Price is okay for what you're getting. I would certainly make sure you get the ATA tin-plated copper coil (that's at the end of the model for the coil). Make sure the system is sized properly. How many BTU's is that furnace? Can't tell if it's 66k or 135k. Proper sizing is very important as I'm sure you know. 2-stage cooling is good for comfort and humidity control, and with the Evolution system would be a very nice addition. I would spring for it if you can afford the contractor's extra cost, but the 165A is still a nice unit. Lineset replacement isn't necessary in many cases and in some cases just isn't easily done. Make sure they're properly flushed and are the correct size.

Contractor did say they always use tin plated coil.

Furnace size? I'm not sure. We literally did not run this furnace at all last winter so I think the smaller the better (we have two systems and did run the other). I'll find out but for now I'm assuming it is the 66k.

Thanks for the quick response. The contractor should be here shortly...

glenn

a very nice system. I would hope price includes the Infinity/Evolution controller.

907644 Active Systems PREFERRED 15 PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 165ANA048-A CNPH*6024A** 315(A,J)AV066155 47500 13.00 15.00

you want a properly sized furnace but blower must be rated four ton to support your AC size.

As far as Evolution two stg AC condenser, I would expect an upgrade around $750-$1000.

Keep in mind rebates will probable be available in the fall.

IMO

tigerdunes,
Yes, it includes the Evolution controller. Contractor just told me the upgrade to 187 (two stage) would be less than $1000. He is emailing me a quote later today.

Thanks for the headsup on the rebates but I can't wait until fall. Old system is dead (and I'm in Houston).

Just got the written (emailed) quote. How's this look? I'm inclined to go with Option #2.

Option #1
Bryant 165ANA-048 Condenser unit (14.00 SEER ARI rated) using the new 410A refrigerant
Bryant CSPHP4812ATA Tin Coated Evaporator Coil with Thermostatic Expansion Valve
Bryant 315AAV048-090 2-Stage 80%AFUE rated Furnace with Variable Speed Blower
Bryant SYSTXBBUID01-B Evolution humidity controlling Thermostat
Run new thermostat wire to Master Bedroom
Install another 20"X 25" Filter Grill & Filter above current filter grill
Install a new metal transition from new coil to existing furnace with an inspection door
Install a new supply air plenum
Replace four existing duct lines from plenum to where they drop in to duct chases
Replace overflow pan and install a safety overflow switch for added water leak protection
Replace main drain line and add an EZ Clear drain clean out for easier drain service
Use existing electrical disconnect for new condenser, run new PVC conduit to new condenser
Re-insulate outdoor suction line from wall to new condenser
Use existing support pad under new condenser unit
Manufactures warranty Condenser compressor 10 year & parts 5 year, Furnace 20 year heat exchanger & 5 year parts, Evaporator Coil 10 year,

Price $ 8,968.00


Option #2 (Similar to Option #1 except substitute condenser unit as follows:
Bryant 187ANA-048 2-Stage Condenser unit (15.00 SEER ARI rated) using the new 410A refrigerant

Price $ 9,483.00

I'd go with the 2nd. option for the 2-stage cooling. Ask the contractor how he sized the furnace. 90k btu's is a lot for not using much heat. Oversizing the furnace is not a good thing, nor is it a good thing to oversize the A/C.

glenn

here are the matching AHRI performance numbers with the Evolution 17 two stg AC condenser.

875553 Active Systems EVOLUTION 17 PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 187ANA048-A CNPH*6024A** 315(A,J)AV048090 47500 11.20 15.50 1 RCU-A-CB

Compare to the Preferred 15 AC system configuration.

907644 Active Systems PREFERRED 15 PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 165ANA048-A CNPH*6024A** 315(A,J)AV066155 47500 13.00 15.00

humm...

you may marginally see some difference in savings and comfort with the two stg.

Is it worth it? your decision...

IMO

Tiger, you used the wrong coil. :)

875660 Active Systems EVOLUTION 17 PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 187ANA048-A CSPH*4812A** 315(A,J)AV048090 47000 11.00 15.00

909118 Active Systems PREFERRED 15 PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 165ANA048-A CSPH*4812A** 315(A,J)AV048090 47000 12.00 14.00

Everyone, thanks for your input.

The furnace is supposed to be sized based on it being the smallest available variable speed for that line compatible with the rest of the system.

So the "upgrade" is an increase in SEER and a decrease in EER? Not a surprise but I didn't actually know that. From this forum I have learned that the EER may be more important in measuring efficiency (especially in a hot climate like Houston).

But, (and I'm saying this so I can be corrected if wrong) I still think it makes sense based on two stage cooling being more comfortable (more even temperature distribution and more dehumidification -- although worse efficiency on "hot/very hot" days).

And, we have vague thoughts of possibly converting this into a zoned system down the road and two stage cooling would be better for that -- right?. This system handles 1.5 rooms on the first floor (master bedroom +) and all of the second floor (mostly bedrooms). The second floor is often unoccupied. Does this make sense? We're not zoning it now because we're not sure it is needed and $$$.

I'll also confess to not requiring a manual J calc. This house has had a series of additions over the years. If it turns out the system is oversized I have some currently un-air conditioned space that I can add to it; if it is undersized I can remove some space from it and/or improve insulation. From this forum I have come to not trust the J Calc anyway (not the message intended, I think). By that, I mean a J Calc done by a contractor can be fudged to match his gut and I would not know the difference anyway. So, I went with his gut. I also think I have some leeway if it is oversized because of the variable speed and two stage and evolution control. Am I being rational?

Also,
IF the two-stage cooling dehumidifies more, and,
IF we are therefore comfortable at a higher temperature, and,
IF we therefore set the thermostat at a higher temperature,
THEN we would actually realize an efficiency gain with the two stage over the single stage that is not already factored into the ratings. If that is correct I suspect it is a small gain. But, is that a valid line of thought?

Also, what about scroll vs. reciprocating. Option #2 is reciprocrating. I've read lots of low opinions on this forum for recip.

They have the same warranties but I am concerned that over time, the compressor performance could degrade but not actually break...leaving us with less cold air or worse efficiency (higher electric bills)...

On the other hand, the recip is about a 50/50 split which would be nice if we did later zone....

glenn

pls verify the mdl and size of the evap coil being quoted.

it makes a difference for the performance/eff ratings of the system.

IMO

I believe these are correct:
875660 Active Systems EVOLUTION 17 PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 187ANA048-A CSPH*4812A** 315(A,J)AV048090 47000 11.00 15.00

909118 Active Systems PREFERRED 15 PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 165ANA048-A CSPH*4812A** 315(A,J)AV048090 47000 12.00 14.00

From the "written quote" above:
Option #1
Bryant 165ANA-048 Condenser unit (14.00 SEER ARI rated) using the new 410A refrigerant
Bryant CSPHP4812ATA Tin Coated Evaporator Coil with Thermostatic Expansion Valve
Bryant 315AAV048-090 2-Stage 80%AFUE rated Furnace with Variable Speed Blower
Bryant SYSTXBBUID01-B Evolution humidity controlling Thermostat

Option #2 (Similar to Option #1 except substitute condenser unit as follows:
Bryant 187ANA-048 2-Stage Condenser unit (15.00 SEER ARI rated) using the new 410A refrigerant

Glenn, you're on the right track with your thinking. Setting the thermostat higher can give you more energy efficiency. The low stage is more efficient. The units are rated at high stage. I'd go for the reciprocating compressor, especially if you're considering zoning. It has a lower capacity, which is better for dehumidifying as it will run longer. Also, if your zones are going to be smaller, then it would be better to have around 55% capacity going to them rather than 75% capacity (rough values). The reciprocating Evolution has been a high seller, and I would not be concerned with the compressor wearing out. Compressors don't usually go bad unless they are killed by other issues.

for Ryan

you know these Carrier/Bryant coils much better than I do.

Would Glenn be better off with the larger evap coil "CSPH*6012A**?

TD

I think for a 2-stage system he would be better off with sticking to the same nominal capacity.even though the 5-ton coil would give him a little more efficiency. Usually, the larger the evap. coil, the less latent capacity, and on low stage this is even more of a concern.

Tiger,

I just checked Bryant's product data for both matchups, and it looks like the larger coil will gain him a little more efficiency and not increase the low stage capacity (nominal capacity, not sure about specific SHR). I would assume that the larger coil would run warmer and have less latent capacity, but I can't be certain. Either coil should be okay to use. Using a 5-ton coil on a 4-ton system is not uncommon.

Ryan and Tiger,

Thanks again! You and this forum have been a big help.

I'm going to go with Option #2. (I'm not ignoring the larger coil issue but it sounds like a minimal difference). If it seems like I'm rushing through this, I am. I want to get the new system installed. Much of our house is uncomfortable to uninhabitable with only the one (2 ton) system working.

Glenn42,
Can I get your contactor's contact info if you don't mind? We are west just outside of 610 and have a 1 story house with approx 2700sqft. We want to replace the existing AC which only covers about 2000sqft area and I would like to install a 2-zone system rather than install two AC units. You can email me at write2ling@hotmail.com. Thanks!