Wow. I'm sure that more knowledgable people on this forum will be able to give you better information, but I would start with a good professional inspection to get a list of all of the structural faults in the building. (I think your husband sounds over-optimistic about the house not falling down in his lifetime. Unless, of course, he's really really old.) Ask the inspector to discuss them with you and rank them in order of urgency. Then I'd talk to a contractor about a long-term plan. What needs doing yesterday, what can wait until next week, and so on. And then figure out how to pay for it!

I'm in western NY too (Rochester area) and I don't see how you can survive uninsulated in our winters. Your energy costs must be astronomical.

ITA w vjrnts. You need a knowledgeable person to help with priorities. We've got a lot of issues here too (though probably not as many) and hope to pay for the repairs out of cashflow, but that may not be realistic depending on how severe the experts think these problems are. We have a contractor/engineer coming next week for a look-see.

And just a sidenote, but my father who had this house for 20 years before us had an attitude similar to your husband -- this stuff can wait, it's no big deal, etc.

We have 10 exterior beams with serious dryrot as a result that was identified 10 years ago. Ten years ago a handyman could have fixed it. Not now. I had lunch with my dad just the other day and told him that we were looking for a structural engineer to look at it (thought we had one a year ago when we moved in but that's another story), he said "well, you know I tried to fix that before I moved out but you wouldn't let me. What I would do is...." All of these DIY jobs over the years are causing us a lot of problems. He installed some windows himself in one room, reframed and all and did nothing but pop them in and caulk around them. Now, I'm just a social scientist but that seems peculiar. Indeed, the wall is decaying. I don't know what lurks in other windows he did and I don't know how much time we have to fix them (the other windows get less exposure), but I don't intend to ask my dad for advice about it.

I think the house could fall down in my husband's lifetime, he's only 31. In fact, that was exactly what his friend told him when he said he wasn't going to fix the back wall. He gave him three years before it blew out.
I get very frustrated with both my husband and his father. Almost all of the windows his father installed are in incorrectly. The cold air leaks in all around the trim, some of them are seated wrong, and he put a large bay window in the living room and never put a roof on it. Now it's all rotten and needs to be replaced. When I mention windows to my husband, he says, "But my Dad replaced all those, they're not that old." I am making some headway with his opinion of his father's workmanship. (The man can build a deck like no other, but stay away from this house:>)
I also have to fight him falling into the same trap. If we don't have the money to fix it right, we shouldn't touch it until we do. No more quick fixes and patches and finding the cheap way out, the house just can't take it.
Thank you for the help. How do I contact a professional inspector?
As for our heating costs, don't ask. We have a forced air oil furnace, a pellet coal stove and a small propane heater in the bathroom. Plus, the majority of the upstairs is blocked off in the winter. The cost of heating is actually what has gotten my husband to come to terms with the fact that the house needs attention. When he lived here by himself he didn't care. Then I used to work so noone was here all day. Now we have a baby and I stay at home so heat is more of a priority. But, I agree that it's time to get a professional opinion on whether we should continue or give up. Thank you again.

Kat in your postion I wouldn't put another dime into the place until a structual engineer looked at it and told you whether it was worth saving or not.
If it's not take out whatever is salavgable put it into storage and then let the fire department at it. Then if you really want to stay on the property rebuild something you can live with comfortable and use the salavaged parts to enhance the place..orsell the salvage to help fund your new home.
Sometimes as much as you can love an old house it just isn't right or worth the pain to save.

How to find a structural engineer/inspector? Good question. You can ask a realtor in your area who they'd use. Or if there's a university near you with an architecture program, lots of university professors consult on the outside for extra money (I always laugh in movies when profs are shown living in giant, ivy-covered mansions; only if they were born rich!), and you might find someone there.

Personally, I'd stay away from the Yellow Pages. Anyone can put an ad there, and the construction biz is rife with incompetents and con artists.

Well, you certainly have a challenge in front of you.

I second the recommendation to get some professional expertise in there to help you evaluate your structure, but I would caution you to take the time to find a professional with experience in old houses, not a regular real estate transaction type inspector. The right person might also be a real estate inspector, but if you don't get someone with experience (and preferably affection for) old houses you will be over-loaded with things that need urgent fixing. Over-loaded to the point where burning it down will seem the best option.

If you can't find an inspector, at least find someone from your area who has worked on their own old house. Contact your historical society, or local museums, or even your local field office of the New York State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO). If you're stumped there I can help you as I live near main office in Albany. You really do need to get an old-house expert to do your inspection.

Now, I don't want to add to your husband's complacence, but yes, things will probably hold up for a while longer, but that only buys you some breathing room to make a plan, not to put off planning, IYKWIM?

By all means get the sill repaird and hole patched up. Get a sump pump set up for floods. Go slowly on digging around your foundation. Buy cheap paint and use it liberally indoors to cheer yourself up. Make sure your electrical service isn't about to burn you out. Think about whether you can safely add wood or pellet stoves for additional fairly cheap heat.

But then you really have to do the hard part and that is some heart-to-heart plain talk with your husband. I would begin with some thought and discussion about what realistically you can to do economically, and time and energy-wise. This is a lot more complicated for you because this started out as his house and he may have a lot of issues related to that. It will be harder for him to work that through than if you had bought the house together.

I have a good friend who married a man with an 1840-ish Greek Revival (gorgeous house with fantastic sunburst-pattern siding on the gable end) that he had grown up in and his father had done pretty much what you describe your FIL did. In addition to the beautiful GR features it also had sill problems, rotten window frames, holes in the slate, leaky basement, etc. What she did (when they had a baby) was demand that they move to a trailer which was set-up next to the house. She wanted at least some clean space and was concerned about the lead paint issue when the child was young. Well, that baby is graduating from high school tomorrow, the GR house isn't fixed up any better and my friend decamped for her own apartment a couple of years ago and her husband is still living in the trailer. I'm telling you this cautionary tale not to discourage you, but to urge you to get a realistic view of what you and your husband have to work out, or you'll be stuck in limbo for years.

If your husband is more complacent than you, can you get the cash together to pay someone else to do the work, even if it takes a long time to do it? My friend and her husband could have done that, but always put it off until he could do it, which he never got around to doing. It would have been better to hire workers and get it done.

I have a bit of this problem, too, as my husband is less keen than I am on working on the house, and I am really picky about the standards. I've learned it's better, sometimes, to pay workers to do the parts I can't do, rather depend on him to do them. Old house repair can be very hard on a marriage.... but a happy marriage is 'way more important than the house!

While you're hunting for the right professional to help you make a plan, begin by having some "real talk" with your husband about what he wants and is willing to do. And read some books on old house care that include outlines of how to assess a structure. You can make the assessment yourself, if you are a careful observer. If you need some suggestions about which books to read I could make some recommendations ....

If I were you, I'd prioritize this way: Marriage first; clean and cheerful-looking (even if somewhat unsound structurally) house; careful assessment of structural needs by person with experience in old houses; make plans for slowly taking care of structural problems - as slowly as finances and first priority dictate; try not to stress when you read about other people's renos that seem to sail along (and come to an early conclusion); you don't know about what compromises they made or what unseen costs were paid. Keep focussed on your marriage, your economic situation and what you need to feel like progress is happening. Those are the things you can control.

Also take time to appreciate that you are lucky (well, I know some days it doesn't feel that way) enough to live in building with the authentic old features some people pay tons of money to imitate. For instance enjoy every post where people are discussing scarifying their too-new looking old floors. What a hoot! Just thinking about that makes vacuuming up the scurf in the cracks in my old wide-board floors a thrill.

Good luck!
Molly~

PS: The other thing to appreciate about your house is that since it was your husband's childhood home you are probably not doing this work with an eye to resale, as many people are. That gives you some breathing room, to take your time and pace things so you don't add more stress than necessary. All houses, even old ones, are meant to be lived in, so be sure to make space for your *life*. Any house that's been here for 160+ years will stand up a bit longer while you squeeze in a little personal life between structural repairs!

KAt,

This may veer into the personal, but are your in-laws still alive? If so then changes your husband makes may be more complicated, especially if you're tearing out stuff that they particularly liked, were proud of, or even scrimped and saved to do .....

If it's your house now, perhaps the conversation about what to do also has to happen with your in-laws. Not to complain about the work, or quality of it, but to work through the psychic or emotional ownership issues that may be lingering.

After my MIL died, my SIL bought her house from the estate. She told me recently she could hardly bear to pull out picture hooks for a long time. Then she launched into a major reno, but afterward was so terrified her sibs wouldn't approve of what she did she sort of withdrew and didn't want anyone to see what she'd done. On Mother's Day this year we drove a long distance to visit my MIL's grave, and visit my SIL, who was panicked at first. But we assured her we loved what she had done (we truly did) and felt great about it. That has healed a rift between my DH and his SIL. And it illustrates how complicated working on old family houses is. You may have some similar issues at play in your situation.
It would be a hard burden to have all the other stuff repairing an old house entails and still have your in-laws expectations and concerns to drag you down.

If this is the case, then I'd start with that issue.
Molly~

My husbands parents are both alive, but they separated in 1994or 1995. His brother and his family lived in it until 1999, when they decided it was too big. His father needed to sell it because he was moving so my husband bought it more as a favor than anything. It's just under 2,000 square feet and it was just him and his dog. (who is just around 75 pounds) His mother could care less what we do to the house, it's not hers anymore. His father is a bit different. All he does is say how much he hated the house and he should have let it burn in 1980, but he owned it for 22 years. He gets a little sensitive when I talk about redoing things he's done. Or, when I make cracks about chainsawing out a supporting wall. My husband is sensitive about his father, yet acts like he doesn't really care if we stay here or not. But, he built a huge garage next to the house, so I guess we're staying.
I would appreciate suggestions on reading material for assessing the structure myself along with a professional. I will look into both real estate and historical opinions. I did touch on the subject yesterday with my husband and was immediately shut down. I will just keep plugging.
I also applied for funds through our community something-or-other office. My husband's cousin received some funding for his roof and other repairs. I've got my fingers crossed that we can get somewhere with that before we need to address the roof ourselves, which will be next year. It's not leaking yet, but it looks terrible in spots.
Thanks again everyone for the advice, it's nice to have someone to talk to!!

Molly -- you are a very wise woman.

We could dedicate a thread to owning family houses. It is a whole other critter.

Kat -- I'm not sure where you are and I never suspected that my dad might have a whole other family, but I laughed out loud at some of the stuff you wrote about your FIL. It is an exact description of my father. You've got to laugh or go crazy.

Kat,

Here's the first place (though not necessarily the most on point) I'd go. It's one of a series of technical bulletins put out by the National Park Service to help owners/conservators of old buildings understand and make appropriate repairs to their structures. The information ranges from what would be useful for any old house to what would be necessary for important historiccal sturctures.

I have always found the bulletins to be extremely useful, easy to understand and not pushing one "brand" of material over another. There is a whole series which you can access by scrolling down to bottom of the page and clicking on Preservation Bulletins, which will in turn bring up a page with an index.

The one I'm linking to here is on assessing old buildings; not quite the thing I'm going to rustle up for you about inspecting old houses, but those refs. are in books which I'll have to dig out of my shelves. Something I'll do next.

Meanwhile here's a nice (free!) piece of advice our tax dollars have paid for, so enjoy!

Molly

Here is a link that might be useful: NPS PReservation Bulletin on Assessing Historic Structures

Dear Kat,

Well, I haven't turned up all the ones I was searching for, but here are three to begin with (with notes and suggestions for locating):

1) KIRK, JOHN T.. THE IMPECUNIOUS HOUSE RESTORER PERSONAL VISION & HISTORIC ACCURACY. NEW YORK: ALFRED A. KNOPF, 1984

This is now out of print (though a quick check on Addall booksearch turned up dozens of copies priced from $12-50.) It contains one of the most useful narratives about checking out a house. It's written in a modest unassuming, no BS style, by a man who knows what he's talking about and, more importantly, does it (mostly) by himself. He's not cheaping out, nor tarting up the houses he works on, and as the title indicates he's budget conscious. Also it's a very pleasant book to read, and does not leave one feeling completely inadequate in the skills, enthusiasm or finance dept.

2) George Nash, RENOVATING OLD HOUSES; Taunton Press 2003. This is, I believe, currently in print and can be ordered directly from the publisher (see any Fine Homebuilding Magazine for address and phone, if you can't get ref. by Googling). Like all Taunton books it has its share of high-end projects, but in between them the subject is well presented, and full of info about how to handle repairs and understand what's really a BIG problem and what, while it looks bad, is not too scary. It's well worth the $32 it costs.

3) Heritage Preservation & National Park Service; CARING FOR YOUR HISTORIC HOUSE, Abrams 1998. This is a much expanded and better illustrated, version of the Preservation Bulletins series. It breaks each of the individual house systems or components out and provides good assessment and evaluation criteria. It may be a tad more for "fancier" historic projects than yours (or mine) is likely to be, but very useful nonetheless. It costs about $36, since it's 7 or 8 years old, you could try to find it online (alibris, addall, etc.) used, for less. This is one I would get your library to order from interlibray loan service for you. (If you don't know about interlibray loan - or you live in a pokey area like I do - it may take some energy to get them to process your request. But in the end, almost any book can be delivered to your library for borrowing. Each library in NY gets a certain number of free interlibrary loan coupons, and many small ones never use them up at all, so don't be shy, you've already paid your taxes for this benefit, so it makes sense to use it, if only to preview what you might wish to purchase for your own library.)

Now, I'm not really satisfied with this short list, as it's really only the books that came easily to hand in my search just now. There is a better book on the assessment, but I can't put my finger on it. (When have you more than 3,000 books, like I do, I find they take on a life of their own and sometimes play hard to get.....) Eventually I'll run it to ground. These will get you started, though.

The other really good resource is a set of the now out of print Old House Journal back numbers from the early years. These are far better than the current mag of the same name which has gotten "glossy shelter magazined-ized" to keep up with competition, and now has only a fraction of the depth and good information that it once had. Many years ago, I purchased the whole set, at a price that made me hesitate at the time, though I am always grateful I did. If you have an active historic preservation organization or museum within reach, they may have a set of the back issues that you can peruse.

Of course, the internet has made searching easier, though produces tons of twaddle, as well. I also read Fine Homebuilding, though there again, it has veered a bit away from good trades info and more towards pleasing consumers. But I suppose that's what pays the bills!

If you can scare up the first two books, and borrow the third, you'll have a whole summer full of info to digest. I'll keep looking for the other book with good data on house assessment which I can't quite locate today.

Happy reading: a comfortable chair in the shade, cool glass of lemonade, thoughtful - while reclining - consideration of the project at hand, all these things are clearly *working on the house*. Good enough, at least for now.

Molly~

Thank you Molly for your wisdom, and the care with which it is delivered. Not that I don't appreciate the bare bones facts, I know that too much of a sunny-side-up attitude won't work in this situation. But, we are stuck here for a little while, so at least I have some constructive things to do! I have to go to the library and drop some books off for their book sale, I will look for the titles you mentioned.
As for my FIL, it's nice to know that he's not the only one out there. I would go crazy if I couldn't laugh at him, and my own family. When he gets a little whimsical about things in the house that I'm undoing, I just tell him he can buy it back any time he wants and that usually ends the conversation.
My husband and his friend did get the sill changed this past weekend, and took out an old rotten door that used to lead to the cellar. The back of the house was sided with t1-11, which now has to come off because the FIL put plastic underneath it and that's part of what's causing the rot. So, the husband is going to do that after his other friend comes and digs a trench, hopefully without knocking in the cellar wall. It's braced up just in case!!
Thank you again everyone for all the information. I now have a plan on how to come up with a plan!! I will update when something else exciting comes up.

This has been a most interesting conversation, and I hope that you do keep us updated.

On the DH front, now that he's doing something constructive, maybe a little positive feedback will keep his interest level up, and reduce his resistance to undoing anything his father did.