Did you want a prep sink for when the kids are more a part of the kitchen crew?

Still deciding...I am wondering if we can have a movable island that size. If so, I guess I won't have a prep sink. If not, I probably will. LOL

Would you ever move it and why/under what circumstances? (Through the years we've gotten things that are movable, foldable, adjustable...and they just sit in one spot in one size.) Seems like it might be kind of large for that to be practical.

It may be helpful to remind people that you have 4 kids already and want more, and that you homeschool, so you will often have a large kitchen staff and lots of activity in this kitchen in the future. :-) With a farm (and a big family to feed), do you also do canning and other large projects dealing with large amounts of produce? Another use for a 2nd sink.

I didn't read the entire first thread (I linked it below), but I did pick up that you don't have a DR, just the eat-in kitchen. Is there enough space? Is your table only 24" wide?

Perhaps you could build a bench along the back wall (if that's a wall!)

Corner pantry...depending on the door and the exact measurements when you put it in, you may need a little more room on the diagonal to accommodate a door & frame plus studs for the diagonal wall, etc. Also, be sure you don't have a Pantry Door/Refrigerator Door conflict (if a single-door Refrigerator, put the hinges on the side away from the pantry)

Here is a link that might be useful: First Thread: Please help with Tricky Layout

I'm not sure I would move it...I just had a really bad "island" experience when we first moved here. I know it was probably just too big of an island, but I'm scared I'll hate it and then have a ruined floor or wished we would have moved it down a few inches or something. *sigh* I just don't want to make a mistake.

I definitely see the need for another sink....where would you put it? would the island be the only logical spot or could it fit somewhere on the counter area?

How does the rest of the layout look with that reduced return duct?

no, the table isn't only 24 inches. I must have messed up on the dimensions. It is about 38 inches (that is my 7 yo measuring, so who knows it it is exactly 38! looks about that though). W do have a bench, but not anchored.

What side should the pantry door open?

I may have missed something earlier but if you don't want a permanent island; would you consider a U shaped? Your kitchen seems wide enough that you could then have a smaller moveable working island. If I missed the reason why you can't... sorry!

I was playing with a U shaped layout a little bit, but couldn't get anything to work.

Is the layout I have above not good?

Isn't it already U-shaped? or as U-shaped as you can get with the living room doorway?

Oh, I took remodelfla's question as making the countertop U shaped. Maybe I was mistaken.

Or maybe you meant with a peninsula? Makes a long trip around to the back door, but otherwise, I suppose it could work. It's never my first thought, because I don't like the dead end for traffic...a personal bias that keeps me from thinking of them as an option.

Sorry, I missed that you asked about prep sink location. Did you say if you're having a French door or one-door fridge? I worry a little about using the prime landing spot for stuff from the fridge, but to have it be most helpful, I think I'd put it on the corner of the island closest to the pantry with the faucet on the diagonal, so it's usable from both sides. You don't have room for it on the perimeter counters where it would do you any good.

oh, yeah...peninsula! That is what I was thinking....I'm not too crazy about them either.

I'm not picky on the fridge. I'd like the kind with the freezer on the bottom, but really whatever works best with the layout.

Also, if anyone has any other layout ideas now that the return duct is smaller, I'd love to hear and consider them. All my priorities are in that linked post.

thanks

Yea... I guess what I was talking about would make it more of a G shape... very closed in. A peninsula coming in where the pantry is which would face the LR. I much prefer open layouts but threw it out as an option. The more I look at this the more I'm thinking back to flipping the pantry and frig. It just seems like more natural prep flow from frig, to sink, can prep veggies or whatever on island and then to stove. Wow... I feel like I'm channeling rhome!

so what wall would the fridge go on? where would the pantry be? I'm confused--again--sorry, doesn't take much these days. :)

If the fridge is on same wall as the stove and the pantry is on wall A, wouldn't that be the whole door hitting into things issue?

Oh gosh... I'm confusing you cause I got confused myself. I was looking at an older thread where you had the pantry down
at the end of the sink run. I'm meant to put the frig down at the end past the DW. I forgot you were thinking a corner pantry?...by the duct? Sorry... I took 60 2nd graders on a field trip to an air boat ride today in the Everglades. I'm a little spent!... I think I'll hold any and opinions for another day!

Yep, clearance problems for the fridge door, and less room for the stove to have, basically, the same path, especially if the prep sink is added.

I hate to be the temptress, but if this is your forever house and you're hoping for a family that's closer to the size of ours, you might want to think about a larger stove, and maybe 2 dishwashers, or at least the space to add one later? I got to the place where the size and number of burners offered by a 30" stove weren't enough for the number and size of pans I needed to use. There were too many times when I needed to cook things in 2 separate batches and had to try to keep the 1st warm, waiting for the 2nd so there was enough for our meal. Are you having an electric or gas range? And 2 dishwashers can sound like an extravagant luxury, but when there are so many dishes, the dishwasher washes more efficiently, using less energy and water, than washing the excess by hand.

remodelfla-no problem...you get some rest. that was probably an exhausting day! how fun though!

rhome--that certainly sounds wonderful, but just how would I fit all that in this space? I can't seem to get everything to fit as it is, much less if I add extra appliance. Do you have any ideas on how to perhaps add a larger range? We have electric. I am planning on having a double doored oven (not sure what the official name of that is), so that will at least help a little (I hope).

Thanks again for all your help.

I guess if you have to leave the sink where it is, it'd be awkward to add another DW...unless you enlarged the window so you could move the sink to the left.

A bigger range could fit, but I'm not sure what you could get in electric. Sears has a 40", but I didn't read very good reviews on it, and there wouldn't be much of a choice if it needed to be replaced. When we first decided to build I thought about getting two 30" ranges...I was going to put a cabinet between. I'm not sure if you can put them next to each other. I know I've seen it done with gas ranges.

I'll have to talk to my dh about the electrical work. I don't think we could enlarge the window. I'd have to find out how much that would cost. Dh's pay just got cut, so we are going to have to find ways to make this remodel cheaper anyway. :(

What do you think of the posted layout. Is it workable or should I totally revamp it? I worry about the clearances of swinging doors of the pantry and the fridge. Dh said the corner pantry would actually stick out about 3 inches more, but the same angle. So, instead of a 24 inch side, it would be 27 inches. I'm not sure if this would help or hurt the door situation.

OK...I'm going to propose a couple of things. I don't know if they were addressed on the other thread, but here goes...

(1) How would you feel about reducing the doorway to the Living Room from 102" TO 60"? It would still leave you with a 5' doorway and it would gain you valuable counter and cabinet space...which I think you will need with your growing family and especially if you want 2 DWs and a prep sink...which again, will be very useful w/a big family! It would also give you the option of a Message Center on the "extra" cabinet. You might even consider a tall cabinet facing the LR doorway. [See Layout #3]

(2) Can the window be moved at all? Even 6" or so? OR make it 12" bigger? OR Not worry about centering the sink under the window?

Prep Sink: Normally, I would put the Prep Sink closer to the Range, but I think in this case having it on the other end will make more accessible to the Kitchen folks as well as "outsiders". This will also keep the landing space for the refrigerator nearby if you keep the 102" LR doorway. If you have 2 DWs, the Prep Sink wouldn't fit on the Range end.

Aisles: Overall, your aisles are a little narrow, but this may be another one of those compromises to get more counter & cabinet space as well as a Prep Sink and, possibly, 2nd DW.

MW: That's a tough one. With a second DW & Prep Sink you can't afford to lose the base cabinet space for a MW drawer (or other undercounter MW).

If you keep the 102" doorway, I think I would consider hanging the MW from an upper cabinet on the west cabinet run, perhaps at the end, just before the angled cabinet. Yes, it's on the other side of the island from the Refrigerator, but I'm not sure there's another place for it.

If you reduce the LR doorway to 60", I would definitely encourage putting it next to the refrigerator, either hanging it from the upper cabinet or (maybe) undercounter.

Here are some proposed layouts, two w/the new 60" LR doorway (1 w/Msg Center and 1 w/o Msg Center) & one w/the existing 102" doorway. The window over the sink has been moved "north" 6" in all cases.

In the first two proposals, I show two versions...one w/two DWs & one w/one DW. In the third (w/Msg Center), I just show two possible Message Center options...they will both work with or without the 2nd DW.

Yes, the second DW interferes w/the Range, but I think it might be an acceptable compromise in this case.

[Note that in all proposals the room extends another 9" south...I needed to cut it off to make it easier to work with...so that means the bench is approx 18" deep.]

Layout #1, 60" LR Doorway:

Layout #2, 102" LR Doorway:

Layout #3, 60" LR Doorway w/Message Center:

In the left pic, the top cabinet could be an open "box" so a calendar and perhaps paper & pens could fit w/o falling out on the sides and protecting the contents somewhat. I don't know if no upper cabinet would work b/c even if you put in a finished end panel and hung the calendar on it I don't think the panel would be strong enough for an open shelf (for the paper & pens). The counter could hold the phone, mail sorter, charging station, etc. Inside the base could be directories, office/school supplies, etc. It could be all drawers or a top drawer + doors.

In the right pic, it could be an "organization closet" similar to Sweeby's. It would open/close as needed. (See Sweeby's Kitchen in the Finished Kitchens Blog, go to her PhotoBucket pictures and the second last page has "Mom\'s Organization Closet".)

Come to think of it, you could close up the doorway on the "kitchen" end a little more and open it up on the "table" end. Why? B/c I think you may need a little more room for the corner pantry door to fit and b/c you will have to have an end panel of some sort b/w the Message Center upper cabinet and the other upper cabinets next to it (perpendicular).

Lots to think about!

Here is a link that might be useful: Sweeby's 95% Finished Kitchen

Wow! Lots to think about. I'm going to look them all over. Thank you!

No worries about a Microwave....we don't have one by choice. :)

...And I couldn't talk her into reducing the doorway to 72"! Good luck with the 60". ;-)