Looks to me like you have nice, big yards. IÂd drill boreholes in either the front or back yard and install a geothermal system to heat & cool the house as well as heat the hot water. Then you could cap the chimney and send you gas company packing.

Since youÂre planning to be there for a while thatÂs what makes the most sense to me. Have an energy audit done to size properly whatever you decide to install and get some quotes on a geothermal heat pump system. You may save 60% or more on your present day heating & cooling costs. Who knows what gas will cost in 5 or 10 years; oil is already over $80.00 a barrel!

IMO

SR

Here is a link that might be useful: geoexchange.org

What is the contractor telling you about the venting issues in your utility room?

What state do you live in? How severe are the winters and summers? What are your electric and gas rates?

The answers to the above will determine which direction you go. If you're replacing your a/c, you may be able to go with a heat pump for outside temps below 32 degrees, and use a back-up gas furnace for colder temps. This depends on climate and utility rates.

If you upgrade your gas furnace from an 80% efficient unit to a top-of-the line 95% efficient, you will save 15% max in your heating bills. If your heating bills are $2000/year, your savings will be $300/year. Assume the new gas furnace is $5000, so the payback is 16.7 years ($5000 purchase cost/$300 per year savings) if gas bills are stable. The payback time will decrease if natural gas prices continue to rise.

There is a big bang for the buck obtained from increasing attic insulation, caulking, adding Tyvek house-wrap when you replace the siding, and installaing new windows.

Best to you.

There you go again Steve, recommending geothermal systems to people when you donÂt know the facts, using scare tactics, and it wasnÂt even the gentlemanÂs question.

Kelly, donÂt mind Steve, he even recommends people install geothermal in their bird houses no matter what the cost is. Your lot looks like a 1/3 acre or less, you live in NJ, you have natural gas and your house is not well insulated. You would be spending twice the money on geothermal for you home then a traditional system even with your states rebate programs.

Spending twice the money on a system with a poorly insulated home is not the best way to go. If you donÂt mind spending the additional money, insulate your house as much as you can afford, (including that hot water heater) and that will give you the best return on your money. If you can even afford more, replace the windows with high efficiency windows. Your home will be much quieter and far more comfortable.

Make sure you take advantage of your states rebate no matter what you do, http://www.njcleanenergy.com/residential/programs/cooladvantage/cooladvantage-program

Now to your real question for venting a new high efficiency system.
High-efficiency furnaces canÂt rely on natural draft to exhaust flue gases because too much heat is removed from the gases in order to make the system "high-efficient".
Since the lower temperature gases are less buoyant, these newer furnaces must use a power-driven fan to force the gases out of the furnace and out the flue.
If you were to use your chimney to try and vent the gases from the new system, they probably wouldnÂt make it to the top of your chimney. On top of that you would have a big condensation problem in that chimney.

Why canÂt you run a plastic vent pipe for the new system?

I missed the part where he/she is from New Jersey. Did you get that from the license plate on the car in the driveway? If so, you're good.

Good catch on the location, sorry for not mentioning it earlier. Yep, I am located in central NJ and have 1/3 of an acre lot size.

As I've been thinking about the hvac upgrade, I am not sure what the right approach is, given the other efficiency issues like the period insulation and windows. It could be argued that a high efficiency furnace would be useful because it would be running more often in my home than it would in one with excellent insulation. Bad logic? The single estimate I got recommended a Lennox GV60 furnace (~85000 btu I believe) and I think XC16 air conditioner. (3 ton?)

Thanks for touching on some of the value-for-money factors. As possible, I am also upgrading the in-wall insulation. I have blown-in insulation of unknown r-factor in the attic.

Climate conditions below -
January: avg lows 25, highs 38.
August: avg lows 70, highs 86.
Link to seasonal temperatures

I think the issue with the PVC vent is that it would need to go out the back of the house and also have a 1/4" per foot pitch to allow condensate to flow back to the drainage outlet. If I have an appx 10 foot run from the furnace to the ouside wall, wouldn't I need a 8.5" rise? There are also some structures that the vent would have to turn and hug around. Wouldn't it look like something out of Dr. Suess and not work properly?

I did read some about geotherm after seeing Steve's post last night - No idea on installation and equipment costs though. The idea of being protected from inevitably rising energy costs is appealing though.

The contractor told me about the available rebates, definitely paying attention to that.

A Lennox G60V furnace is 80% efficient which is probably what you have now. You'll save nothing on your utility bill if this is the case, but you can use your existing flue. You need more quotes from different HVAC companies.

How old is your HVAC equipment?

What are your electic and gas rates?

Geothermal is $20k to $30k upfront purchase price. Good for the next owner of your home.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lennox

I'll pull the per-unit rates and post back.

This furnace is -original- from 1969. The previous owners were very fastidious and maintained things, but didn't do much upgrading at all. This page suggests that average efficiency of furnaces this age is 60%!

How old is your a/c system? Going from a 20 year-old 7 SEER to a new 14 SEER would save about 40% on cooling costs.

Using a heat pump could save more on your heating bill depending on your utility rates. A heat pump is simply a central air conditioning system with a reversing valve that allows the refrigerant to reverse flow in the winter and provide heat. Below 32 degrees outside air temp, a heat pump needs auxillary heat which could be a gas furnace or back-up electric strips.

If the old furnace is 60%, going to an 80% efficient unit has a payback time of about 12.5 years based on my previous post. If you're going from a 60% to a 95% high-efficiency gas, the payback would be about 7 years. As previously stated, increasing natural gas prices will lower the payback time.

You still need insulation improvements.

Aircon is of the same or close vintage, so estimating a 6 or 7 SEER.

Ok, I have some info from my utility bills -

$1.1027 per therm for NG.
$0.105950 per kWh for Elec.

I'll definitely be gathering more quotes, but I like to be well educated so I can ask a lot of good questions when they come.

Kelley:

If you have a 10Â run from the furnace to the outside wall and you need a 1/4" drop per foot then you should only need a 2 1/2" difference from the furnace to the outside wall.

Any competent HVAC Contractor will make sure itÂs done right because the vent is the simplest part of the install.

Gary:

Yes I did get the information off the license plate. If you want another one, IÂm fairly certain the home was built in 1966, not 1969!!!

Kelley:

Keep the questions coming. 10.6 cents/kw-hour isn't all that bad. That may be just generation, transmission and distribution may be a few cents/kw-hour more. To compare, in Maryland I pay 10 cents non-summer generating plus 2.7 cents delivery and distribution = 12.7 cents/kw-hour total. My house is all electric.

When you get more quotes, get the model# of the condenser (outside unit), furnace, and a/c coil. Post model #s of all three and I'll verify system performance ratings and sizing. In my opinion, a 14 SEER system provides the best combination of purchase price and true operating costs.

Mepop:

Please provide the Maryland Mega-millions lottery winning numbers for tonight's drawing before 11 PM and I'll split the winnings with you!!

Take care.

Yep, delivery is another 0.055 per KWH. Thanks for the insights, guys.

Your old GE furnace is about 65% AFUE. Replacing it with a 95% AFUE unit will save you about ~$575/ year if your gas is from PSE&G and savings will be ~$665 if your gas supplier is South Jersey Gas Co. PSE$G= $1.40/ therm. South Jersey Gas $1.61/ therm. Electric in NJ is ~$.14/ kWh

Rebates from NJ utilities will be $400.00 for a 90%+ AFUE furnace with an ECM blower, $300.00 For a 90%+ furnace with a conventional blower. South Jersey Gas is offering an additional $300.00 in rebates for 90%+ furnaces, expires on 11/30/2007. You will be eligible for a $200.00 tax credit for a 95% furnace with an ECM blower. The ECM blower will save you about $100.00/ year in electric.

I see no venting problems with your photos. If your contractor will not install a 90%+ furnace find one who will.

If you are buying an A/C system, 15 SEER is the best buy over 14 SEER. The state will rebate $400.00 for 15 SEER, 12.5 EER. and $300.00 for the 14 SEER. The difference is the TXV on the coil. You will also be able to take a $300.00 tax credit for the 15 SEER. Most folks reading this site do not know of the rebate programs in NJ.

Thanks guys, I had a Carrier (Mann's HVAC) contractor install an Infinity 96 furnace, 15 SEER Performance AC unit, bypass humidifier and media air filter. Running the PVC wasn't a problem as one of the earlier contractors had said it may be.

This company was also fully up to speed with the rebates, performed Manual J, etc. Thanks for everyone's input, we're very happy with the system so far, but still need to see some colder temps and utility bills. I'll post some updates again later.

kelly

your new system includes the Infinity controller?

TD

Yes, Infinity controller as well - The integrated control of humidity and the easy programming are some of my favorite features. It's nice to be able to look at the t-stat and see the outside temperature as well.

Great job, Kelley!

Now watch your heating and cooling bills drop like a rock.

Best to you.

good job guys!