I don't understand what the big deal is, my friends and I tend to not really do anything for birthdays. When I turned 50, it was a little different because it was a big birthday. We went out to dinner for that one and people did send cards. I think they also did it because it was a *traumatic* birthday for me...first time I ever cared about a birthday so much. But normally we don't do anything for birthdays. Gosh, my husband and I (married nearly 30 years) don't even do anything for anniversaries! We always forget the date, actually. A couple weeks will pass and we'll be like "did we miss that darned anniversary again?" However, having said that, if I had a friend who got loads of pleasure from having a card sent, and if this was a really good friend, I would probably go out of my way to post a reminder in my calendar and get a card out to him/her. It seems that this is so simple really. It's hard to understand sometimes just why this matters so much to certain people but I've always thought that, if something matters that much to someone I care about, I don't have a big problem respecting that and modifying my behavior a little. Maybe this person didn't have much fuss made over her birthday growing up and has not outgrown her craving for the attention now. In any event, I think that if a friendship was important enough to me I would make what is, in reality, a very small accomodation for someone's particular quirks (and would hope they would do the same for me!)

Seems to me that this person may just be joshing with you and you're taking it a completely different way. I can banter with people like that and they know it's silly and means nothing. Heck I do it to my husband and he forgets my birthday every year. I send him emails saying "guess what day last tuesday was" to which he answered, "did I forget to order the oil" WHAT??? See what I mean, people have different intentions and you can't really read in an email if they're joshing or serious. She may think it's funny that you always forget. You should ask her.

"But I know how much it means to her."

That's the phrase I keep reading in ellendi's comment, but I'm going to take it out of context here.

I think you're just taking the easy cop-out to say to her "Oh, that's just the way that I am -- sorry."

Judithn is right: Why couldn't you try one simple reminder trick on a day that is important to her? Clearly it hurts her to think you didn't care to even call her to wish her a nice day. Put a note on the fridge. Set your cellphone alarm. It's not that difficult. In fact, you're spending more time coming up with retorts and excuses.

Whether you make a fuss about your own birthday or not is one thing, but on her birthday it's not about you.

Pal, it may be more significant if the person means more to you, is a better friend than another one, etc. If it's not a *close* family member, or a friend who is like a sister/brother that you've had for years, I don't understand all the fuss.

When I turned 70, and my very best friend of 50+ years called to wish me a happy birthday saying she had to still get her gift in the mail, I never felt slighted. At this stage of my life a gift is irrelevant.

If she doesn't have family or isn't close to family, she may be relying on you for the simple reason she wants someone to 'care'. Would it be too difficult to pacify her one day a year? Set the date on your cell phone and an alarm will go off with a reminder.

"If she can't accept this small trait of yours, then it is time for both of you to move on."

I agree with the above; it seems to me like she wants to win this battle, she wants you to eventually remember her day and arrive with a gift. And the more she pushes for that, the more you will be rebuffed and ignore her birthday.

Feeling an obligation to do something is not fun, feeling you "owe" that person something is not fun either, for me that's a sign that some distancing is necessary, it's happened to me with certain friends who had high expectations of what I should do for them.

I think birthdays are best celebrated by adults at the decade mark. We have a family member who gives herself a birthday party every year, and presents are very welcome. Her family was poor and not very happy (separate problems, I know) and I guess she never got enough stuff or affirmation growing up. That's why we try to be understanding about this little quirk, although at times it was embarrassing for the rest of us.

DH and I have been invited to big, splashy 50th birthday parties where there was a "cover" charge -----held at a resort, open bar, 70's tribute band, etc.----which is shockingly bad form. We've always declined to pay for the privilege of attending a birthday party.

I've decided that in this world there are people who think that it is imperative that every significant event be recognized with a card, etc.on the exact day (or, preferably, dropped off a day ahead) and people who think it is nice if you do remember, but that this is not required and often feel it is over the top to do so.

I think either way is fine, but, unfortunately, those who think it is imperative tend to judge those who don't pretty harshly.

My in-laws are celebrators of every occasion. I am not. In my family, my mother rarely remembers my birthday and wouldn't have a clue of the date of my wedding anniversary. I think it is extremely odd that my in laws make a big deal out of our anniversary every year. To me, it is for my husband and I to celebrate together and is a bit of a private thing. However, having said that, I realize this is their way and I would never put them off by commenting on that to them. It took me years to figure out a system with one of those birthday calendars, so that noses don't get out of joint. I realized that they are always going to think I"m being rude if I don't come over to their camp and become a celebrator. I do my best, but it does not come naturally. If I think about it, I must say I do hold a bit of resentment that they assume my way is wrong and their way is right, so it is I who must change. I still forget this or that event, but hope that my other virtues make up for it in their eyes. And I do the same for them (I really would like to be free to celebrate -or not - my anniversary alone with my dh) in order to keep the peace with people I love, but who are not like me.

I think your friend was in the wrong to remind you every year and by doing so, assume that her way is right and yours is wrong, but you were also wrong to send the email and I don't blame her for being offended. Do you want to stay friends with this woman? If so, you do need to apologize face to face. And when you do, you need to have a conversation about the two different ways of celebrating events. Explain to her that it doesn't mean you like her any less or don't value her friendship. See if she will agree to a truce over this where you both agree not to worry about each others birthdays as a way of maintaining a friendship.

I think Pammyfay raised the most important point--it's not the birthday, it is that this is something important to your friend, and thus you perpetually forgetting/ignoring it hurts her feelings. So IMO the meta issue here is whether or not this person means enough to you that you are willing to make the effort to please her by recognizing that this is important to her and therefore you are willing to take a bit of effort to acknowledge and honor that. And that is what makes relationships work.

If in your judgment it isn't worth it to you then that is certainly your decision to make. However I think one always has to recognize and take responsibility for one's part of any social dynamic. If you decide that it's not worth it, ie that the annoyance of having her berate you when she feels hurt isn't as important to you as not expending energy to remember her special day, then you should not be surprised or hurt or annoyed that she lashes out. It's what people do when they feel hurt and people feel hurt when they are forcibly reminded that someone they care about doesn't care enough about them to make them happy.

Really, to me this is a very simple dynamic. No need to trick it up with long winded explanations or worse, justifications about what an annoying or needy person the friend is. Just be honest with yourself and either acknowledge that you don't care enough to make an effort or decide that you do care enough to make an effort to do something you know will please a friend. Then do whichever action follows from that decision. Oh, and if you don't care enough then own that and don't whine or complain about the reaction you get if she is hurt!

While I understand your explanation on its merits, I have to say that you are correctly viewed as a nincompoop for not being able to execute this fairly simple task.

I say this because my brother's birthday is May 23.

My daughter's birthday is May 18

My parents only have 2 that's 2 grandchildren in the universe, One of them is said daughter whose birthday is May 18,

For some reason, my mom cannot remember that DDs birthday is May 18, and misses it most years, and then sends something or calls after my brother's birthday. She somehow has it in her head that my brother's birthday is first.

I can't tell you how very very very hurtful this has been to my DD over the years.

Very

This woman has a sister she sees and talks to every day, a father she talks to more than once a day, and a couple siblings she talks to regularly.

However, being annoyed with or bickering with at least one of them at any given time seems to be par for the course in that family.

It's the antithesis of my family where I can go MONTHS without talking to one of my siblings and then pick up like they walked out of the room ten minutes ago.

Of course I should remember her birthday on the correct day instead of "in general", I will take fault for that. But it is the idea that she can never let it go that I don't that is annoying. Believe me, there are a number of things that I don't like about her that I completely ignore, I think that's just part of accepting other people as adults.

If I only had jobs I loved unreservedly, did things which I never failed, had friends that were perfect fits, and had a relationship that was absolutely flawless--I would be unemployed, inert, friendless and single.

Julie, that is a blood relative--actually direct offspring.

I met this woman as an adult, as a 35ish year old adult. I am not her mother or her grandmother.

This woman basically will not even acknowledge that I have been in a long-term relationship (going on 18 years), because we are not "legally married and either of you could walk away, you have no *real* committment" , she says.

Interwoven insurances, wills and testaments, and property notwithstanding.

I am been more than willing to ignore for years that she either ignores that I am essentially married or denigrates it. I think she could cut me some slack on the birthday.

This woman basically will not even acknowledge that I have been in a long-term relationship (going on 18 years), because we are not "legally married and either of you could walk away, you have no *real* committment" , she says.

To me, this is a far, far greater offense than you forgetting her darn birthday. Now that you've made it clear she openly disdains your domestic partnership (something that is surely of vital importance to you) ... why do you even want to remain friends with her?

It does sound like it hurts her feelings when you forget her birthday. To be honest, it is kind of silly of both of you. I have to agree with Sunny - do you want to remain friends?

And I have to LOL at Ann.

tina

If she can't accept this small trait of yours, then it is time for both of you to move on"

ellendi got it right.

You have demonstrated your friendliness and thoughtfulness in so many good ways. So what if you are late with a birthday greeting? This is beginning to sound more like a power struggle than a friendship.

Somewhat related, my family members see sending a birthday card as the highest sign of devotion. I never remember to get the cards in time, but I do call on their birthdays and sometimes send gifts that arrive before, on, or after the birthday. Isn't that better than a prefabricated card? This year I was travelling overseas, so I bought a card & mailed it before I left. It arrived well in advance of the birthday. When I called after coming back, said family member made a pointed comment about, "Thank you for sending a card for once, after all these years. It meant so much to me that you finally sent a card." Years of phone calls with heart-felt good wishes and honest expressions of love, or flowers, or presents don't count as much as a mass produced card with a sappy boilerplate sentiment sent a week early, I guess!

Oh gawd ... the importance that some people attach to stupid Hallmark cards is jut mind-boggling, isn't it?

It's really funny what people remember or don't remember & for who. I've actually been the friend on some level; whether me or my daughter & depending on who it is forgetting depends on whether it annoys me or not. It's really hard to explain without going into detail why it bugs me when certain people forget me or my daughter; they don't remember my son & I don't care about that because it's never been a big deal to him; but they remember my hub who never remembers anyones & it's also not a big deal to him.

I get that some people could care less about birthdays; but isn't this what friendship is about? Caring about people's feelings? Why is it so hard to make a point of remembering to wish her happy birthday on the day? Do you not have facebook? A gmail account comes with a free calendar; cell phones have calendars. It's really simple to add her day recurring yearly to any of them so that you can wish her a happy birthday & be done with it. Apparently it is a big deal to her; maybe the gift hints aren't for the gift itself just for you to actually get that saying happy birthday would make her happy? Are you willing to lose the friendship over it?

Your post about not speaking to your own family & being able to pick up where you left off can be your feelings on it & not your family. We know people like that too that think it's fine but since we know both sides; another sibling doesn't feel that way but they keep their mouth shut. They consider their own family dysfunctional lol

Maybe you won't have to worry about making the choice to end it because maybe she will. I've gotten to a point in my life where I've cut people out because our friendship started looking like I was the only one working at it. They started with other things & the mutual bday wishes being forgotten were the icing on the cake.

Refreshing the post & seeing your relationship; do you 2 celebrate an anniversary? I don't understand what's not to acknowledge; does she make like your single? Do you make it a point to forget her birthday because of how she feels about your relationship? If so tell her & let the cards fall where they lie; either you're still friends or not.

I know we're not talking about your relationship; you obviously have commitment but if either of you passes or has an incident where you can't make decisions on your own; family can easily push you out of the way. I've seen it happen.

I don't like taking offense, it doesn't make me feel good.

She just, like lots of people in this country, thinks an unhappy but legal/religious contract trumps a well-adjusted partnership anyday.

I can't worry about stuff like that. Her approval of my relationship wouldn't make it any happier. Her disapproval doesn't make it any less so.

I think taking offense has gotten so popular. It is time for the annual Christmas (oops Holiday/Semester Break) party at one of my workplaces. Last year we went to an unusually trendy place called the Grim Reaper or something like that. I don't even remember. One woman reported THIS YEAR, that she was "very offended" that the table we ate on last year was coffin shaped. Like, she held it in for a whole year and had to bring it up.

I hadn't even noticed until halfway through the evening.

I think she was offended because her check was $15 instead of $10 at the cheap Chinese place we usually go to.

So many of her sentences start out "Well, I was so offended when..." "I was just livid when..."

Really? I don't have enough time to be offended by all the things that should offend me, I guess.

But I am probably a really self-contained person.

So why do I *want* to remain friends with this other woman?

We share the same sense of humor, we have a lot in common in her background, and we work together several days a week. It's much easier to stay friendly, deal with each other's shortcomings and overlook bad behavior. Someone else's opinion/bad behavior/whatever has little effect on my "inner" life anyway.

As for my own family, sure we are dysfunctional. But our time together is always harmonious. We get along. I think in modern society THAT is probably dysfucnctional. We should probably be having interventions for each other.

This post was edited by palimpsest on Thu, Dec 6, 12 at 10:50

If you want to stay friendly and if your wishing her a Happy Birthday will make her happy, can't you go mark the date on your calendar for next year right now? (Or set your computer to remind you?).

Birthdays stopped being a big thing to me once I became an adult, but I know some people who still think they are the only person in the world who have a day they were born on.....

ML

The passive-aggressive thing would really not go over well with me. If she was truly offended or hurt, there are much more grown up ways to express that, than a passive-aggressive text every year.

Also annoying to me, and along the same line, are the people who insinuate that someone is a loser for not having a big blowout celebration or for not demanding a big gift or celebration from the spouse for a birthday or anniversary. I always hate the question "Are you doing anything special?" because of some of the ridiculous reactions I've encountered when I say that I am not.

I honestly can't imagine holding it against a friend for not recognizing my birthday. I have several friends who don't even really know my birthday. I don't think it makes it a bad friendship, they are good friends to me any day of the year.

As one who has trouble remembering my own wedding anniversary, your friend would drive me crazy.

Perhaps you can tell her you picked another day to celebrate her birthday that will be a bit more memorable to you. There are tons of holidays and awareness days to choose from. Like February 1st, which is Spunky Old Broad Day or April 1st starts Twit Awareness Month. lol!

Here is a link that might be useful: 2013 Holidays & Observances

I'm in agreement with your relationship; I'd rather see 2 people happy & not married then to see 2 people like my parents; stay married. I also feel everyone should be able to make it legal if they want but that's a whole other topic lol

You sound like 2 very different people; sounds like your friendship may mean more to her then you & if so; maybe its time to have a chat about that.

With the stipulation that this is almost certainly not going to make any difference to Pal:

No, you don't get to unload a laundry list of 'well she is worse than me' gripes to excuse your own bad behavior in not acknowledging your friend's birthday. It doesn't work that way.

If she does X or Y or Z and those actions bother you--then deal with X or Y or Z. But pulling up XYZ to justify you doing the wrong thing is, well, wrong.

Those actions of hers might explain why you don't choose to expend energy to please her (see my previous post). However, Pal, you are being disingenuous by bringing up a situation for discussion in which many perceive you as in the wrong and then following up by dragging in other dynamics to excuse your behavior. It truly does not matter whether or not your birth family does something different. It really does not matter that she doesn't acknowledge your partnership IN THIS CONTEXT. You are passively aggressively justifying upsetting her about the birthday issue by telling yourself it's ok since she upsets you about your partner. That's not justification, it's an excuse for behaving badly to your friend.

Again, we can only control ourselves. If you want to hurt her feelings-because you know clearly it does-because she hurts yours then own it. Tell her how you feel and be honest about it all. But to use an online forum to try to convince yourself it's okay...well, you just aren't going to win this with some folks, myself included.

And actually--I can't control you, only myself :). So I can tell you what I think but I can't change you. So that's the sum and end of my input!

Ann

Ann

Ok now we are far off the forgotten birthday topic. But now that you bring up some hurtful things she has said about your personal life I wonder why you are friends with such a toxic person. She is a "screw with your head" friend. If you really want to continue the friendship you two need a powwow. Get it all out. This usually does not work but you never know till you try. I would never and have never put up with comments about or towards my spouse or children that are toxic. You should not have to listen to toxic opinions on your spouse or life. Not long ago I ended a friendship with a childless gal who gave child rearing advice in a toxic way. She always referred to how her parents brought her up as being the only right way. I was already at my wits end on her continuous drunken behavior but stuck it out because I didn't want to lose faith in her. Now I can't believe I put up with her ramblings for so long. I don't miss her but I still worry for her.I fear I was a bit of an enabler. In her case it would have been pointless having a powwow as she was usually intoxicated. I hope she straightens out someday because she has a good heart underneath it all, plus her husband is a good man.
I guess you just need to decide if you want to be friends.

I wasn't going to bring the things that she does that bug me. I didn't use it as an excuse in the original post.

I brought it up mostly to point out that I think that As Adults, we are going to have friends who do things that bug us, aren't nice, aren't completely compatible with our belief system or whatever and that As Adults, we Suck It Up.

If I only had relationships with people that I Felt treated me perfectly I would have No Relationships at all.

I would no longer be speaking to some people I consider very good friends in general, I would no longer speak to Most people I work with.

There are people in here I wouldn't be answering the posts of.

She needs to grow up.

Sometimes I can't even remember how old I am, and I'm not that old.

My best friends (and I can count them on one hand) rarely remember each others birthday. No big deal.

I am surprised by how many people think Pal (or anyone) should make an effort to recognize a birthday from someone who demands and expects it.

This is a friendship.. not a marriage, not a blood kinship (and even then, I would be turned off by the demands and expectations). Perhaps this is a cultural/regional thing.. though I doubt it.

We ALL know people who demand attention.. but hinting for gifts and expecting cards or acknowledgment on special days is ridiculous. We all have lives, jobs, family, things occupying our minds. As I said above, I don't fill my calendar with birthdays and anniversaries of all the people I know. I do acknowledge the bf, nieces and nephews, siblings, parents and grandparents.. well right there there's 21. I also acknowledge my ex-SIL, bff, her two sons and some other close friends-- not always on the day but in some way on or around their birthdays. More importantly, I am there for them when needed. I'll go and pick them up at the ER at 3am.. I'll watch their dog over a long weekend.. I'll bring homemade soup and bread when they are sick or overly stressed. These are my things. Pal shared his expertise in his friend's remodel. Aren't THESE the things we want friends for? I'd much more appreciate a friend coming to help me paint-- or even asking how I am doing with my job search than one who sends a card with a precanned message and a signature.. or a quick text punched out at a stoplight.

I'll go further.. and I know this will make some people's heads spin: I HATE the expectation for cards. In fact, I refuse to send cards (the one exception is for Sympathy cards). They are stupidly expensive, you either get something impersonal or inappropriate or you spend a ridiculous amount of time searching for the right one. I hate the wave of Christmas cards to the house. I especially dislike those that come with a mini wallet size photo of a kid. What am *I* going to do with your kid's pic? Put it in my wallet? Save your money, PLEASE. Send me an email, a handwritten note, pick up the phone and call, plan to join me for a drink... do something/anything that is personal.. or let it go.

I would have a hard time being friends with someone who didn't/wouldn't acknowledge my relationship.. but I guess that's a personal decision and a topic for a different thread. :)

Her attitude about your relationship would be enough to dismiss her as a friend in my book, regardless of the other reasons you say you like her.

But it does appear that you are punishing her (whether consciously or not) for her shortcomings by refusing to just wish her a happy birthday on her day. She is not worth your expending one ounce of effort to try to remember her birthday, which is obviously important to her. And, apparently to her, you are not worth her being an understanding and supportive friend about your relationship with your partner. She should be doing all she could for marriage equality, if she cared one whit about you.

You say:"Someone else's opinion/bad behavior/whatever has little effect on my "inner" life anyway." Yet you posted about it here, so it's had some effect on you or you would have just dismissed her rudeness and not sought support for yours from this group.

It does look like a war of the wills and from the outside looks like more like mutual aggravation than friendship to me. But, it's not my life.

You say:"Someone else's opinion/bad behavior/whatever has little effect on my "inner" life anyway." Yet you posted about it here, so it's had some effect on you or you would have just dismissed her rudeness and not sought support for yours from this group.

Agreed.

Honestly, Pal, I think you are a pretty aware person. You pretty much understand what went on here. You likely knew she would be offended. If she does not get over it, you likely will need to apologize for your response for the sake of your working relationship but whether or not you remember her birthday in the future is totally up to you and you have let it be known that it is not that high of a priority for you. To me, it sounded more like a running joke (just like I always joke with my husband about the year he paid for a cake to take to his office for the Marine Corps birthday but I did not get a cake on mine. I could care less but it is fun to tease him about).

Again though, an interesting discussion/peak into social interactions which can be a fun/enlightening thing (at least for me).

Ann, you so so right in saying that we can only control ourselves. Pal, from what you have mentioned a few posts up, you work with this woman a few days a week. Until that changes, you are stuck.
So, since you do not want to acknowledge her birthday, I think you made this clear, then you have to work on not being upset each year when she comments about your not acknowledging her birthday.
You say you share a sense of humor. Could your response be something like, "You know me and birthdays, yada, yada yada." (Hopefully she'll get the Seinfeld reference.)
Feelings are complex and we just can't help feeling the way we feel.
I am glad you came to the forum to discuss your situation with your friend. When you get so many responses that are in agreement, it does make you stop and think. Not that it will change your mind, just give you a different perspective.

Oh Funky dear, you know you are a gal after my own heart. LOL IF I HAD A KID, I would send you a picture and demand that you carry it in your wallet!!! hahahaha! You crack me up. I know where you are coming from. I am kinda big on cards myself. However, I would never demand one or even expect one, but I love getting them and even as much or more so, I love sending cards. I really can't think of any friends or family that act like the expect a card. If they did, that would probably make me not want to send one. LOL

I do understand that when working with someone, it is so much nicer to be able to get along. This woman,however, does not sound like she is being a friend to you - just expecting friendship from you. It sounds so one-sided. I just don't see how she can be considered a friend if she will not acknowledge your relationship.

tina

You say:"Someone else's opinion/bad behavior/whatever has little effect on my "inner" life anyway." Yet you posted about it here, so it's had some effect on you or you would have just dismissed her rudeness and not sought support for yours from this group.
Agreed."

Oh I agree that this is having an effect, that's not really what I meant by this comment. I meant it in a different context.

What I was trying to say is that if I took offense at every negative remark, action, etc., I would spend a good part of my energy in taking offense. I work part time in an extremely negative work environment, and ai couple of my coworkers are constantly in a state about what someone else has done to offend them.

For example, there is an unpleasantness that stems from an unreciprocated maternity leave.

22 years ago.

When I am in this environment I half shut down. I do my work and deflect everything else.

I know I am passive agressive to some degree, but I think I am more Passive-Defensive, or Passive-self-preservationist.

Honestly, I am embarrassed for this woman. I would never, EVER send a "Hey Thanks for Missing My Birthday AGAIN, as usual" message. It would be one thing if you too expected everyone to remember/make a huge deal of your birthday. But you don't.

I value the friendship of the person who calls "just to talk" or who shows up to help me move, paint, (insert boring/unpleasant menial task here) far more than the person who sends some generic greeting once a year.

Also FWIW, my wonderful mother has been in an "unhappy but legal/religious contract" AND "a well-adjusted partnership" Yeah, I'll take well-adjusted, thank you.

Pal, I don't think you were the passive aggressive one in this situation...your text was pretty clear! I would consider the person hinting at gifts and sending birthday reminders to be more of the passive aggressive one.

Also, I didn't read the original post as Pal looking for support so much as just a general observation and a way of opening discussion about how narcissistic people can be annoying and difficult to deal with. Especially when there is no choice but to be around them.

I was fine with your reply to her until the last line. That last line felt petulant & petty-like saying "neener neener".

I have gotten wiser as I've aged and no longer feel I must get in the last word to 'win' against a person like that. I recently had an e-mail exchange with someone who made an incorrect assumption and made some vague threats. I could tell after a few exchanges that I was dealing with someone who made me feel I was pig wrestling with. He left the dialogue open for continued argument but I realized we'd never reach understanding, so I just let him have the last word.

Was he going to go tell all his friends how he put me down? Sure he was-but did I care? No! And I could walk away with out letting it fester inside me.

Your friend is never going to change, and by saying 'neener neener' to her, you've now set yourself up as the bad guy. I'd say at this point it's best to just downgrade the relationship to benign greetings. It's not making you happy enough to put energy in to. And try to resist getting in the last word.

"and not sought support for yours from this group"

Actually, I am not coming here for support.

I am coming here for a discussion about behaviors, and just seeing what people think about it. Actually I think my friend and I are both wrong.

I didn't ask anybody if I did the right thing, or who was less wrong, or even "what would You do, do you Think I should do." Support is when you ask for help or assurance with something. I don't think I am doing that in this thread and when I call myself "self contained" or reference "inner self" that pretty much sums it up. I act by my own instinct, not by committee vote. And sometimes that probably means I am a real a----- because that is how much instinct is telling me to behave. I hope that that particular sometimes is in the minority.

I just had this situation and I wanted to see what the current feelings are like about this. They are pretty much evenly divided.

Sometimes it's best to be clear if blunt to people who insinuate, hint, slip in the needle, etc. Perhaps Pal's response is rude but effective. He can soothe it over eventually, but at least he made his point.

I don't think the woman was joking with Pal, otherwise she would have rushed in to salve the friendship when she got his angry reply. And if she pushed Pal too far and got a nasty response, she needs to own up to her part in the unpleasantness too. It's a little strange to demand that colleagues in a professional setting should acknowledge your birthday, let alone remember it every year. AFAIC, she should pay for & bring in a cake to share with co-workers and leave it at that. She sounds a bit manipulative to me.

Sounds like this is a person who needs to be the center of attention.

I have a friend whose birthday is exactly 1 week before mine and has been for the last 15 years that I have know her. She makes sure that everyone knows her birthday is coming up and we all take her for lunch. The following week my birthday is ignored and a couple of days later she will say "oh wasn't it your birthday. Oh right it's 1 week after mine. I should remember that" - every year. She needs to always be the center of attention - I don't. It bugged me until I figured that out. She is like that not only wrt her birthday but in her everyday life as well.

All these behaviors seem so childlike to me. blfenton, your friend seems to get more value out of her birthday celebration well knowing that yours won't be celebrated a week later.
MY SIL is like this. She has manipulated events so that I have been excluded. It has taken me years to figure out her M.O.
Also ,when a group of us are having a discusion and if she doesn't know enough about the topic to contribute, she will interrupt and say "Oh look, there's a stain on your sleeve." We of course all stop and look at said person's sleeve but of course nothing is on it. Then, somehow we never get back on track. I have since now learned to say, "Ok, now getting back to what X was saying...."
Some of us just have the need to feel valued with public displays.

Just got up from a nice day-off nap and thought a little more about your post.

I wonder if the fact that by helping her design her home it led her to believe you are closer friends than you actually are? You were just doing the job for a friend. She thinks discussing her lifestyle, budget/finances, likes and dislikes with you means bff, with the outcome being her hurt feelings and snarky text.

Pal

Sorry, I think I over-reacted in my reply to you, and I apologize.

A sore spot with me for sure, but the situations are really quite different. Family vs social friend.

Julie

I didn't ask anybody if I did the right thing, or who was less wrong, or even "what would You do, do you Think I should do." Support is when you ask for help or assurance with something. I don't think I am doing that in this thread and when I call myself "self contained" or reference "inner self" that pretty much sums it up. I act by my own instinct, not by committee vote. And sometimes that probably means I am a real a----- because that is how much instinct is telling me to behave. I hope that that particular sometimes is in the minority.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

I just had to chime in on this one, lol. Pal, you are under no obligation to recognize anyone's birthday.
If I were you, the first time the woman chastised me I'd have let it go. Everyone makes mistakes and I would assume she merely had a temporary lapse in judgment. The second time would convince me that she intends to coerce me into wishing her a happy birthday. I would never be able to sincerely wish her a happy birthday under those circumstances, so I would simply say that I don't share her commitment to the custom, just as some people don't celebrate Christmas, etc. I'd ask her to respect my desire to opt out. If she has no expectations she won't be disappointed when she doesn't hear from you.
I think when someone makes a demand, you either agree to comply or you inform them you do not intend to comply. The important thing is that you give them an answer they can rely on. It's the failure to address the issue that leads to one disappointment after another.

kswl

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Yeah, whatever. Let's put this in the "opinion not important" category.

Hi Pal! I'm lousy at remembering birthdays, etc. What I did was buy a daily planner book where you can see the whole month at a glance and write down events. I had to do this and I keep it on my coffee table. I write birthdays in red ink. I forgot my new DIL's bday once and can I tell you how bad I felt?

Other than her not supporting your relationship w/your partner, it sounds like you two are friends and you want to keep it that way.

I know you're not seeking advice, but I think you need to pull her aside and tell her, "Sorry about my snarky email, but you know I'm lousy at remembering birthdays, but I did think of you." Maybe she'll apologize for her petty email too.

I don't expect a party for my birthday, but I do expect to be remembered by those close to me, just as they are remembered. My family and friends are big on sending cards, and IMO, they are such a treat to get in the mail! Nobody is doing it because they're obligated either.

Another thought, some of us and maybe your friend also, had birthday parties growing up, and a LOT of them. I had several surprise parties, the last being a teen. So as we grow older we still want the world to stop on that day. lol. And when it doesn't, well it's kind of depressing, even though we know that is how life is as we get older.

Even if your friend said that in jest, she was still wrong to do it. She should know by now you are bad at remembering birthdays.

To keep the harmony between you, I'd remind her.

Oh, and next year don't buy her a Halmark card, buy her a Papyrus card. :) That will make her shut-up.

Cindyloo, that's an impressive summation -- clear, firm, wise, yet polite.

Actually, she called me and left a message as if the snarky exchange hadn't occurred at all.

I need to remember that I have seen her with her sister where they are ripping into each other and two minutes later one of them says "Hey did you see what's on TV tonight?"

I think having a short fuse and a short memory are just part of her persona.

"I think having a short fuse and a short memory are just part of her persona."

That may be Pal. But if you care about her at all you don't want to keep causing her angst on her bday. You know she has expectations, so it would be polite to either start meeting them or to inform her you will not be doing so.

Thanks for your comment awm! I tend to deal with everything the same way I would handle a business situation. Figure out what the conflict is, make a decision on how to handle it, announce the decision, and move on. I think the most important aspect of conflict resolution is that it is RESOLVED. There is nothing worse than allowing a problem to fester.

I understand completely that some people have strong feelings about their birthday, but surely no one wants another person to feel like they are REQUIRED to participate. And if you know someone never participates in your birthday, you should assume they are opting out and you can stop bothering with their birthday if you like.

It's a good time of year for this discussion as people always have issues with Christmas gifts. One person gives an elaborate gift while the recipient might prefer not to exchange at all and definitely does not want to exchange expensive gifts? If such an incident happens once, I think it should be addressed before it happens again. I guess that would be for another thread though, lol.

I will remind someone over and over that they need to call a plumber, accomplish some task etc.

But I think having to remind, or reminding someone to do something polite to ME or to be nice to ME, just doesn't make any sense.

It's like buying yourself a gift and signing the other person's name, and then pretending they bought it. Its. Not. Real. That. Way.

So the second I would have to ask someone to wish me a happy birthday or to "demand an apology". Really?

The person who says it by request or demand hardly means it under those circumstances.

I haven't read everybody's comments, so this might have already been addressed; it might not even be relevant, for that matter:

The friend might be somebody whose family always made a big deal about birthdays, holidays, and so on. Over the years, I have known a small no. of adults who have hosted their own birthday parties. I wonder whether those adults - and the friend - are just so used to celebrating their birthdays, and having the day acknowledged, that they don't realize that not everybody behaves or thinks like that.

I don't know the birth date of a single adult friend, acquaintance, colleague, co-worker. Come to think of it, the only friend's birth date I do know is that of my very best childhood friend, and I haven't seen that person in many, many years. I highly doubt anyone outside my family knows my birth date either, and I don't care one way or the other.

I have the sense this discussion is moot though. It sounds like, from what pal has said, that the friend gets irked easily and then quickly gets over it, too.