I should mention this one-man independent installer has NO overhead (no office or workers, etc) as a HVAC company would. He installed our furnace 15 yrs ago and did a fine job and has been installing AC's for well over 25 years.

This is a dirty business - lots of guys out there who'll charge a thousand an hour and a few that charge $50...

Overhead includes more than employees, fwiw.

$250/hr sounds high, but how many hours? If he's just hacking in a coil and a condenser it'll likely take 4-6 hours. Do you know his cost for equipment? He's likely doubling the dollars on that as well..

zippy:

Thanks for the reply. He didn't give us a breakdown but we're gonna ask for one. We went online and priced out the condenser, coil and such. My husband added it up with a bit of lee-way. The contractor said it would take a 1/2 day - (I'd think 5-6). However, when my husband subtracted the equipment $$, the leftover $$ came out to $250/hour labor AND my husband based that on 8 hours of labor, so technically, it's alot more if the job only takes 5-6 hrs.

You're probably right about him marking up the equipment.

This guy works at the same company as my husband (in another field) and has been installing AC for 25+ years. He used to work for an HVAC company a long time ago for 14 years and has been doing it on the side every since. As I said, he is licensed and insured. He said he would well-beat the larger companies, but in fact, is $400 higher than our oil company who also gave us a quote.

Does sound extremely high for a guy working out of his garage with no overhead!

by NO OVERHEAD, do you mean he doesn't have a license, insurance, truck expense, tools, phone, advertising, etc etc. The NO OVERHEAD guys will usually run about 20% overhead. Industry average is about 30-35%. Other companies are well above 35%. I wouldn't worry about an hourly rate, just a bottom line. I've seen contractors charge actual cost for the equip to keep sales tax to a minimum and put the rest on the "labor number". Compare bottom line to other quotes.

You're paying for knowledge, not time. Companies that charge time and material make the most money off of their most incompetent service techs.

get somebody else. Call some contractors over the phone and tell them what you want to pay. (say $500 for 10 hours of work or something).

Some contractors will tell you to stick it - others may not be as busy and will take the job. Make sure they are licensed. Ask them questions like how many microns do they run the vaccuum down till. Or if they use a wet rag when brazing so the intense heat doesn't travel to valve's or other places and does damage.

Since you are digging a pad, I assume there is no existing condenser to be replaced. Sounds like the guy has to run a line set from the condenser location to the furnace, which requires labor and materials.

Someone, either the installer or a licensed electrician, has to run power out there. That's more labor and materials.

A permit or two will be required and must be paid for. Getting a permit takes time (labor hours). Permits can be cheap or outrageously expensive, depending on jurisdiction.

Did you include any of this in your calculations. If not, then your $250 an hour is way off.

Did this tech take the time to look at the job and work up a quote? Does he continue his education to stay current with new equipment? Does he walk to the job or does he have a vehicle? Tools? You said he's licensed, I assume insured also. Warranty coverage for his labor and any parts he supplies? Experience? Reputation?

Is this his only source of income or does he also have a full time job for benefits such as health insurance, 401K or similar, profit sharing?

I used to be a one man operation and had to make a bundle every month just to cover the "no overhead". Vehicle never breaks down, runs on air, never needs maintenance? Tires last forever?

I suppose if I'd never been there I'd feel the same way. I don't mean to put you down but for some reason HVAC seems to be one of those occupations that folks feel should be a low income job. I see similar posts on other websites and it seems to be widespread.

I would agree that sometimes the "cheap" guy costs alot more than the "expensive" one. It sounds like the OP has figured out HOW the installer is getting paid - if he's figuring a day, that's certainly possible, especially since there's always something that pops up that you never expect.

$250/hr might be fair if you actually get a full day's expertise out of him. I had a guy out to work on mine for $50/hr, but it took way longer than it should have and I ended up cleaning up after him - However, he was able to weld, and pull a vacuum - two things I didn't have the capability of doing myself.

I'm not saying the job should pay like Taco Bell, but many of the quotes I got on my job were 2X cost for parts, plus $200 - $500 per hour(and some of the guys were quoting obvious shortcuts that impaired the quality of the job - re-using lines that were too small, leaving the condenser where it interfered with using my yard, etc.) None of the "pros" I talked to on my place suggested correcting the obvious return-air problems I had - even though they wanted alot of money for their time.

In my case, it was just easier to treat the HVAC guy as a sub - buy my own parts, and do some of the work myself - no one was interested in quality, so I picked the cheap guy and watched him like a hawk. Most people probably couldn't handle the hassle, or invest the time to learn what is proper and correct, and what is a bad install.

It isn't rocket-science and there's no reason to pay these guys like rock-stars. HVAC equipment isn't expensive if you know where to buy, and no one should need to mortgage their house for an appliance.

The OP's deal doesn't sound terrible - they have someone they trust to do a decent job, and the price isn't really that bad, considering they have some idea of what the finished product will be.

One of the things I've learned over the years is that sometimes buying the equipment and hiring someone to install it can be more expensive than just letting them buy it and install it. If the homeowner buys the equipment they are responsible for any warranty issues, plus additional labor if there is a problem. If the installer buys it and there's a problem the labor is on them.

Another issue is whether the homeowner has purchased the correct parts for the job. If the installer makes the wrong choice it's on them but usually they'll have a good enough relationship with the supply house that they can return them. Homeowner makes the wrong choice they may or may not be able to make a swap. The big boxes have a pretty good policy on that but I'm leery of the quality of some things sold there.

$2k per DAY is more than my doctor or lawyer charge, and they went to school for a long time too. Calling this small business owner "blue collar" is really torturing the term. In my area, right now, I can hire carpenters, painters, tile setters, plumbers and electricians for less than $500 a day - they all have similar pickup trucks, insurance rates and overhead, and they all spent years learning their trades.

I don't make $2k a day, most other trades don't make $2k a day, most executives don't make $2k a day.

As for "you won't have any problems", well, if I had went with the high-priced guys, I would have had problems - it was evident from their quotes that they weren't looking out for my interests, so I picked the cheap one and gained the knowledge myself to ensure the job was done properly.

HVAC guys have had the benefit of a couple of years of government-subsidized sales at taxpayer's expense. Even with the government hand-outs they still want to whine and cry and stomp their feet about how "cheap" their customers are.

Name any other industry that has garnered as much government subsidy per dollar spent. There aren't many, besides Amtrak and solar energy, and at least solar energy makes a little sense.

Grow up and enjoy the free cheese while it lasts.

To the O.P., stick to your guns.

I live in Westchester County in NY. I was charged $2700 to replace a 2-ton condenser unit. All electric, duct work, air handler, line set, etc. was in place and re-used. It was the owner and 2 assistants that did the install. They were there for 2 hours. DID I GET RIPPED-OFF??

2700 to replace it? did it include the actual condenser? those run between 700-900 new. I would not pay more than 500 to swap out a condenser. it's already there, just solder two pipes, leak/pressure test it, pull a vacuum and done. you were ripped off.

buying a new furnace is like buying a new car, but many abuse folk who don't know and recommend replacements when units are totally repairable.

I am replacing my system because it's 30+ years old, and lived long. it doesn't make sense and is mismatched if I just replace the condenser. Found myself a whole system less than two years old on craigslist and going to shop around installers until I find one that rings honest and knows to cover the valves, and bring it down to vacuum. also ask them if they use Nitrogen to braze (solder). If they don't keep looking.

I would like to know on what one should consider a fair price for installation of 2 - 2 ton units, full replacement. Swap out old with new no new duct work, or lines. I want to be fair. I am purchasing the units separately. I am ini the Tulsa Oklahoma area.

Better to start your own thread as bump someone else's oldie.

I've heard tell that in many areas, the better contractors won't install equipment they didn't sell. Warranty provisions may be different as well. For whatever the reason.

If you have an equipment problem a year from now, who are you going to call?

Thanks and agreed.

You dont go to school and learn a trade to give your skills away.Do people call around an ask for the cheapest Dr they can find?