job than most of the guys made a week. He was the only guy that spoke Spanish, and this was a Spanish customer. A typical cost was about $175 for the same job. I quit the company that day, because I could see the company would soon have legal problems. A couple of months later the company was shut down for deceptive practices. The reopened within a couple of weeks under a new name and continued thier practices.

To replace a capacitor, it cost as much as the customer was willing to pay, but the price started at $150. The service guy got $20 for the job. Just about any repair costed $200.

This practice is typical even today. $50 motors that take 30 minutes to install are billed at $500. Coil cleaning can cost more than a new system installation. Many times techs will damage something to increase the bill. If practices were regulated a little more, this would not be so common. The bigger the company, the more deceptive practice charges against the company. It does not get better. This is part of the reason, I got out of the business for awile.

Here in Upstate New York, my nephew averaged around 15 bucks an hour with tips delivering pizzas. My daughters are making more money working as part time nannies, and waitressing during the summer than some skilled tradesmen. My wife, and many of the women in my family make decent money working in the healthcare field, and they don't work nearly as hard as many skilled tradesmen I know. Lots of private duty gravy side work as well.

Some of the builders, plumbing & heating, and HVAC outfits have high turnover due to low wages, poor benefits, poor working conditions & seasonal layoffs. This isn't the 1980s. Housing, property taxes, fuel, utilities all have increased. They'll never find or keep good employees if they can't afford to live on their wages, and when non skilled positions with no layoffs & better working conditions pay similar (sometimes more) money.

Some skilled tradesmen certainly aren't well compensated considering their level of knowledge, their skills, experience, working conditions etc. Ive worked in flooded moldy basements, low basements, crawlspaces, worked in blazing hot attics, the hot sun, freezing rain, snowstorms, windstorms etc. I've inhaled plenty of mold, dust, dirt, fiberglass, soot & had plenty of bumps, bruises, sprains, cuts, fractures etc. I've worked on high steep pitched roofs, 60 foot extension ladders, high scaffolding, bucket trucks, 100 foot cranes etc. No amount of compensation would be too much

I don't pay some of my help what they're truly worth, but I provide them with inexpensive apartments, houses and do other things to help them when I can.

I don't pay some of my help what they're truly worth, but I provide them with inexpensive apartments, houses and do other things to help them when I can.
Thats commendable but in my opinion you have to go to a tech school in this trade in order to go anyplace in it. You're just not going to learn the right way doing OJT. An anybody who takes the time to do the schooling and work his way up the experience ladder certainly deserves a stab at the American dream. Low wages and a cheap rent to me is a far distance from it. I don't know whats worse, employers that are to cheap to find and pay decent help or the dumb ass who belittles himself by working like that.

I hate to hear stories such as the $500 motor replacement. You wonder how the people involved sleep at night.

That kind of stuff wouldn't fly in an fiscally conservative area, such as eastern PA.

I have to put some of the blame on the homeowner for not having more smarts, but then, he's sweating, the wife is nagging, and he's on the spot, so he thinks if $500 will fix the situation, then do it. A/C is a luxury here; in fact, after living here for 30 years, I just put it in last year.

As for Bob making $150 a week in 1985, I would have found a different job. I almost made that each day.

Getting back to the job candidates issue: I would look for word of mouth referrals and older men with knowledge and skills who show up for work every day. I would give them good benefits and pay to keep them, treat them with respect and if there was a bad apple, I would fire him.

And if you have a successful business you can afford to do this. And if you don't, you can work solo.

"I hate to hear stories such as the $500 motor replacement. You wonder how the people involved sleep at night."

I'm sure they sleep quite well on their soft, comfortable, money-stuffed mattresses.

Boy you got that right kodiak jp! The kicker is I wonder how many of those same crooks are the ones who are paying potentially decent tech pee poor wages like some of the stuff discussed here.

Just to clarify, when I said I don't pay my help what they're truly worth, it doesn't mean that I don't pay them well. Providing reduced cost housing, and financing reduced cost housing are just extras.

There's reallly no such thing as cheap labor in my area. Even inexperienced part time helpers want big bucks. We don't have immigrant laborers, or young people that want to do intense physical labor.

We pretty much have full employment. Anyone with a high school education, a clean drivers license and a good work ethic that can pass a drug test and background check can make a decent living.

As far as quality of service and honesty, there are plenty of people pushing new equipment, plenty of people replacing parts for profit, and plenty of parts replacing troubleshooters in a few different industries. Free Inspections/ Free System Analysis/ Free Estimates/Financing...

You forgot one marcus2007, something along the line of "Up to two pounds of freon included, only $159.95 :-)

I've had my own HVAC business for 17 years now and I'm a small operator again. I say again as I had guys working and as you mentioned, it just became a headache. They wouldn't show up mondays, call in sick all the time, not follow guidelines, get hurt and want to get paid for not working with a stubbed toe and so on. I got down to one helper I paid $15.00 per hr or by the job. Even he, after being with me for 11 yrs, became lazy and I had to start instructing him on what to do. I let him go. I do live in a small town, though I am surrounded by bigger cities, have been able to "refine" my customer list. I dedicate myself to the old customers and keep a steady pace all year. I loose a few customers every year by death or they move or just get old and go into retirement homes, but I gain the same amount by word of mouth.(I don't advertise). I have the best customers a man could ask for and I take care of them honestly and fairly. This treatment gets around by word of mouth and keeps me going.
I was called by a women whose husband passed away three months prior, was on a limited income and wanted to know what I charged to check her system out. Well, I went to her home which was 3 years old- the system 3 years as well and found it in like new condition and nothing wrong and billed 52 bucks for the call. She began crying with joy. Come to find out, one of these big companies in the nearby large city had come to her house (they advertized the typical $29.95 service call) and told her she needed a start kit, contactor, indoor blower cleaning, a freon leak repaired and the outdoor coil washed for $721.00 or the system was going to go out on her! She had a scroll compressor with cap tube evaporator, the contactor was fine, the blower was clean and the leak was the outdoor suction line dripping "green stuff" which was just a little corrosion from being wet. I took a hose to the outdoor coil. Unbeleivable!!! I got 4 other customers just by her word of mouth and one had their system replaced. How do I get jobs? I use old fashion care and honesty. My prices aren't the cheapest around, but I do it right. Every call gets an indoor coil check, condensor washed and a good going over- air split, humidity, superheat/subcooling check and ducts.
I install by myself, in attics, under homes, complete Trane systems and I'm 52 years old- not old by any means. I design systems and the ducting. I have all the latest and best testing equipment and keep a large parts stock. My truck is always clean and I wear proffesional clothes. My customers are the boss and I don't forget it.
I never thought this would be my future in 1974, when I first began HVAC work.
A/C can be the lowest paid industry if you make it that way. People are paying for your experience. An inexperienced tech may take two hours to do the same as an experienced tech would take one hour- charge accordingly. Make sure it is done correctly and completely. Do more than what is expected. Have a great attitude.
I worked for a large company between 1982 and 1989 making $12.00 per hr, free health insurance, uniforms, a new van every 2 years which I took home and could use for myself as well. Today, I can't beleive some companies still want to pay 10-14 per hour after "20" or so years later- no way will you keep them with that pay, with the employee now having to pay a portion or even half of the health insurance, uniforms and no truck to take to and from work. A good tech needs to be paid $20.00 per hr and benefits. That leaves the company with having to charge or make $80.00 (at least) per call on average (4 times the Techs pay ).
Stay away from Home Shield if you want to stay in business and get your own customers! If Home shield drops you- you are gone! Never put your business in one basket and depend on any one customer. I turn them down all the time because they think they can tell ME what I charge. I told them what I charge and that is what I will bill out. I know what it takes to run my company and I will not give it away, keeping a fine line between profit and just making it- that's not my planned future.
What happened to that large company I worked for? They were so tied up in doing work for new home builders- they went under and sold out because the builders started buying cheaper equipment from other companies and building slowed to a crawl. From multi millions to rags almost overnight!
Wow - I think I just wrote a book! Oh!- keep a sense of humor!

Good write up daddo, I'll bet alot of the homeowners who are gonna read that will be wishing you hailed from their particular area! There's a one man operation up here pretty much like you but he's in his 60's. (He fired his son because he didn't like the quality of work he was putting out) He runs into a bind every once in a while with electronic stuff so I give him a hand when he asks. He does beautiful work though. I've actually taken digital pics of some of his work and sent them to the mfgs. saying this is how you should display your equipment in your literature.

Kokiak said, I'm sure they sleep quite well on their soft, comfortable, money-stuffed mattresses.

I don't think he uses this system, but he threw out the idea. So, why don't those who ascribe to this idea try this experiment.

I propose that a few of these "artists" really rip someone off this week. Preferably someone who can't afford it. Go directly to the bank and turn the check into cash. Put the cash in the mattress near your pillow so you can smell it. After one week, report back to this site and let us know if there are bags under your eyes and how you feel in general.