there are pros and cons to permitting a job
if there are any structural changes i would recomend the permit be pulled. remember, the permits cost a little more but the inspections actually protect you.
I'am sorry butknow body staring at a keyboard cangive you a a ball park figure, unless all the information is known
just be sure to get clear and complete contracts
if its not in writting, it didnot happen..

I wouldn't dream of doing a remodel using outside contractors without a permit. The permit is a protection for you. Your local building department probably has brochures that explain the permitting process and its advantages for you as homeowner.

That said, in California where we live, the cost of the permit supposedly is based on the total cost of the project, but no way was I going to pay permit fees on the costs of new appliances, finishes, etc.

So, I gave my contractor the list of work for which permits would be required (structural, plumbing, electrical, and HVAC), and he gave me the portion of his contract fee that would be paying only for those items. I had a printed list of those items on the cover sheet of our plans, and I listed the cost of ONLY those items as the "total cost of the project". We got the permit with no problem.

Process is a bit different here in that the provincial body that represents electricians oversees the permit process so most licensed electricians recommend a permit (more of an inspection certificate and it doesn't involve the municipal building permit process at all). Final inspection was today (no problems) and they send my Mom, as the homeowner, the certifcate. Neither her insurance or the condo corporation required the certificate but we checked with both.

We hired out individually based on our requirements rather than using a GC and his subs. Going rate here is $65 an hour for plumbers and electricians and that's what we paid.

She did buy her cabinets through Home Depot, they are an exclusive product to HD, she didn't go with HD or the product until after we saw a recent example of their installers work. We would have checked other HD's if it hadn't worked out with this one (we had already passed on one) but I'm not sure we would have hired an installer who didn't know this particular product. I think you will get a better result when an installer knows the product s\he is installing. Kitchen team at this HD had been working together for sometime so process has been pretty smooth, though not without a couple of bumps.

Good luck!

It will cost more than you think is as good an estimate as any from your description. ;)

Average kitchen remodels in the US are now around $30K. That's with no structural changes and very little plumbing or electrical but new cabinets, countertops, appliances, possibly flooring and paint and accessories. About 50% of the budget generally goes for cabinets as they are the hardest thing to change out down the road. 15% is usually for appliances, 15% for countertops, 10% for flooring, and 10% for lighting, fixtures and paint. You may choose to put more emphasis on different aspects, such as higher end appliances, or perhaps flooring for the whole downstairs, etc. You may see yourself as above or below average, but a kitchen remodel will cost you about what it would if you bought a new car. Whether or not you're buying a budget Chevy or a E class Mercedes, only you can decide. BUt, don't go into the project with unrealistic expectations about buying a Mercedes on a Chevy budget. Every bit that you can DIY will increase your budget, but don't overestimate your skills and time spent in that department either, especially if you hold down a full time job.

I wouldn't employ any contractor who advised against permitting. Especially in such a paperwork nightmare state like CA. If your neighbors turned you in, and some of them would, you'd be fined and have to possibly tear everthing out and start over. Not to mention the fact that one of the reasons that more extensive codes apply in CA is for earthquake and fire safety. Those are very good reasons to have your remodel inspected. Yes, it's a bit more of a hassle. But, it's for your protection and ultimately the protection of your friends and neighbors.

We are getting a new kitchen with American Woodmark cabinets. Here in Alaska, my Home Depot told me their install charge would be $100 a cabinet, and it sounds like the quality of their installer might be questionable. My contractor is charging me $35 a cabinet, if that gives you any idea of what kind of markup HD might have.

We actually are doing major structural changes, knocking out two walls, putting up a new wall and a walk-in pantry. We are doing new electrical and plumbing work. Our cost from our contractor for that work, plus kitchen install, plus two windows is about $12,000.

So, with the cost of cabinets ($7,000) and granite counters ($5000) and appliances ($5500) and misc sinks/faucets/hardware/lighting, plus some cushion, I am estimating our cost to be about $30,000.

Just make sure the people you hire have a home improvement license with the state and they have a minimum of a one million dollar insurance polcy with a 2 million dollar aggregate.

Make sure they list you as additionally insureds.

thanks - I know that permits are the "right" thing to do, but in my town, the inspectors apparently have the right to wander through your house once their in and demand changes to things that weren't part of the job, even if they were done before you owned the house. Yikes!

My budget is just a tad over 20K, including budget for trades but not for a contractor, and that includes some headroom as far as labor goes. All good advice though, so thanks again. The markup that HD charges from that Alaska job does sound pricey.

Living in Califoria there are two other considerations about not getting a permit.

One is that you are required to disclose that when you sell your house. If you have a picky buyer that looks the records of your house, they can bring it up and ask you to get a sign off at that late date. That is a real pain.

Also, if you have a fire and the insurance company can point it to non-permited work, they can fight paying the claim.

I can tell you that after I researched this specific question when I lived in California, I dediced that there was no way I was doing work without permits. When we sold, we had three people bidding on the house and one of them required that we should we had permits for all work.

Thanks - I guess I'll just have to take my chances they don't pick apart the rest of the house.

I'm an owner of an old house house. Old = surprises.

As my contractor is going through, he's finding things that 200 years of previous workers did that might or might not have been the right thing to do in their day. It's costing me to fix them now, but I know the job's done right, and my house is as safe as possible. I WANT them to find problems with my house and fix them before it falls in/catches fire/floods from the top down.

I honestly think that's what the vast majority of inspectors are after, particularly in California. Although I'm sure there are a few stinkers out there, as there are in any line of work.

That's why I hired a contractor I really trust. He is actually UNDER budget, and has done some extra safety work on electrical, structure, plumbing, etc. It was a very reasonable budget to begin with, too. And I truly believe what he tells me.

So, do you need a contractor?
Do you have a lot of time to oversee the project and can be there to let people in and out and advise them? Do you know a lot of tradespeople and can you judge the quality of their work? Can you talk their talk? Have you been through a couple of remodels and know the "order of battle"? Are you/were you in a line of work where you handle projects and people? In passing, it sounds like California has a lot of codes. Are you familiar with them enough to handle the inspector? The contractor deals with him/her every day. Is your family as committed as you are to DIYC? Are you planning to stay in the house while you do it?

There are first timers who handle it themselves. I am in awe of them. Truly. If you ask for advice here, they will give it.

But this is your time to pause and reflect and load up on information.

Good luck, whatever you choose!

I live in the Bay Area and have had great experiences with our city. I don't think our city is uniformly great-- I've heard some horror stories, but so far, it has been great. Questions are usually answered by email in less than an hour.

So far I've been there for all but one of the inspections and I wish I was there for that one. Perhaps it is just me, but I like to be there when officials are walking through my house. I let my GC know that I had a strong preference for being there and he has let me know when they are coming up. The one horror story I heard was from someone nearby whose GC didn't show for the inspection. The inspector, supposedly pissed off, walked around and wrote them up for all sorts of violations.

My best advice is to treat the inspector like a dear beloved grandparent. Keep the place as clean as possible. Keep doors to other areas closed. Be nice and always be there when they are arriving.

For reasons that others have stated, I wouldn't do a kitchen remodel without permits.

My only regret in the permit process was my stated value-- I wish I had stated an even lower amount :)

Why would you state a lower amount? Aren't inspectors trained to notice things like appliance costs, etc? Wouldn't they get even more ticked off if someone lied on their financial estimate to escape fees?