Weighing options: upgrade or wait?

16 years ago

Hi. Currently have a pair of 17-year old Carrier AC units mated to a pair of Carrier Weathermaker 8000 gas furnaces. 'fraid I don't have model #s handy but I assume the ACs are 8- or 10-SEER and I think the furnaces are rated at 80%. The ACs leak a combined 3-4 lbs of R22 per year but otherwise the systems are trouble free. *knocks on wood*

I'm considering replacements or upgrades.

I figure I have the following options:

1) Do nothing until something breaks. I expect inflation will spike in the next few years after the economy gets back on track so I might wind up getting burned by waiting. Then again, once the TCs expire, perhaps prices will drop...

2) Replace the ACs and evaporators, keep the existing furnaces and air handlers.

3) Replace the ACs with HPs, keep the existing furnaces and configure for a dual-fuel hybrid setup.

[Since my air handlers aren't variable speed, I'm told that neither (2) nor (3) would achieve a high enough SEER rating to qualify for the TC]

4) Replace one AC+furnace combo, replace the other sometime in the future.

5) Replace everything. This will likely be financially unfeasible.

Energy costs in this region (central KY) are relatively low. Over the last 4-5 years, I estimate my annual heating+cooling costs are somewhere between $1000-$1800 for 2400 sqft. So I don't really expect a high efficiency replacement would ever pay for itself in energy savings unless both gas and electric rates went through the roof. Now, that said, once R22 becomes scarce replacing 3-4 pounds per year might get spendy...

So far, I've only had a couple HVAC contractors come out to give estimates and one of those is still pending. Additional estimate is scheduled for early next week.

The contractor that did come out presented the following:

For option (2):

2 Bryant 113ANA-024 AC

2 Bryant CNPHP2417ATA cooling coils

(13 SEER, 24k BTU R410a matched AC system)

$5930

For option (3):

2 Bryant 213BNA-024 HP

2 Bryant CNPHP2417ATA HP coils

(13 SEER, 24K BTU R410a matched dual fuel systems)

$7995

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Comments (4)

zippyhvac
16 years ago
Option 4:)

R-22 gauge set with hoses $79 (Ebay)
30# Jug of R-22 $100-150 (current craigslist price in PHX)

Total? $229...

TEN MORE YEARS OF COOLING GOODNESS?

priceless...

Good luck!
tigerdunes
16 years ago
arcas

I like the idea of of the 13 SEER heat pump for your area/climate. However, the upgrade from the AC to the HP condenser of $1000 per unit is on the high side.

Also, is the dealer installing new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset and dual fuel stat?

of course you will be leaving on the table the HVAC tax credit. perhaps you should consider replacing the worst of the two systems to get the credit.

IMO
Good Luck!
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arcas
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks for the responses. Since my original post, I've received two more estimates.

So far, it's looking like $1000 to upgrade from the AC to the HP condenser is the lowest. The quotes I've received have ranged from $1000 to $1900 premium per unit. It's interesting that these premiums are substantially higher than others posted in this forum...

Regarding the linesets: it's all over the map. One contractor wants to replace the linesets (running the new 2nd floor coil's lineset up the side of the house...I worry about the aesthetics but I suppose it can be disguised). Two contractors want to flush and reuse the existing linesets. The fourth contractor wants to reuse only the vertical section of the lineset that goes to the 2nd floor coil.

The contractor who delivered today's estimate was pretty dead-set on replacing both existing furnaces with new 80% Carrier units. He says the difference between my old 80% units and the new 80% units is "night and day" but I'm skeptical...Besides a warranty, is there really anything to be gained from replacing an older single-speed furnace with a new one (also single-speed) with an identical AFUE rating?

(As an aside: it seems that contractors are reluctant to simply provide price lists so that one can see the relative costs between various options. It would be nice to look at a price sheet and crunch numbers for various future energy price scenarios to see which setup works best for me over the long run.

Of the four contractors that have come out, only one had any sort of price sheet with various configurations and it was limited to complete systems: furnace+AC/HP...)
zippyhvac
16 years ago
R22 is going to continue to be manufactured until 2020 - it is likely to go up a bit in price, but not like r12 did, there is no tax on it like r12 had. It is possible to buy a 30# jug now and stuff it in a corner of your garage until you need it, if your worried about it - the HVAC guys may not like it, but you only need ONE honest installer to work with you.

Based on the info you've provided, (heating & cooling costs of under $1800/yr) -I just don't see any "upgrade" paying off in less than 10 years in your situation - and you really can't count on a lifespan of more than 10 years, because outside of warranty, you'll be getting the same repair cost/upgrade dilemma again.

If any of your quotes are from the guy who was dumping 3-4 pounds of refrigerant into your systems every year, and not fixing the leaks, toss that quote in the trash. It's a rare leak that takes more than a few minutes to find with the proper tools, and on the second trip there is NO excuse - he's a HACK.

Linesets are NOT expensive - I bought a 50' 1-1/8" lineset over the net for $200, that lineset is likely WAY bigger than you need. I had a quote of $125 on one of my estimates for just the flushing agent to re-use my old lines - seems really silly. HVAC guys are loath to bust drywall, but if it is necessary, drywall is widely available, easily repaired, and costs $6 a sheet around here. It's likely you've got other drywall issues somewhere in your home anyway - hire a drywaller to fix everything @ once - they're alot cheaper per hour than HVAC guys, and don't seem to be nearly as whiney.

New 80% furnace more efficient than old 80% furnace? - LYING HACK, toss his estimate in the trash too.

A cost sheet would be nice, but that's why there isn't one - these guys make money like any other business, and they'll gladly take whatever you'll pay. If you want an education on profit margins, type the the size of your prospective unit into a search on Ebay. A 2-ton, 15 seer (payne) heat pump with air handler can be had for around $2000 delivered, and it's tax-credit eligible - the rest of your $4k per unit retail cost is labor & profit.