Oh no, after all that work.

I looked up the General Finishes website and it certainly looks like that should work and shouldn't come off like that. The poly must have softened the stain like a paint thinner or stripper and that caused it to pull off.

Even though they say you can wipe it on, I've found gel stain works best when treated as paint and applied with a brush. The same with the poly coat over it.

Thank you, steff_1 and never_ending, for your comments. I tried calling General Finishes but there was no answer. It just does not make sense to me that a top coat formulated to work with a stain would actually destroy it. I'm also surprised that no one else has had this issue, which makes me think it is something I've done . . . although I've followed the directions. Maybe I got a bad batch of urethane.

How did you prepare your cabinets before you stained them? If the stain can't penetrate the wood, it's just a layer on the top and the top coat can take it right off.

I had a bit of stain come off on the poly applicator cloth, but not much.

Your gel stain is solvent-based, and is sitting on the surface of the wood. Your poly is also solvent-based and you are rubbing it directly on the stain. Picture day-old dried syrup on your counter. Then take a wet rag and wipe it up.... That's basically what happened.

There's a couple ways to address this. First, let the stain dry longer, like several days. Then use a regular brushed or hand-rubbed solvent-based poly, not a gel version. You can thin the poly even more if you're going for a thin, hand-rubbed look. I like to thin my poly about 30% especially for the first coat. Apply your first coat lightly with a brush, and separate out the poly for the first coat into a separate container as the brush will be picking up some of the stain and putting it back into the poly every time you reload. You don't want that now-tinted poly for subsequent coats as it will impact the clarity of the finish.

After the first coat dries thoroughly (I'd wait a day or two) sand very lightly with 400+ grit sandpaper just to knock off nibs. Now you can hand-rub subsequent coats. Go lightly with the 2nd coat as you'll probably still notice a bit of stain on your applicator cloth for the 2nd and 3rd coats, but it shouldn't be nearly as bad.

Another method is to go ahead and rub as you did, but let the cloth get so saturated with the stain that it doesn't actually pick up any more. So you basically end up applying a mixture of stain/poly for your first coat, rather like a tinted poly. That can be somewhat frustrating, so I wouldn't really advise it for the inexperienced. However I do use this method sometimes depending on the nature of the wood and desired look, except I use a thinned, hand-rubbed poly for all coats (and I use a regular stain, not a gel stain).

lazygardens: The preparation I used was exactly what several on this forum recommended, which was first to clean the cabinets, then to sand & wipe with tack cloth, and finally to wipe all down with mineral spirits. Someone said to sand for about 60 seconds per door, but since I wanted to be sure and do it right the first time, I sanded a lot longer -- until there was no more shine on the surface.

chiefneil: What you say makes sense, and I wish I'd read this advice BEFORE I purchased and used the gel urethane. I was basing my process not only on G.F.'s package directions but also on what so many people on this forum said worked perfectly for them: Wiping on two coats of G.F. gel stain followed by wiping on two coats of G.F. gel top coat urethane.

Thanks for all of your comments and advice. Maybe this will save someone else from making the same mistakes I did.

I visited GF's website and it looks like their gel stain contains urethane, so frankly I'm surprised it dissolved after drying for 24-48 hours. It should've been cured by then.

chiefneil: That's exactly what I thought, and thank you for confirming it. I'm no expert, but I have refinished furniture before using regular stain and polyurethane with NO problems. Therefore, when people say something works for them and a company formulates products to work together, you sort of expect things will work properly. Oh well, sorry to beat a dead horse.

I totally agree with you and hope you will contact them tomorrow to find out what the problem is and let us know. I used Olympic Gel Stain so don't have experience with General Finishes. Checking the General Finishes website it certainly looks like the products should work together.

I'm sure with their help you'll get the look you want, but it is a huge disappointment and set back to have to do work over when there's so much else to do.

Just remember in winter you may have to double drying times; cooler air retards curing processes. It's also important to remember that the second coat dries slower anyway, because it has to all dry from the top down. First coats can dry from both sides, half from penetrating the wood, half from the air. The second coat has to dry from the top down, and if the first coat wasn't 100% cured, it's also still trying to dry, and retarding the second coat. I think the top coat was applied too hastily.
If the stain had a sharp disagreeable odor, and was from a previously opened can that had been sitting a long time, it may have gone off. The oils will acidify over time ruining the product. Foul-smelling stains and varnishes must be discarded.
Casey

I noticed this problem when I was doing my cabs, too. In my case, they needed more dry time for sure. I had very humid dry conditions and I know I put the stain on too thick. In latter projects (I recently did a dining table) I put the gel stain on VERY thinly with ample dry time and had no problems with the top coat.

I've also noticed a few spots on my cabs that maybe I missed when I sanded or cleaned, like they had a grease buildup or something and the stain didn't want to take.

Thanks for the additional input, sombreuil_mongrel and projectsneverend! More good information.

UPDATE: I called General Finishes today to discuss the problems I was having with their gel top coat. He informed me that even though I sanded my cabinets, due to the fact that they had previously been finished, there would still have been some wood sealant on the surface of the cabinets, which would hinder absorption and drying. He said I should have waited 4 to 5 days before applying the top coat, but then at another time in our conversation he said that since I was working inside my home (dining room, northern climate w/low humidity, furnace running nearly non stop) that it should have been dry when I applied the top coat. I told him I was too afraid to try the top coat in a few days as it had ruined my stain job before, and I just didn't trust it anymore.

I asked why their instructions didn't address this type of situation, and he said their instructions are for raw wood only.

Ultimately, I have to give a lot of credit to General Finishes, because they stepped up and offered to send me another top coat recommended for my situation: High Performance Polyurethane Water Based Top Coat along with a "kit" to get the job done (which I believe includes a foam brush and I don't know what all.) He recommended 3-4 coats, and with drying time being just a few hours, I can do 2 coats a day.

KUDOS TO GENERAL FINISHES. THEY CARE ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS.

Here's a before & after pic (minus the top coat)

That looks absolutely fabulous :)

That looks great. I'm glad General Finishes was able to help you out. Water base top coat sounds like a better solution for your situation since the oil on oil finish seemed to be part of the problem.

Exactly what I'm doing. Going through the house updating the cabinets without replacing it all.

That looks wonderful! I have a bathroom cabinet just like yours and would love to make it look nicer, how did you sand it down (electric sander or by hand with sand paper)?

ghostlyvision, I used a sanding sponge (one side medium, the other side fine) found at Walmart for about $2.50. Someone here on this forum recommended a sanding sponge if your cabinets have curves/crevices, and it was good advice, much easier than using sand paper. If you have not already done so, may I suggest you search this forum for "gel stain" and read the tips from various posters as the cumulation of everyone's advice will be very helpful.

Thank you, steff and nys29!

Thanks so much Rayle, I have a few sanding sponges but probably ought to get a new one for this project, and will search for the gel stain tips here, I've never used the gel version before. I love the way your cabinet turned out, hope the kit they're sending fixes the finish trouble you've had.

Good luck, ghostlyvision, and let me know if you need any help.

Will do Rayle, and thanks! :)

The same thing just happened to me!!! i underdtand the why, but is their a way to repair without completely resabdung and applying gel stain again. i applied 3 coats to my cabinets.

why in the world even use gel stain vs oil based? please help me with your observations