We are purchasing our Vision 500 series tonight. My wife and I had similar concerns after searching for internet reviews on the Bosch. It was hard enough to find any reviews at all since they are somewhat new models. In my opinion more people will post more negative reviews than positive, its just the nature of negative experiences. If a customer is happy they tell 4 people if they are not happy they tell 100.

If you read enough you will see negative feedback on almost every brand. In the end we were deciding between Samsung, LG and Bosch. Two dealers I went to stopped selling LG last year because of reliability issues. That was enough for me to cross it off the list.

Samsung...mixed opinions online but overall reviews were positive. In the end the buttons and build quality of the Samsung unit did not "feel" as good as the Bosch. We were torn and depending on the day of the week we were leaning one way or the other. It sounds a little silly but we finally went with Bosch as the build quality felt better and in small part because it is built in the US. That fact is usually irrelevant to me but this time it was enough to influence our decision.

Keep in mind any higher end washing machine is placing sensitive electronics in extremely close proximity to water and subjecting it all to vibration which is a recipe for problems. Most machines will be fine but there are always going to be exceptions regardless of brand. If a machine has an issue these days its most likely electrical and not mechanical.

I don't think you can go wrong with either brand so get the one that you like better or makes you happier (can a washing machine really do that?) and don't look back.

Thank you Wi Badger, you are right about the fact that you can find bad reviews on almost any products on the net, I even found very negative reviews on the Miele machines. As for me I tend to lean towards the Bosch for some of the main reasons you have mentioned and I like the European simple design of the washer and dryer, we should be going to buy ours this Saturday, sears is giving us 200$ rebate and Bosch is adding another 300$ instant rebate, I am pretty sure you should be getting the same manufacturing rebate, Bosch is giving this rebate until March 31st 2010.

P.S. I bought a bosch electric stove 4 years ago and we love it, one of the nicest/quality looking stove around !!!

A $300 instant rebate...this is news to me. Do you have any more info on that, I would definitely be interested!!!

here is the link that has the promotion and this is from BOSCH Canada, I am not sure if you are in Canada or not. But if you are not you can still try to get it after you tell them that BOSCH Canada has this promotion,I found this on my own none of the the salesmen I went to see were aware of it. good luck

http://www.bosch-home.ca/en/bosch/promotions.html

I will have to see what I can do with that, thanks for the link! I am not in Canada so I am not sure if they will work with me on that. I did find that Bosch in the US is offering a mail in "rebate" for a $200 gift card from February 1 to February 28 so maybe I can at least get my purcahse date adjusted to February to qualify for that.

We probably won't have ours delivered until our remodeling is done so check back and let me know how you like your new washer/dryer! I am really excited to get ours since we currently have a 20 year old top loading Maytag in a lovely almond color.

hi wi badger, we just received and installed as per the manual our Bosch vision 500 washer/dryer they look stunning!!! I hope you have a solid floor! the washer weigh's more than my old GE top loader! you need two people to slide it in place or one person if you want to get a herniated disk or hernia, the delivery guy told me that the gross weight of the machine was about 250lbs and that the Bosch is their heaviest washing machine. I checked out the specs and found that it has a gross weight of 239lbs !! I know that they put concrete blocks in the machine when they build them, for stability, help with vibration and to ensure they don't leave your house...hahaha. I also ran a 1 hour dry (no clothes) hot cycle as per the manual and all went fine, you cannot hear the machine when it is washing and at the highest spin cycle the machine is solid as a rock, you feel a humming sensation on the floor but very little and only at the highest spin cycle, also note that our machines are installed on the second floor,the base is made of wood, but when I installed the ceramic tiles I used concrete for a total thickness of 1 1/2 inches of concrete and tiles, so it's very very solid. I love the sound of the machine at high speed it sounds like a smooth jet engine starting up, maybe I can use it when I play with my flight simulator.... As for the dryer no problem, very light weight, I made the attachments, leveled it, ran a little test and that was it.

We did 3 loads of cloths, and it was amazing!!! I don't know where people come up with all the problems with these machines, all through the wash process I could barely hear the washer even during the high spin cycle and I live on the second floor, the dryer was just as quiet. The cloths came out super clean, super fast and almost dry !!! if these machines perform like this all the time doing laundry won't be a choir any more but a pleasure. wi badger you are going to love your Bosch Vision 500 !!

Hi Sammy,

Glad to hear the Bosch is everything you hoped it would be. Thanks for sharing your experiences. My wife and I are getting so excited to get these machines! I hope you get many many years of flawless service!

Thanks Wi badger, I wish you the same, I will keep you guys posted as on all new developments concerning the Bosch vision 500 machines.

P.S. I forgot to mention earlier that the dryer was able to dry a large load of cloths in around 30 minutes, it first indicated that it would take 1 hour but as the cloths started to dry the machine re-adjusted itself and was able to finish in half the time about 30 minutes total, with my old machine the same load would take around 1 hour and 15 minutes.

Sammy and Wi Bager - looking for up dates on your Bosch's. I'm about to order the same set and I wanted to see if you were still happy. Thanks.

Regarding the Bosch Vision: Doesn't it offer a sensitive rinse (I don't think this is the same as extra rinse but I could be wrong) Seems I read somewhere that it was a deeper rinse to get rid of even more detergent. Since you guys have done much research on this machine, I figured I would ask :)

Bosch Vision has the allergy rinse. Supposed to get rid the last remnants of detergent for sensitive people.

I get mine Wed or so.

Angry and/or dissapointed customers write long diatribes on the net ASAP.

Happy customers usually fade away into the sweet night.

Hi Mark40511 and bigdogmom

I would love to offer an update but our renovations took longer than expected. The short version is that the new floors go in on Monday and Tuesday with the Bosch W&D being delivered on Friday. In fact we spent yet another Saturday morning at the laundromat..I can't wait to get these new units!!

That being said I would agree with deeageaux that those who are upset will be heard from while the happy parties go silent. As these units have been on the market longer I am seeing more reviews with a greater portion being positive.

I will be sure to check back after this coming weekend to post my initial impressions and then check back after some time to post a longer term review.

Good luck with your decision making process!

Mark40511 - from downloading and reading the manual, it is called an allergy rinse, but it appears to be a second rinse. At least that is how I read it. If you go to their site, you can download the users guide.

Wi Bager - can't wait to hear your review after next weekend, I'll be praying everything goes as planned.

For those that don't know me, don't get much time on here anymore due to some things that have occurred in our life, this forum directed me to my current washer, the Danby. I love that little guy, however the heater is going and they don't make them anymore. I tried to get a heater, but no luck, even direct from Danby. I also have a lot more laundry now than then, so onto a bigger size for me. I'm hoping I can cut my 16 loads a week down to 8 or less. I am spending waaaaay to much time doing laundry these days.

At long last...after months of waiting our Vision 500 series W&D were delivered at 8:15am Friday. It took them all of 15 minutes to unpackage, prep, and install both items. It only took me another hour after they left to get things setup correctly. Well its still not perfectly level but someone stole my level so perfection will have to wait.

As I expected they look beautiful in the space, even my general contractor commented on them. I spent most of the weekend washing anything and everything I could find from towels to delicates to heavy winter quilts and comforters.

**disclaimer** I am coming from a 20 year old top loader!

The washing machine is very quiet, not silent, but I didn't have to close the laundry room door to go about my day. The controls are easy to use and the manual has a great deal of easy to follow instructions. The loudest part of the cycle is filling with water. Even the final max spin is quiet (probably quieter with a proper level). Clothes did not ball up or twist and everything came out in as good a condition as it went in. I didn't run any of the xxtrasanitary modes or anything so I don't know how long those take (manual provides a detailed list of times) but a standard load takes 1 hour to wash.

I used 1 tablespoon of Charlie's Soap and that worked perfect for full loads but I noticed some suds on the final spin cycle on partial loads so for smaller loads I cut back to 1/2 tablespoon - problem solved and clothes are still clean!

The dryer is also great. It seems to default to a 1 hour dry time but then adjusts from there based on moisture remaining. The "regular dry" setting does leave a little dampness in the seams of jeans or heavier clothing but the next setting up (very dry or extra dry) leaves clothes completely dry. Even with regular dry they were dry by the time I finished folding them so no worries there. The dryer is slightly louder than the washer but its not an issue. Still no need to close the laundry room door. Clothes come out wrinkle free and smelling fresh...another kudos to Charlie's soap...no fabric softener used at all!

The only issue I have with the units is the end of cycle beep. It alerts you when the load is done and seems to continue alerting you every 30 seconds or so which can get very annoying when trying to work at home! But they can be turned off so its easily remedied.

I have not owned any other front loaders but I give these an A. Very happy with my purchase and I do like them much better than friends Electrolux units.

If you have specific questions let me know, I would be happy to answer them!

wi-badger - thanks for the great update on your new machines. I can't wait. Haven't been able to order them yet. one tip, getting the machine level is very important, you wouldn't want to harm it by running it out of level, so please either hunt down your level or go by a new one. I'm happy to hear they are running very quiet for you. I think you'll find you love the front loader. It is a transition that takes a bit of getting used to. You mentioned your amount of soap and that sounds fine, but you could also select the extra rinse if it seems you need to add more detergent in the future.

keep us posted after you use it for a bit.

hope this doesn't double post,

I forgot to mention - don't forget to leave your door open after you are done washing and do a hot load once a week too. Whites are perfect for this. I also leave my soap drawer open too for good air circulation. I do this all the time and have never had a problem with mold.

bigdogmom

Thanks for the info, I have been very diligent in wiping out the gasket and leaving the door open. I have read too many horror stories about the mold and odors! When I say it's out of level it is only out of "perfect level". I did have a small level to use but I know its not perfect yet. It could use another 16th here and there but I think its close enough to avoid damage.

I hope you get to order yours soon!

Equal weight on all four legs is just as important as leveling.

...just a fine tuning ;)

HOT means 140°F, otherwise oxygen bleaches that are in the powdered detergent can't work - and can't "struggle" those bacteria that develop mold.

To reassure you, can also say that here in europe I haven't ever seen anyone wiping out the gasket, but *until now* nobody has ever had mold issues.

I say *until now* cause detergent manufacturers lately are pushing people to the "cold wash only" mania.
No need to say appliance manufacturers are recovering this mania : latest frontloaders manuals give the very same Bigdogmom's advice

nclh77 wrote:
... The tub is not slanted so you get the whole bottom area for washing...Are you sure about this? I don't see "H-axis" anywhere on the web site, and all large front-loaders of this type utilize a slanted drum. Where did you see that it is a true H-axis machine?

I don't think they have (or have ever had) the drum-tilt info on their web site but my older Nexxt 500 certainly has a tilt. However, when I went and looked at the new Vision models they appeared to be *completely* horizontal, as far as I could tell, which was quite surprising. I was under the impression the only true-horizontal machines were the little EU ones (Asko, Miele) and Speed Queen but there it was, right out of New Bern NC! Between that, the different paddles (shorter), totally new detergent drawer and stackable design it is pretty clear the washer is a significant redesign vs. the previous generation.

The dryer, on the other hand, appeared to be very similar inside the drum to mine, having just a new control panel oustide.

Does the washer and dryer drum have the new "teardrop" design?

The only Bosch/Siemens washers with a tilted tub are the Nexxt series (here called Logixx 10 and still available). The Axxis are true H-axxis.

European residential frontloaders are usually true H-axxis. Only Electrolux makes some series with tilted axis = asse inclinato .

In a true horizontal axis design bearings have to cope with radial stress only. Tilted design involves also further axial stress for bearings. With small tilting angles is not an issue, but very tilted tub can't bear high spin speeds for decades

Not a case commercial frontloaders (expecially washer-extractors) have a true horizontal design. True, Westinghouse Laundromats were very slanted and lasted for decades... but they didn't spin at 1000 + rpm :)

A decade ago Candy Group introduced some very slanted series ( ) to emule the vintage slanted Hoover Keymatic design. Disappeared within 5 years

hidroman - upon examining these washers several times, the drum in the washer is round and is on an H axis. I have a Danby, eurostyle H axis and this one looks no different other than it is larger. This is the vision series, their newest. Check it out when you get a chance in person. Can't wait until I can order.

If the Bosch had a true h-axis drum, I think they would make a bigger deal about it because all of the other 4.0+ cuft machines have a tilted drum design. For instance, the Miele drum is tilted 8° It's barely noticeable, but when you fill it with water you'll see most of the water pool toward the rear of the drum.

Can anyone verify whether the Bosch Vision is a true h-axis machine? We know the Axxis series is true h-axis, but they are also much lower capacity and "euro-style". I don't think there are any American-style XL front-loaders that are h-axis. If the Vision is, Bosch is missing a huge marketing opportunity.

I find it plausible that h-axis might tangle less. It might be easier on bearings, but I assume Miele's engineers know this also, and used appropriate bearings for their tilted drum. But the thing about the whole bottom area for washing -- I couldn't believe when I saw the SQ ad saying that about their front-loader. Seems to me that washing takes place in the saturated load throughout the drum, even if tilted.

I have read on another forum that this is a true H machine. Someone also stated that the ALLERGY RINSE came up to the glass door. Can you confirm this? Thanks

Mark, the machine in the video is the BOSCH WAS 24422 IT Logixx 8 VarioPerfect (latest Axxis sold in Europe) with skin care option selected : rinse level up to 1/3 glass, 4 rinses. Really hope that in New Bern they had the same mindset ......

I'm talking about US machines. Not Euro machines. Euro machines always use more water so you really can't compare the two.

Hi, we're looking at these to replace our Frigidaire front loader. Will pull the trigger tomorrow to get a rebate but we are hoping you can answer a question for us.

For hot and warm washes, we use a cold rinse. We can't find anything in the Bosch manual or on-line that addresses this. Manual for the GE6800 (other option) very clearly says that rinse will always be with cold.

We wonder if the Eco Option is intended to address this, but this option doesn't seem to be sufficient to make the water cold.

Help would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I believe when I read the manual a few times it did mention a cold rinse. I would go to the bosch site and down load the manual again. It has a chart that shows pretty much what is what. Actually, I was concerned because I don't think I saw a warm rinse available and I'd like that.

I hope I am in the right place, I am new to posting. I recently purchased the Bosch vision 500 washer and dryer, and love the washer, however nothing ever comes out of the dryer very dry (I should say slightly damp)! It does not matter what setting is attempted. I get none of the error messages that I have read about. My vent tube is 7 feet long with one 90 degree bend and all is brand new. Should I panic, I have had the pair for just over a month, any suggestions

Hmmm... doesn't sound right, mickdpt. A few things to consider:

1. What setting are you using? If you're using "Damp Dry", then it's supposed to leave the clothes a bit damp -- it assumes you want to iron them afterwards. If you're using Normal, only ligher materials will be completely dried. Heavier fabrics like jeans will still be a little damp around the stitching and pockets. This is by design. For bone dry, use the other settings.

2. After about 3 minutes of usage at Normal setting, is the inside of the dryer at least warm? If not, then it's a good indication that a service call is in order.

3. Moist clothes are a sign of poor ventilation. When I first got my Bosch Vision 500 dryer, I had a similar problem to what you describe. However, my unit *was* giving me the error messages (I got a couple different ones). Turns out that the louvres (the little horizontal flaps) on my vent hood outside, were warped and stuck shut from the heat of my previous dryer. I physically bent them open, and the errors went away. So I learned that you definitely need a clear vent path in order for all of the moisture to escape.

Check if that's the problem; you can test by detaching the vent pipe entirely, then drying a load of clothes (it's perfectly safe once or twice -- just make sure the room has adequate ventelation). If that solves the issue, then do the following:

a)Check your vent pipe for any obstructions
b)Check your vent hood outside to see if the flaps (louvres) are openening and closing easily
c)If possible and appropriate, replace your flexible foily corregated pipe with rigid piping (7 feet isn't unreasonable, unless it's 100% flexible foil piping -- this is a no-no according to the documentation).

It's been several months now...are you all still happy with your Bosch Vision series 500 washer/dryers? Would love to know...thanks!

I just set up my new Bosch Vision series 500 washer/dryer. I'm trying to do the initial wash without cloths and no water will enter the washer. I then get a E:13 error message about 15 min into the cycle. I put old non-aquastop hoses on and still no water. I have a well pump that operates from 35psi to 50 psi. Any Suggestions???

I have a Bosch and yes its very quiet, but the one I have has a very small drum so I'm looking to get larger one. It's almost 10 years old but starting to not spin as well as it did. Hope this helps