Is it too late to start over with this design? The hood may be installed, but I bet it could be moved easily. If you don't cook, I wouldn't try to cram so many appliances in such a small kitchen. You don't need a prep sink in a kitchen that small. Having the range opposite the fridge (I assume that is the fridge) is an accident waiting to happen. You have no landing space for the fridge and no work space to the left of the range.

I dont think it is too late to start over but it is getting close. I met the cabinet guy today and I told him I would have everything ready early this week. I do think it needs a second sink. The island is pretty big. Also, the little sink is near the pool, which comes up under the patio. It would be nice to have a sink so people can come in and grab water. The big sink is about 18 feet away from the glass sliders on that side of the island. The built in behind will have a fridge and built-in ovens behind. The island has a cooktop. Do you have any other ideas how to configure it? I really appreciate any advice.

Below is a terribly out of proportion plan I made on powerpoint. And a link to pics of the kitchen/house.

Below is a link to pics of the kitchen. It is actually quite big. There is plenty of room to move back behind the seating area. There is not much room on the

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen

It's difficult to read some (most) of the measurements...you said your island is 9.5', yet it appears to be only 9' (well, 9'1"...but that's not 9.5').

Because you're asking, I'm going to be honest...

What I see is a lot of wasted counter space and very little counterspace where it's actually needed...if you cook, that is. If you don't cook then it probably doesn't matter (except for re-sale...it would have to be priced lower for me b/c I'd consider it a complete re-do after purchasing.)

So, is this meant to be a "showplace" kitchen or a working kitchen? You say "I think I might take up cooking". If that's the case, then you probably want a functional kitchen...correct?

Where are you flexible? I assume the windows are set and cannot be changed (based on your pictures).

Where does the kitchen fit with the rest of the house? Where do each of the doors/halls lead? What rooms are behind the various kitchen walls?

I really don't think there's anything so wrong with this. I've cooked in plenty of kitchens that had a range right up against a wall. In your case, because the wall isn't there, it will be ok. I like tight work zones for everyday use. If you want to do something BIG (holiday cookies), you have acres of counter on either side of the cleanup sink.

Personally, I'd increase the counter overhang or decrease the depth of the cabinets on the back side of the island to 18". That increases the comfort of the people sitting. It might help with feeling like stuff becomes lost in those cabinets.

And maybe practice that ref wall config - I think maybe go ref/storage/ov instead of storage/ov/ref - be easier to build a bar on the island when entertaining and/or get a beer during a sporting event.

I am not a layout expert, but I would consider moving the fridge, pantry, and ovens to the sink wall, then the cooktop to the center of where the fridge and ovens are. keep the prep sink where it is. You could take things out of the fridge to the island, oroe things on the island and then cook on cooktop. If you want drinks besides water accessible from the pool, you could have an under cabinet fridge in the base cabinet near cooktop.

This idea might get torn apart, but it would give you more workspace where you need it.

Do you really need two dishwashers????? Most families that cook only need one...two seems overkill in this instance.

Is the "O" double wall ovens? MW + single wall oven? Other?

How wide is the refrigerator? It looks like 42" or 48" in the first drawing, 36" in the last..

The last drawing isn't scaled, so you really have to look at the first one :)

If you check out the pictures of the house itself, a documented modernist box (in Palm Springs?), this formalized layout is kind of what this house 'needs'.

I might do it differently if starting from scratch, but whatever it ends up, imo, it needs to be a symmetrical, formal, minimal, layout.

The two DW thing will work here because nothing will ever need to be left on the counter or sink. They will either rotate as the clean and dirty or function in some other way, but it means that there should always be a DW to put something in should one be running or one full of clean stuff but unemptied.

All in all, I think it works. I could definitely see cooking in this kitchen as is, the personal shortcoming for me being as a Left hander I would want to lift off the cooktop to the left.

Is it two dishwashers or two DW drawers separated so that they both are at counter height? I like that idea, you have the room.

Those glass walls are stunning...and so is the stonework! IMO, this kitchen is very spacious.

The only thing I might change is moving the refrigerator to the opposite side, across from the sink, so it doesn't interfere with the cooktop, and is closer to the pool!

Hopefully, you'll share pics when it's done...

Thank you so much for your replies. Yes, it is two dishwasher single drawers. They will not be noticeable as the bank of cabs will be 24" drawers all the way across. I have the choice of floating the bank of cabinets, or having a deeply recessed toe kick. The cabinets will be 8-10" off the floor.

Even though I dont cook, I never know when I meet a guy who does. :) Or I might take it up myself.

The island dimensions are wrong in the drawing! It is 9.5 feet x 5 feet, but I can make it however deep I want it as there is no shortage of space. I can make the seating area deeper than 12". Maybe I should go to 16"? There are two back to back banks of 24" cabinets.

I am planning on an oven microwave and the architect wants a 42" fridge/freezer. The built in part will actually wait a few months so there is not a rush configuring it.

The builtin area was actually a wall that jutted into the kitchen. There was a washer dryer on the other side and electrical paneling. No one felt comfortable removing the wall, so I moved it and all the plumbing back so that I could build into it for the kitchen and make the back a pantry with custom walnut sliding doors (not cheap!). I like the idea of moving the fridge closer to the pool!

dar and palimpsest, yes! It is a minimalist kitchen. The island mirrors the built ins which is the focal point of this area of the house. The kitchen dining room/ livng room are HUGE. It is a long expanse of floor to ceiling glass walls punctuated by a fireplace and an occasional red rock wall. There will be no uppers.

Should I float the 18' length of cabinets? Should I eat the cost and buy a smaller sink?

palimpsest, what might you have done differently? Maybe it is not too late to talk to the architect about changing things...I have invested so much money and time in this house. I had to take it to the studs to undo all the extra walls, etc. that the previous owners had added.

looking from living room towards kitchen

house layout...ignore the green - it is where I had considered putting the island early on.

As I see the entire space, I probably would not do anything differently.

I was thinking along the lines of not having the cooktop on the island so as to not have a prominent hood, however anything that I would have done as a result would have moved the refrigerator and ended up tethering the floating sink run to the ceiling (sideways T shaped?).

I think your current massing is going to be very visually successful you have a tall monolithic block that relates to the fireplace and a low one in space in front of it--kind of like a tall one tipped over-- and then a floating counter that intersects the two.

What are you doing for your hood? I hope it doesn't have much of a "shape" to it?

Here is one hood that could work without introducing another "shape"

{{!gwi}}

I am not sure of what I am thinking hoodwise:

White rectangle like this?

A rectangle covered in walnut?

A rectangle covered in mirror? :-D

I understand that Palimpsest thinks nothing should change b/c of aesthetics...but I find it dysfunctional with the refrigerator and cooktop directly across from each other and then the oven. What I see is cramming the refrigerator, cooktop, and oven into a small space when there's so much more room.

All the counterspace flanking the sink & DW is, IMO, wasted...it's too far from anything else to be useful. Think about it, do you really need 18' of space just for dirty dishes? The vast majority of it certainly is not placed for easy prepping or cooking.

If you insist on an island cooktop, at least put additional space b/w the cooktop and edge...preferably 24" for a safety margin. Maybe if you turned the island 90 degrees you could lengthen it and allow you to have more space. You could put the prep sink on the end nearest the dining area and it will still be accessible from the pool.

What work space do you need?

Work space in the Prep Zone (usually b/w the range/cooktop and sink)...a minimum of 36", 42" is better.

Work space in the Cooking Zone: minimum 18" on one side, 24" on the other. However, when the cooktop/range is on an open end of a run, 24" on each side. If on an island or peninsula, 18" behind the appliance if no seating, 24" if there is seating (I would prefer 24" regardless, but others here disagree.)

Workspace in the Cleanup Zone: 24" on each side preferably NOT shared w/the other zones. If you must share one side w/another zone, then at least 36" to 42" on the non-DW side for prepping.

Or, move the refrigerator and maybe the oven(s) from the "built ins" wall and place the cooktop in that alcove. You don't have to have a fancy hood...it can still be a sleek modern hood to satisfy the "minimalist" style if that's what you're aiming for. Certainly better than having a hood hanging down in your face and being a commanding presence in the kitchen/dining area.

Another question to RockyBird...do you mean a MW plus a wall oven? Or do you mean one appliance to serve as both? If the former, OK. However, if the latter, that means if you're using the MW you have no oven available. If you're using the oven, you have no MW available. I really recommend you get at least a single wall oven and a MW or a single wall oven plus a second oven that's a MW/Oven combination.

Beautiful hood! Thank you palimpsest! Unfortunately there is a soffit with a HUGE AC duct running the length of the lr/kitchen/dr. The previous owners had separated the kitchen from the great room by adding a wall and dropping the ceiling to the glass (!). I am not sure why someone would do this. The kitchen was like a dark cave. I took down the wall and cut the soffit back to the duct so it ran the length of the great room. I dont know how to mount a hood with this soffit in the way.

I bought a strong exhaust fan that mounts inside the soffit which thereby limits symmetric cooktop placement. The motor mounts on the roof. The architect insisted on one in which the motor could be mounted on the roof to cut down the noise. I will have a custom ss grate made to cover the hole. You can see where we ended up installing it in the pics above - the exhaust duct is sticking out. It is now wired also with separate controls. It is made for kitchens. Do you think that is all right? It was fairly expensive and had good reviews.

"I would have done as a result would have moved the refrigerator and ended up tethering the floating sink run to the ceiling (sideways T shaped?). What does this mean? Do you agree on floating those cabinets? It is extra expense, but I think it would look great...Sometimes I tend to go overboard though. Thank you again for your advice! It is a huge help.

Thanks buehl. I meant a microwave and a separate oven. I am considering miele. The thing is that I do want the monolithic look that palimpsest is referring to. Should I go with a 30" cooktop instead? That might give me more room on the left, although not much more. I will be at the house today and I will measure to see how much room there actually will be to the end. I can swap the fridge and pantry location so that the fridge is closer to the pool. The built in area only has 9.5 feet of space. So after a 42" fridge, 27" micro and oven, there is not much space left. I agree the 18' will not be as useful as the island space. I even thought about cutting the end back near the carport door and putting in a george nelson bench.

I have nothing to add about the kitchen layout. I just want to say OMG, what a fantastic house! It is pretty much everything I wish for in a house. It is great to see you putting so much care and thought into the remodel. Please please please post some pics when you finish!

Oh I would move the refrigerator down to the other end, I thought that was already decided.

What I meant is on the current sink wall I probably would have done a tall /floating Think l-----) with the ovens and fridge column at the carport door with the end floated off of that--
Then cooktop in that mass that is currently the fridge ovens pantry, It would look like a buffet essentially; then prep and storage on the island (complete with undercounter or drawer freezers(?).

Other than the issue with the fridge being at the wrong end
of the tall mass, I don't think this kitchen is ergonomically unfit. Sure there is a lot of counterspace along the right wall that is outside the zone, but it tops storage.

In this case I think function has to be trumped a bit by esthetics.

yillimuh, thank you! You dont know how much that means to me to hear. Sometimes I wonder if I bit off more than I can chew!

Thank you again palimpsest. We tried that, but I think there is not enough room with the wall across from the cabinets to open the doors and move comfortably, especially in a walk through. The wall is 50" long. There is only 42" at most between wall and counter. Is that too small? I could reconsider the carport end if not. Nothing is set in stone yet.

Excuse the blurry pics, but I think that you are going for something even more elemental and stripped down than this, correct?

What I had been thinking was a version of what I have on the left wall as your sink wall, and a version of what I have on the back wall where you have your talls. Its the whole thing kind of flipped around. Your Ovens would be where my oven/TV stack is, then fridge then counters with no uppers. But it would all be on the other wall with the ovens and fridge toward the back near the range.

And in essence you are going for something like this...although this layout is completely different.

I really like that idea, but I am worried it will be too crowded because of the wall. The original owners had pantrys there and it seemed very cramped.

What about if I put the cooktop under the sink and moved the big sink to the island, flanked by built in dishwashers? Then put the smaller sink to the left or right of the cooktop?

or would it look funny to have a huge sink in the middle of the island by itself?

Okay...I know I am obsessed and probably no one is reading this by now, but anyway...what if I just move the cooktop to the middle of the island? I will have to move the fan, but I can do that. That would probably give me a foot to the left of the cooktop and 39 inches on the right...I dont know if that is worth moving the fan for?

I think with the arrangement of all tall backing the island, island and long counter-no uppers, that the arrangement you started with is best.(with the exception of the fridge moving left).

The 18' cabinet run is not "pretty useless" because there is storage underneath it. With no uppers, maybe the LR/DR end of the counter gets a big piece of brutalist sculpture on it? The idea is to suppress the kitchen, right?

SINCE you looked and juggling the arrangement more than what I am about to say, consider this: For the sake of completion I would discuss with your architect the possibility of making the soffit take a left over over the island, connecting up with the tall wall and centering the cooktop in the island. (In other words "contain" the kitchen by following the shape of the island and aisle behind it on the ceiling. Then put the prep sink at the left edge of the island (maybe a smaller one)

This gets the cooktop in a safer position. Then the fridge would be left behind the prep sink, the pantry in the middle the ovens and microwave right.

I REALLY think this kitchen will work in the original configuration , and it could be made a bit safer with the range centered.

Now it is time for me to annoy people and say that you won't get a tremendous amount of support in this forum for allowing aesthetics to trump National Kitchen Bath Association guidelines to this degree. The kitchens that get planned here are ergonomic to the nth degree but as a consequence they are conventional. Your house/kitchen is a different animal.

Thank you so much for your understanding palimpsest. I am at the house and just found that the cooktop will likely not work where the exhaust hood is installed, if it is to lie symmetrically under the hood! The cooktop edge will be less than an inch from the countertop edge. This is not good. I dont know if this is functionally possible. I would be worried about my one year old niece and nephew pulling pots off the cooktop. I think your idea of extending a thin strip of soffit to the end of the edge of the island may be the only soln., unless the exhaust can be reinstalled in the roof where there is no soffit. Does the cooktop exhaust need to be right over , the cooktop? maybe there is a way to incorporate the lights and exhaust in one extended part of soffit over the middle.

This is not good! This has turned into a mess! Thank you for your words of encouragement.

Here is what I was thinking.

This reflects whats going on beneath it too, rather than bisecting it down the middle like the old soffit did.

While you are at it, a hood up that high is not going to be very effective. Better than nothing but not very. (and your ceiling will get dirty). This may be your opportunity to consider something like the hood I showed above. It may be interesting to have one of these masses attached to the ceiling: You have one attached to the wall (sink run); one to the floor (island) one that bridges the two--why not one suspended from the ceiling?

{{!gwi}}

Uh oh...children just entered the mix. Safety now becomes even more important. While you can tell yourself that adults should know better and whatever they do is at their own risk and their own responsibility (putting lawsuits aside); you cannot say that about children. In fact, having two of my own, being the oldest of six, having twenty-three nieces & nephews, and being around children of all ages most of my life, I can tell you that running around and having fun are far more important than safety to a child.

The island will be so much fun for them to run around and around and around...no matter how many times you tell them not to or even yell at them. Children do not understand about danger...and now the cooktop is on the edge. This is a big red flag for me...but then I value safety (and functionality) pretty highly...especially where children are concerned.

You're right Palimpsest...I'm a "function trumps form" person while you are often the opposite...and I think I'm coming to the realization that RockyBird also values form over function. That's OK...it's her kitchen, not mine, so whatever she wants...it's her prerogative.

I'm sorry RockyBird, but based on your initial post I had thought you wanted a more functional kitchen. I will no longer bring up function...form it is and I think I will bow out of this discussion b/c I think Palimpsest can help you better in this case (form over function).

(Please, just be very careful when your young nieces & nephews are around!)

Good luck!

You are the best! That is a great drawing...very artistic also. I think you are right on the soffit. It is too bad because I just cut that soffit back. :( And I paid $600 for the vent plus electrical and installation. Can I still keep it where it is for back up ventilation, if I get a hood? Is there any way to add a hood without moving the soffit (I am guessing it will look uneven), or have a hood custom made with the exhaust fan I bought?

I am making so many costly mistakes: the sinks, the hood, etc. It is very discouraging.

Thank you again Pamplisest.

Thank you buehl! You are correct - I did post inquiring as to function. I just want some of both. I think I will find an answer. To improve function, the fridge and cooktop need to be relocated. To maintain form, I can keep the built-ins with their walnut panels in place (I hope).

Buehl,

I recommended moving the cooktop away from the edge Three Posts before you washed your hands because Rockybird and I were endangering children and adults alike. I do think esthetics are going to trump some of the function in this kitchen (as it does the entire house) but I am not an irresponsible idiot.

Rockybird.

I think you already understood you would have to move the cooktop without being told you were endangering your relatives and going to be sued by your friends right? after all you brought it up, too.

You could most likely have a hood custom made with the fan you bought. I am imagining it is an insert, made to go in a hood, no? This would be the opportunity to have a walnut box suspended from the ceiling.(?)

But it will have to be moved anyway because you can't have the edge of the range at the edge of the island. Centering the range will improve safety a lot, ergonomics somewhat, and I think aesthetics because centering makes it more balanced against its backdrop, and the soffit won't be bisecting that island of tall cabinets from all the way across the room.

So maybe you are out a sink. Can you return it? Can you sell it on eBay? More drywall labor and moving electrical around, also maybe not so much in the scheme of things.

Yes, you are right on all acts. I am out the small sink if I change it to a smaller one. Do you think I really should? It is 20" long and beautiful. The cabinet guy took it yesterday to make me a temporary sink so that I can move in (paying two mortgages and need to rent one out!). The bigger sink is too small for the 48" base cabinet, so I was thinking of TRYING to return it for the 47" blanco with three sinks. If I am stuck with two extras, I will use one for a laundry sink and suck it up and try to sell on ebay. I think I have to accept some loss in remodeling.

Do you think I can make a walnut paneled cooktop without expanding the soffitt?

I would try out a 30" cooktop instead of 36" if you haven't chosen one

114"/2= 57 (center of island if its 9'6"

36"/2 = 18 (half of 36" cooktop on each side.

57-18 = 39 inches left over for sink On the non sink side you just went from 1" to about three feet. Much safer.

39-23 (20" sink ~3" from edge) = 16 for prep/setdown between sink and cooktop....a bit tight. Ok-ish for set down, tight for prep

A 30" cooktop gives you three more inches or 19. If you go to a smaller sink you could only improve this. If you went all the way to the 13 x 18 Blanco, you could have 26" of prep, set-down. That is within recommendations. A skinny trough, entertainment sink parallel to the patio doors even more room.

If it were Me, I would rework the soffit. It may be easier to go over the area underneath than reorganize what is in the ceiling as it exists.

I just wanted to interject that Palimpsest's "I am not an irresponsible idiot" is my favorite GW line of the day.

Rockybird, if you have to, slow your cabinetmaker and GC down a bit. Take a deep breath and get the design right before they do any more work that will have to be undone. One can live without a real kitchen for a very long time, if necessary. (We're at the ten-month mark, here, and despite having four kids to cook for it hasn't really been all that painful.) Don't worry too much--it looks to me like you're very close to getting both form and function.

I agree about centering the cooktop and either going smaller with the prep sink or turning it to be narrower. I think the clean up sink flanked by dws on the side makes a great deal of sense. When your cooktop was near the edge, all the edge side was wasted as a work spot. Centered, you have 2 places for prep, plating or whatever you need.
The fridge closer to the pool to keep traffic out of the cook's hair is also a great idea.
I love your open floor plan and can't wait to see how this turns out. My first house was wide open with not a single wall on the living space level and we loved it. Our only complaint was no place to store a broom, lol. It was 3 open rooms in a row and worked wonderfully for us and when entertaining. Moving to a conventional house was a big shock, esp the normal height ceilings. We are in the process of opening this one's floor plan up while extending and renovating, but it will be less of a long layout and more squared off. I think your glass wall with a great view will be stunning and the interior will give a nice view itself ;)

LOL! That was a great comment. I agree.

I found a 15" blanco. Should I get that? And keep the 36" size for a cooktop? Would 30" hurt the value of the home? I think I am okay with 30" if not.

I am wondering about coming up with something creative with a walnut paneled squared hood but maybe incorporate it into something that can run the length of the island, maybe with lights, and preserve the soffit.

I am overwhelmed. :( But it is no one fault, but mine. I have until tomorrow to decide on the 36" cooktops - one thermador marked down 1000 and one gaggenau marked down 800. But I might be able to get a deal on a 30" gaggenau. I am working 60 hours a week, and I have no gc. Although I had a gc help with the permits, I am managing the sub contractors myself. The architect is a huge help also.

Dianalo! You saved me. You made the first comment on the ineffeciency of the design. You saved me both money and headache. Thank you!

palimpsest, are you a designer? or architect? You really know your stuff. Thank you.

I think if you go with a smaller sink you may be able to keep a 36" cooktop. I would draw it out and see what you think if I were you. Play with the options on a piece of paper.

I have an interior design degree but I work full-time in another profession. I take on individual design jobs as they interest me or by word-of-mouth.

Even though Buehl and I have our obvious differences don't discount Buehl's technical knowledge and skills. She helps a lot more people than I do in this forum. My niche is just more outside the box--usually by necessity.

I 2nd what Dianalo said about the wasted space from the cooktop if you had it on the edge. Plus you would have been a nervous wreck everytime small kids are over cause you will be constantly on your guard to keep the kids away from the cooktop.

I didn't like the 1st design at all. I'm glad you decided to swap the frige. Thats what I would do also.

On the new layout, I'd go for swapping the dw/sink/dw to island. Cooktop with hang down hood would be on the other wall. I figured if I'm entertaining and guest would sit there and eat you can put the dirty dishes in dw conviently as it will be on the island.

Good luck. You're almost there!

I liked the "not an idiot" comment not because it discounted any of buehl's concerns about safety (quite the opposite, in fact--and my kitchen will function well in great part because of all that I gleaned from her extensive help posts) but because I have wanted to declare that exact thing to at least eighteen people since beginning my kitchen project, who hear my ideas and look at me as if I have two heads.

Why do you have a deadline for deciding on cooktops?

I understand that, yes.

I had been concerned about the position of the range all along, because the 9-12" inches that were there were enough that I could see Trying to use it as set down and then having things end up on the floor. But I think since Rockybird doesn't cook a lot, she needed, after she was told this, to process it--and when it came to the point of the cookop ending up At the edge, she did. Sometimes I think its best to take the longer way around to reach a conclusion instead of being told "no, no, no," and maybe not fully getting why it won't work in your own particular situation.

This is going to be an unusual kitchen with a long uninterrupted swath of counterspace that is there not to function as workspace, but to top storage, serve as an occasional buffet, and importantly in this case, make a statement. There is the room for it, and this is the house for it.

Thank you guys. The people on this board are so helpful. Palimpsest, that explains it. You are very talented. As is beuhl.

The architect emailed and said he is planning on the cooktop NOT being centered under the exhaust hood. He said no one will notice that. He is planning on 18" from the left. I did miss the meeting with the cabinet guy as I had to work. Maybe they discussed this.

I believe that both sinks need to be changed out. Should I move the sink to the island and the cooktop to the long counter stretch? I really want the other side to be a wall of walnut, although I dont think I will be able to hide the oven/microwave?

Here are the sinks I was thinking of getting, although wow! the big one is expensive.

{{gwi:1565149}}

{{!gwi}}

and a similar look I found online:

You may not want a triple sink since you also have a prep sink. You may be fine with one large bowl or a large bowl and a side sink.

You will want to determine whether one sink or both gets a disposer. I would think both. The prep sink for vegetable scraps, and the main sink for scraping plates.

18" edge + 36" cooktop + 20" wide sink + 12" edge = 86" and a working area of 28" between the sink and cooktop?

Particularly if you are going with the larger sink I would put it right to the edge, 2-3 inches in, not 12, and increase that working area to 38. But I would still go for the smaller rectangular prep sink, also close to the edge.

Rockybird, I love that you are rehabilitating this house. I am looking forward to the completed project!

Bmorepanic has a good point with the math. Not much free counter space. Personally, I would find it very difficult to cook there. We just completed a renovation of a perfectly good, but ill functioning kitchen. I would never have guessed how much more pleasurable I find cooking now with all the layout wisdom I gleaned from the gurus here (particularily Beuhl, Bmorepanic, & Rhome).

I think it's more difficult for you making these decisions since you don't cook a lot now. And if you don't, then, indeed, form trumps function. I think it will LOOK spectacular. Palimpsest has awesome taste! But if you ever do really start to cook, the layout will probably become frustrating. (It took me 9 years in my house to become really frustrated!)

Anyway, that's my 2 cents, for what it's worth. I am really excited for you and your plans!

I've been working on the math and the smaller sink, too:) Range away from the edge: check. Smaller sink, more prep space: in development :)

Sorry for the delay in responding to your advice! I didnt get home until 10PM tonight. I have been reading this thread on my iphone today but have not had time to respond. The hospital where I work blocks this website. I bought the gaggenau 36" cooktop today (cheaper than the 30"!) and two kitchenaid single drawer dishwashers. They will not bill me until they ship them in Feb.

I spoke to the architect who is going to meet me out there on sat. He said he will look at moving the cooktop to the middle but was trying to balance the sink on the end by putting the cooktop towards the end.

I spoke to a friend at work who said the island faucet needs to stretch to the cooktop to fill the pans with water. I have this faucet, but need to see if it can reach. Is this standard? Should I have bought a bigger faucet?

kwc isand faucet:

hansgrohe main faucet:

Thank you all again. I really cant tell you how much I appreciate your help.

Pal pointed out your thread to me. The first thing that popped in my mind (besides Pal not being an idiot), was the kitchen linked below. It has several similarities to your kitchen.

Check out "modern" in the kitchen archives for several more - the Indoor Outdoor Kitchen, for example.

Can't wait to see what you come up with. My island is about the same size as yours. I have a double sink with double DD on one side.

fwiw, we had a roof mounted Thermador vent in our last home. It was great and got everything out of the kitchen. The hood was mounted higher than recommended, but we are both tall.

Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: modern eucalyptus kitchen

With the sink and the cooktop being on the same surface and not so far apart, you can get away without the faucet being a pot filler that you can use to fill pots directly on the cooktop imo. I don't think it has to stretch that far.

I don't know anyone that has a faucet that "stretches" to the cooktop. I did not do a pot filler, and we cook approx 4 nights a week. It's not a "have to have" kitchen detail.

fwiw, as I posted above, my island is about the same size as you are considering. I don't have that much space on either side of the range. We do not have a problem with the prep areas that we have - someone who mass produces or cooks large meals on a daily basis may think my counter area is too small, but I don't have problems creating meals for 10-15 people in my space. Even with two people cooking and prepping at the same time.

Here is a link that might be useful: so you can see space on island, either side of sink

That is good to know, because the faucet will not stretch that far, although it does have 19" of stretch.

Thank you Alsison. I dont think I will ever mass produce meals. I am not even sure I will take to cooking again. In high school, I went through a cooking phase. And in college, I baked bread. But since then, I havent had the time, and being single, it doesnt seem worth it sometimes. Still, I like the idea that everything is ready to go and is available for cooking. I know I will have family visiting often, and there will be other people interested in cooking or hanging out around the island.

BTW, that french kitchen is simply beautiful! If I could have two houses, one would have a french kitchen and the other a modern kitchen.

I meant to post earlier, in part because I commented on the other thread about the function for a cook and having the largest space for cleanup and not cooking. Every kitchen, even those built from scratch and without budget limitations (no one I know has one of those, but even if they did), have challenges and compromises.

I am a big function person and I worked very hard to squeeze every bit out of my existing space. I was thrilled at how much more I got out of the same space with some planning. Your space has that same issue but wonderful features mine does not. The architecture is entirely different and I would make different choices in your kitchen.

I like the direction you are going and would definitely center the cooktop in the island -- even if it meant using the large sink for prep and and putting in an outdoor beverage center for pool traffic. I'm not saying you need to go there, but that's how strongly I feel about not putting a cooktop on the end of an island. Safety is the trump card of function -- but this is also a function issue. I had a cooktop on an island with about 4-6" I think on the end -- opposite the fridge. There was NO landing space and barely room to set down a spoon (long handles) or a glass that wasn't at risk of being knocked over when you opened or closed the fridge. My kids were 2 and 5 when we bought that house and we didn't have a problem with them, but that and survival in general may have only been because the grill insert on the fridge side of the cooktop didn't get hot enough to cook anything and we covered it with a cutting board. I cooked for 4 years with 2 tilted coil burners, but no one got burned.

I got suckered into that kitchen because of a walk-in pantry -- that proved to be just as dysfuntional. And I left HATING that kitchen and nearly giving up cooking. If there is not a wall beside a cooktop, give yourself at least 9-12 inches so you have a place to set things down when cooking. That is even more important when you don't have counters behind the cooktop (I had a sink behind the cooktop with short spots on either side -- not ideal, but at least some space to land something). This isn't a pivot and plop spot. You gotta have some place to put hot things, so your island layout is even more important.

I had a 30" cooktop 2 houses ago and loved it, so I think that is fine. I think if you turn that sink so the length runs the width of the island instead of the length of it, you may be okay -- not sure what that dimension is.

I probably would have designed as palimpest has suggested -- with the cooktop on that back wall and you talls anchoring the long wall, but moving the fridge and centering the cooktop will do a lot for what you have. It will be better than my last two dysfunctional kitchens so I know I could cook there and be happier than those. In fact, with those views and what I have learned about maximizing use of space, I think I could be pretty...

BTW, that french kitchen is simply beautiful! If I could have two houses, one would have a french kitchen and the other a modern kitchen.

Thank you. I love my kitchen. It's actually English, but the F&B color is French Gray.

I've had a cooktop in a semi-island. Peninsula before. Wasn't bad. If moving it off island is not an option, I would at least move it over. And skip the smaller sink in island.

I almost brought up some sort of outdoor sink/fridge area, but didn't. Doesn't have to be elaborate, but would be nice when company comes over. Skip the smaller sink inside then.

Allison, I didnt realize that is YOUR kitchen! My gosh! It is beautiful. I thought it was a kitchen for a magazine spread, which I guess it is! You did a wonderful job.

I just feel I might use that sink because there is a long distance to big sink. But I do really need to think about it.