You're referring to the machines that can wash at near-boiling temperatures, like 205degF. If you don't regularly wash stuff which can tolerate that temperature (white cottons, without elastic or synthetic threads, from what I've read), then it would just be a novelty, and not worth sacrificing other things that might matter to you, like size, or reliability and maintainability (I've heard Asko service can be hard to find).

By the way, Bosch still sells 220V compact washers in the USA. But as far as I can tell from the manual, they don't do near-boiling washes.

The Miele W4840 can do an "extended wash with hot temperature" up to 158degF. I'm pretty happy with it, but undoubtedly there is something better out there. Someone recently asked about the Miele "Little Giant" commercial washer. Apparently it's a decent size, and can heat the water very quickly to near-boiling, but it's expensive. Maybe that's the "something better" you're looking for...if Miele commercial service is available in your area.

I can't tell you how much you have helped me in this matter. Of course you are right.

There is one thing that still intrigues me. Why was the 220v
brought to the US market for some time and then changed to the 120v? So many people seem disappointed with the change and are terribly devoted to the European style washer.

Both the Miele and the Asko have made this change in their top of the line machines.

Did a wash this morning, and it reminded me of another potential benefit of the washers with larger heaters: For washes at more normal temperatures, they heat faster than a 120V machine. It was a full wash of sheets, with the machine set to 122degF ("very warm"). I've got a long hot-water lag, and it was first thing in the morning, so the fill was effectively cold. 20 minutes into the wash, the timer countdown paused for 20 minutes to let the water finish heating. This was probably worst-case; if it had been an "extended" wash, then more heating would have occurred during the regularly scheduled wash time, and it would have paused for less time. If the water in the pipes had been warmer, that would have helped too. But I'm not in a hurry, and I get the idea that you aren't either.

Why they stopped selling 220V machines here: Maybe they couldn't sell enough to make it worthwhile. Not everyone has a 220V outlet available, or is willing or able to install one. And the Euro features probably don't matter to most Miele buyers here. They probably buy Miele for the quality and prestige, not to do European-style laundry.

Speaking of European-style washing: The W4840 can be hooked up to cold water only. So if you don't mind having the machine heat the water for every wash, you can do the Euro-style "profile washes" some people talk about.

Depsite the smaller-looking sizes, you may be surprised by how much you can wash in the Euro-style machines.

Have you measured a typical load of clothes as you sort them now? True horizontal axis machianes can handle more than tilted horizontal machines for the same apparent drum size.

Try weighing a load of dry clothes next time before you wash. If they weigh 11 lbs or less, you could easily use the 220V Asko. Miele made slightly larger 220V machines - but, no more - they could handle up to 13 lbs.

I own both Asko and Miele 220V washing machines; if, heaven forbid, one of them died, I would go to a lot of trouble to repurchase similar machines as they are very satisfactory. My Askos are now 16 years old, and the Mieles half that and they have performed well despite very hard service.

Parts for both ASko and Miele are a pain to get, but my husband who does the rare servicing needed says they are very easy to work on.

One rarely noted advantage of a 220V machine is that they can be fed cold water only and will make whatever temps required, freeing you from having to size your water heater to supply both the household and the machaine simultaneously. I often toss my farm clothes into the washer and take a hot bath at the same time. Pure bliss.

There's another European 220V brand, AEG, but it can only be purchased from Canada, presenting more extended service problems. The vendor, Euro-line Appliances, sells them there.

HTH,

o~

I have one of the 220V 6K Mieles. You are correct about the speed of heating. There is no difference in cycle time between a 105F warm wash and a 120F very warm wash. The difference between 120F wash and a 140F or 190F wash is about 7 minutes. When both 220V and 120V were listed on the Miele web site I also saw that the 220V used slightly Less KW than the 120V.

I think the change is due to the fact that many many folks did not want to pay to have 220V run to a washer. They will do it for a dryer, but not a washer. Also apartments and rental units sometimes do not have 220V service.

120V with it's characteristics is the voltage that was settle on in the USA. In Europe and other places they settled on 220V. Miele, Asko, and Bosch are simply responding to the majority and now supply what is common in the market - 120V. I don't care for it - but I am in the minority.

The 220V Miele would have to use more KW's than the 120V, because more KW's are what makes it heat faster, right?

In the end I think it comes down to differing laundry habits, not the voltage difference. People here expect to use high-wattage electric dryers and electric stoves (in the absence of gas, anyway), so the appropriate 240V outlets are customarily installed in those places. They don't expect their washer to heat its own water, and often don't even care how hot their wash water really is, so a 240V circuit isn't furnished for the washer.

Thanks for the help. So, in your opinion would the new Asko 120v work almost as well as the Asko 220v? There is a 220v Asko available for the US, but it is smaller and made to be integrated into the cabinets I believe, but it is a bit confusing.

I did call Asko and I have at least four companies that work on their products in my area. There is also service available for Miele, which covers one area of problems that many experience.

Am I correct in understanding the 220v has an outside heating element while the 120v does not? The newer XXL Asko's temperature range is from cold to 155 degrees. The 220v has a range of cold, 85-205 degrees. How much of a cleaning difference could I really expect between these two machines?

Not sure if this helps but I used Supra 220 volt WD combo since I was use to boil my whites from europe. But the machine is very small, most of the european machines are much smaller than what we are use to here in USA. I don't use synthetic fabric so the boiling water was big plus for me. Because of the size I switched to large LG and the water goes to only 158 ( I think ). However it still does good job on my whites and I don't miss the hotter water.
When it comes to cost of operating 220 or 110, I didn't notice difference in my bill. With the small washer I did laundry almost everyday and big pieces like comforters or blankets didn't fit in.
But I also have on demand water heater just behind the wall where my washer is so I get hot water in faster than in most cases so maybe my washer doesn't have to heat it up as much, maybe that is saving money too.
The little Supra was hooked up to cold water only and comparing those two machines, it took about the same for the wash cycle from start to finish.

Cchick, you have given me an idea. I wonder if I might be able to purchase a tankless/on demand water heater that would only service the washing machine. The smaller ones are not so expensive - only around $200 - $250. From what I am reading, you can adjust the temperature on the heaters. I will check into this.

Housekeeping is correct in that most of my laundry loads would not require the larger machine. One of the things I love about front loaders though is the ability to wash larger quilts, ect. On the Asko web site, it says the smaller Asko could wash up to a queen size quilt. Needing the larger size for a king quilt would only come into play a small percentage of the time so I am not certain I should make a decision based upon that, but it would be great to have both options.

I will ask my plumber today about the on demand/tankless heater and let you know what he tells me.

Some washer specs call for a minimum fill rate. Look up the fill rate, and the desired temperature rise, on a sizing chart for on-demand heaters. I think you'll find that a small heater won't do the job. You would need a bigger one with its own 240V circuit...maybe even at 50 amps.

The manual for my Miele W4840 says it can wash up to a 84x88 "full size" comforter. We have washed such comforters successfully. We once tried a "full/queen" comforter (don't have the dimensions), and the door had to be forced shut, so we didn't wash it. So a queen-size comforter wouldn't fit in the small Asko. A quilt must be thinner.

suburbanmd

The 220V washer is still on the Miele web site. The W1215 is 220V and is stated to consume 127 KWH per year. The W3033 is 120V and is stated to consume 139 KWH per year. I thought this was wrong, so I placed a message on the electrical forum. Several "electrical" folks replied to it. Turns out that 220V can be more efficient than 120V. I think the thing that makes it heat faster is mostly do to the voltage.

Doesn't matter now because you almost cannot find any 220V Miele machines and I think the newer machines are more flexible than the 1215.

I do wish Miele would make a 220V large 4X machine so that we could have a choice. Why make a large machine holding more clothes with a smaller heater that takes longer than the smaller machine holding less clothes? Most of us in the USA that have the 220V washers had to get the electric run to anyway so why not give the consumer a choice of heater power we want. However 120V is the standard in the USA so this is what we get.

My household is fine with the size of the machine since after sorting by color, and fabric type, and in my case by temperature, there just aren't enough clothes to completely fill a larger Miele washer. I washed a queen size comforter in the 6K machine yesterday. It does take up the entire tub, but using the delicate cycle with it's high water fills, enables it to get completely washed and well rinsed.

The tankless water heater was one of my best little investments. But I had to pay for 240V conduit from garrage through the attic going back to garrage to be hooked up on other wall. It took two 40 brakers. The electician did beautifull job though. Among other good things w/ the tankless, the water smells so clean and fresh b/c it doesn't sit in the tank. The water temp is adjustable. We got the tankless heater in HD, it was 650 bucks plus the plumber and electrician. It's been over two years and no problems. If anybody needs to replace water heater I would say go w/ tankless. They do make small units for individual sinks, laundry rooms, spas and there are units for pools too.

KW is the rate of energy usage, KWH is the total amount of energy used. The 220V washers are plugged into an outlet that can deliver more KW i.e. the energy is delivered faster. Those machines take advantage of the greater KW available, by powering a larger water heater that can heat the water faster.

Theoretically, it takes the same amount of energy (same KWH) to heat a given amount of water by a given number of degrees, regardless of the KW rate. Practically speaking, heat is lost while the water is heating, so it's more efficient to heat it as fast as possible. Therefore a 220V machine would waste less energy while heating the water, and use fewer KWH. Also, the machine keeps tumbling while heating the water, which is additional energy used while the slower 120V washer is heating.

I don't think the energy label numbers (127 KWH vs. 139 KWH per year) even include the energy used by the water heater. It's just the energy used by the motor and electronics. Water heating energy consumption, and more important drying energy consumption, are the bigger parts of laundry energy usage.

Hi. This is my first posting. I would like to know what direction you decided to go in and what has been the results of your decision. Currently, I'm trying to decide if I should purchase an Asko w6222 washer with cold water intake only and a 220v hookup or a larger 110v machine like the Miele 4800 with cold and hot water intake and a 110v hookup. The 4800 is less expensive than the 4840 and I don't have to pay an electrician for the hookup and an extra charge for the stand on the Asko. I went to a local distributor for Asko today and they had a display model that was pretty badly scratched with a few dings. I don't want to pay the price for this unit. I do like the idea of a 220v. Another consideration is that we have four children with a family of six. Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you. Lisa

From various postings on this forum, I've gotten the impression that 4800 owners are less satisfied than 4840 owners. May not be a valid observation, since there are so few of either.

Miele still manufactures and sells 220V machines in the North American Market. You might want to check them out in addition to the Asko offerings. Specifically, take a look at the Miele W1213 and W1215 models. They're not quite the super-capacity of the W4800 machines, but still should be entirely sufficient for a family of six.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele W1213 Washer

Spanish manufacturer Fagor recently started selling a line of appliances, including both 220v and 110v washers and vented and condensation (ventless) dryers in the USA. Their key features:

white or silver
13" door opening w/180° door swing (right hinged)
Energy Star certified
7 kg capacity
3 cu.ft.
tilted drum
draws up to 2200w
heats water up to 195°F.
1200rpm max spin speed
cold washes in 30-50 min.
intense/extra rinse options
LCD display
stackable w/vented or condensation dryer
anti-overflow & anti-vibration features

Looks like a less expensive alternative to the Asko/Miele/Bosch and one with the key advantages of 220v power - fast speeds, high temperature options.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fagor America

I realize this is a dead thread, but just going to throw it out there in case anyone has an opinion.

Since Miele no longer offers the 220v washing machine and you had to choose b/w an older Asko (w6461) that is a 220v (reaching temps up to 205 degrees) that you found used on Craigslist or a brand new Miele that is only a 110v (only going up to 158 degrees)....which would you choose?

Hoping to get some feedback from someone who has owned an older and newer Miele.

I really want the 220, b/c I want to use the high temp wash regularly. But have also realized that after reading many forums/reviews that the Miele is a better longer lasting brand.

Thanks for your input!

Carie