Help with Heating Cooling Cleaning System Selection

18 years ago

Hi,

My wife and I live in the SF Bay Area (Orinda, Ca). We have 5 month old twins. The recent heat waves have been really hard on the babies. We need to add central AC.

We have had five local HVAC guys look at our house. All of them have recommended that we replace our furnace as well. We have an 11 yr old, 80% efficient, single-stage furnace. New legislation in California requires duct sealing (~$1200) and an inspection (~$500) when adding AC to an 80% furnace.

All five contractors have recommended 90% furnaces. We have narrowed the group to two. Both are very reputable local HVAC companies. Our house is 2500 sq ft with west facing windows and several large skylights.

System #1 includes the Trane XV95 furnace, xl14i 4-ton AC , and CleanEffects build-in system. $12,300 fully installed with 10 years parts/2 years labor waranty.

System #2 includes the Ruud 94% modulating/variable speed furnace with built-in filter and a 4 ton, 13 Seer AC. $11,649 fully installed with 5 yrs parts and 5 yrs labor waranty (This estimate did not include model numbers - I am going to request this)

Clean air and consistant room-to-room temps are really important to us. The system #2 guy is really pushing the modulating (13 stage) system. I don't really understand its benefits over the 2-stage system from Trane. Also, the two waranties are very different.

Any recommendations on which system to go with would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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Comments (7)

yoyoma
18 years ago
I don't have an answer but I'm interested in finding out these reputable HVAC companies since I am planning on doing something similiar and live nearby. If there is anyway you can email me that would be great. Thanks.
ryanhughes
18 years ago
First things first: How was the system (particularly the A/C) sized? It's important to have the system sized properly, and a good contractor will perform a load calculation to determine sizing (no square foot rule of thumbs, etc.).

Either of those systems should be fine, but the modulating furnace wins for comfort, as long as it has the thermostat that can control the modulation. Ask for the model numbers as well as the thermostat type (for both systems for that matter)--especially for the A/C because Ruud has some good ones lower-grade ones. This is coming from someone who is partial to Trane equipment. Extended parts and labor warranties should be available. :-)

Electronic air cleaners do require some maintenance. A good 4-5" pleated media filter should do the job just fine (AprilAire 2200 or Honeywell F100).

When you can, post the model numbers for the A/C, furnace, and coil for each setup, as well as the thermostat included.

Having exposed ductwork sealed is important for efficiency as well. I would make sure that each company will seal the ducts around the unit and all other exposed ductwork.

Also, I thought the XL14i was being discontinued, but it is probably still available.

I suggest that you go with equipment that uses R410A refrigerant.

Good luck. Looks like those California prices are at their best.
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pat_megan
Original Author
18 years ago
OK, thanks for the input.

The RUUD guy gave me the model# for the furnance #vgfd09N2cms. He said it has an internal filtration/cleaning system similiar to Trane CleanEffects. I had trouble getting the AC model # from him.

The Trane system uses Honeywell TH832ou1008 Themostat and and an aluminum Expansion "spine fin" coil in the AC.

Trane xl141 system has one model with R410A and another with r22. I'm checking to see which system he quoted me. What is the advantage of R410A?

I'm very close to going with the Trane system. Mainly b/c the salesperson has been more honest and upfront. His company has been around since 1937 and has installed two furnances at my Moms house. Plus I'm not sure I really need a 13 stage modulating furnace.

BTW, anyone know why Trane suppliers in CA are not offering 10/10 waranties, not it sounds other states are? I was offered 10 parts/2 labor.
tigerdunes
18 years ago
pat,

if Trane, go with the XL15i, a better AC model.

what evap coil? it matters as it impacts your efficiency/ performance numbers.

what stat?

IMO
ryanhughes
18 years ago
I agree with tiger on the XL15i. The XL14i is supposed to be phased out (not that it is a huge deal, but if you're replacing, I'd go with something more current/modern--perhaps just the R22 XL14i is being phased out; I'd have to look into it). Going with a R410a system is the way to go--environmentally friendly and the prices of R22 are rising. After 2010, no more R22 systems can be manufactured. Might be a mistake on the model numbers. For Bay Area CA, I don't think you need a 15 SEER A/C come to think of it, though it is a nice model. You should ask for a price on the XR13. It's very important to have actual model numbers (not model names) of all equipment. Sizing is very important, too--for both heating and cooling. Oversized equipment tends to have a shortened lifespan and costs more money to operate. Undersized equipment can leave you uncomfortable.
pat_megan
Original Author
18 years ago
OK, the Trane guy is checking to see which model, r22 or r410a, he quoted. He said there is not cost difference, just availability. Thanks for the heads up.

The evap coil is aluminum and made by Trane, not 3rd party.

He's also checking on pricing for the 15 seer. He thinks its $500 more expensive. Worth it? He hadn't heard that the 14 seer is being phased out. He's looking into that as well. He was with another client.

Anyway, thanks for the info.
ryanhughes
18 years ago
The 14 SEER XLi unit is likely widely available still. I had just heard that they were phasing it out (albeit it may be slowly), and I'm not sure if it's just the R22 version or both. Do you need a lot of A/C in your area? If you only use it a couple months out of the year or so, then I'd stick to the 13/14 SEER models as I don't see the payback on the 15 SEER units unless you want them for some other reason.

One last question to ask the guy: How did he come up with your sizing? Hopefully with a load calculation.