Watch them as much as you feel you need to. I wanted to watch the work we had done more but felt uneasy. But if you can do it I would. There seems to be alot of mistakes anymore. You could have the good workers or the not so good workers. I heard about tile being put in a kitchen for a backsplash and the workers ruined the new corian countertop (by not protecting it) and the Corian had to be all resanded to make look new again. Just stuff like this can happen.

I totally get it, lightlystarched -- I want to watch, too, but our installer is such a supreme chatter (and he won't work while he's talking, ad nauseam, only about himself and how smart he is which means I can't tell him how smart I am!) that I'm keeping my kitchen visits to a minimum. Luckily I have a puppy so I have to walk past it pretty frequently (to take the puppy outside).

However, when it's countertop time I have already told the fabricator to expect me NON-STOP (watching them template in the kitchen) and that I don't want the counters cut until I'm in their shop watching (where they lay the template). She's great and said "absolutely -- many of our customers like to do the same thing."

I guess I'm not worried about mistakes with the cabinetry -- our cabinetmaker visits a lot (to check on things) and I know he's so fastidious he wouldn't let them job be completed until both he and I are happy. But it sure is fun to watch this vision come to fruition!

I would watch as much as you can. As long as you are out of their way and discuss concerns with the contractor (not the workers) wherever possible, you should be fine. Drinks and snacks don't hurt either. We once had a room addition done and instead of letting us know that a tree would be in the way of the corner of the roof, the workers framed the roof to go around the tree. One of the reasons why we have DIY'd most of our projects since then.

Oh, qs777, how annoying that would be. I just wish anyone with any question would ASK ME. I have an opinion on everything. I even asked the electrician to walk me through the space and tell me the proposed location of all switches, lights, outlets, etc. He said okay and then proceeded to put them in not-ideal places. I have one wall switch that is a foot away from the door jamb. Why???? If there is a good reason for something, tell me. I'm a reasonable person - all I ask is to be consulted.

BTW - so far the counters look great. I can understand now why this is an all day 3-man job.

Some of the workers were my new best friends when they left. I didn't give them a moments peace. I made them tell me all about what they were doing step by step. They actually enjoyed it - I think. The electricians and cabinet installer especially needed detailed supervision on placement. Workers who will only be there for a few hours and don't see the big picture need LOTs of supervision.

For what we pay them, they can put up with it. I tried to learn enough ahead about their professions to ask half intelligent questions.

The kind who can't work when they talk is a problem, as is the kind who stick in earphones.

You know the old saying "It's $50 an hour, $75 an hour if you watch, and $100 an hour if you help". :-)

I try not to hover too much (and honestly, I am not home much while work is being done anyway). But I definitely walk things through every single night, making a note of things that are not to my liking, measuring to check placements etc. My builder has been fabulous about fixing these small things, like switch placements, door placements, even some extra framing, blocking etc. He even fixed the too-high deck guardrail in the beginning of the project. I discuss these items with him next morning, and he is quick to tell me that most things are very easy to change (especially before drywall went up).

This works well if you have a single crew that is doing most of the work, or if the responsible trades will be back on-site at some point. Not so good if you have to call the trade back in, I guess.

Better to be on the annoying side I think. I was pretty hands-on as far as wanting to know what was going on at any given time.

With 20-20 hindsight, I would be even more hands-on doing this again. Even the best contractors will shoot first and ask if it's okay later, if you know what I mean. They do want to get done as soon as they can, for the most part. So if you're not ready with something, they will forge ahead without you!

They also tend to cut corners whenever, wherever possible if it isn't something you've specified to the nth. But when you've never remodeled before, you don't know all the things you know afterwards. So if you want to be a nervous nelly, go right ahead.

IMO, you are paying them for their expertise. No need to hover. No problem with checking things at day end and if something isn't right, making it known the next day. But no need to watch over them every hour of the day

Lightlystarched, I had to remind our electrician, when he wanted to put a switch smack in the middle of a wall, that most women do not think of electrical outlets as decorative accents! We were around the house most of the time and I don't think we got in the way of progress. Being there and asking questions if things didn't look right saved a lot of grief down the road.

I supervise everything and have to have 100% say from materials to the install but of course we are DIY, so I am the buyer, GC and laborer along with my husband (he usually doesn't buy as I'm the shopper and really picky) . I also make sure to feed my husband - can't have him passing out on me - need him to finish the rest of the house.

I sort of would pop downstairs every few hours to check in and see what was happening. Or if i'd hear any weird chatter I'd peek in. I definitely let them know on day 1 that I was the type of person who wanted to know what was happening, who wanted to be keep in the loop and who actually enjoyed it. They thanked me and explained that they sometimes do jobs and they don't see the homeowner the entire time - they just go on a system of notes left by each party - and they have homeowners who are more of the ostrich type and they definitely don't want to know anything about what's happening, just want to only only hear and see the happy stuff and expect any issues to be dealt with behind the scenes. Then they have homeowners who want to know what's happening.

There were so many times during our renovation where things could have been done many different ways and I was glad I was there to dictate exactly how I wanted something done.

Lightlystarched, I had to remind our electrician, when he wanted to put a switch smack in the middle of a wall, that most women do not think of electrical outlets as decorative accents! We were around the house most of the time and I don't think we got in the way of progress. Being there and asking questions if things didn't look right saved a lot of grief down the road.

When we had an addition put on last summer, I tried either to be out of the house or away from the work almost all of the time for their sake and mine. HOWEVER, Every night when they went home I checked. We had a good contractor in general but had I not checked ... I would not have been able to have a rug infront of the front door because it was not raised for the new floor as it was supposed to be, I would have had woodwork I hated because there was a miscommunication that was really my fault, the trim/shoe mold under the kitchen cabinets would have ended an inch shy of the cabinet base and been visible from a distance (why I never did understand) and had my DH not been nibbing around when the men came to do gutters and downspouts there would have been one downspout missing because there was a big board covering up that area and the sub did not see it etc etc

So watch from a distance I think.

I do most of my remodels and fixes DIY but sometimes I do hire out.
I am not a perfectionist but neither are contractors!

I have always found that supervised jobs turn out better than unsupervised ones. I also like to stick around to see how things are done so that i can learn.

There was a thread on the kitchen forum about an island top being installed 180 deg out. These kind of things are best avoided by supervision. No amount of drawings, phone calls, meetings, talking can avoid this kind of human error. The actual guys who do the installation are not the KD, not the GC, not the DH. So I live to be there when the actual workers are placing the 200 lb countertop!

My adage is "You get what you STAY for", not you get what you pay for :)

Everything turned out (mostly) perfect today. The sink is perfect. There was a small overlap of the counter onto the door moulding but the guys were able to put a slight taper into that side and it is unnoticeable.

They only forgot to caulk behind the whole top. I think they thought I was doing a b/s immediately. I'm not, so I need to call them back to do that.

Happy day =)

I didn't supervise at all - or hover - since I was at work during the day. I inspected everything every night when I got home though. Then I'd call the GC in the morning on my way to work if I had any questions - or I'd leave notes for the carpenter if it was something more straightforward. I figured better to be safe than sorry - and ask questions if something didn't seem quite right. It worked well. I think it would have driven me crazy to be home while the work was going on.

I will be home every day. I work at home. Unfortunately, my office is immediately below the kitchen. I've made arrangements with my neighbor to work there on particularly noisy days - demo, drywall, cabinet install, but I plan to be upstairs checking every couple of hours. On the one hand, I'm not necessarily thrilled with this. It will suck up work time. I also know that it will be up to me to make decisions simply because I'm here on site, not DH. I don't do decisions well. However, I am happy that I'll be here should any problems arise. I've put DH on notice that he is to have his cell phone on his person and turned on at all times during this project. We'll see how that goes.

I plan on supervising very closely. Close supervision will be discussed/agreed upon before the contracts are signed. I also plan to take photos DURING so that I have a record of where pipes, conduit, framing, etc. are located. I think the idea of 'during photos' will lessen any feeling of being criticized, but, altho now retired, I supervised and was supervised while I worked for money. So what?
My kitchen, my bucks, my ideas---clear communication.
I think if you talk to people after their renos, most of the sorriest are those who didn't have the guts/time/stamina/confidence/whatever to supervise. So call me b-----, I don't care. It's been said before. We'll all be happier if it's done right the first time and doesn't have to be done over because I was too shy or afraid of ? to watch and enjoy. fortunately, I hope I will have the time to supervise. If a worker doesn't want to be watched, he won't be on my job! Go elsewhere. Arent you proud of your work, worker? What are you hiding?

Actually, altho I sounded pretty severe in my prev post, I recently finished my 2nd bath reno. My guy was so perfect, so fastidious, had done such wonderful work for us in the past, and had superb references from people I knew well...that when I started to watch, it was so boring, I just left..and did no supervision.....

Until the tile guy, usually very competent, showed up to do my 1 inch square glass mosaic tiles. He came to my job just 11 days after hernia surgery and was limited in stretching, etc. The tiles were poorly aligned, and after reading all the horror stories on the bath forum and viewing the poor work of these difficult tiles, and hearing tales being told of 'wait til it's grouted, you will like' NOT, I stepped right in while the mastic was still wet, and the tiles could be moved and asked, in my nicest voice, that they be properly aligned, fixed,blah.
Tile guy, not being shy, defended the improperly aligned work. Blamed it on the tile. I, in my hands, showed him that the tiles were perfect, the job, so far, was unacceptable, and would he please be so kind as to just move these three rows? Oh, a bit more.. Do we need a yardstick? Let's do it while it's still wet..You always do such beautiful work-I love your work in my othr bath, etc
Of course he mumbled, muttered, gave me dirty looks.
And then the boss,gc type, showed up and I told him and showed him the messy work. It was all fixed by the next day.
I learned all of that on the bath forum, seeing so many ruined glass tiles by incompetent tilers..and by GRADUALLY learning that the homeowners (usually female) lacked the whatever to confront the tiler and fix the problem. As I reflect today, I think of these poor women who took all of the time to photo the poor work, post the photos on this site and ask our gw friends whether they agreed that the job stank, and what to do now, after grouting and curing. All that time, effort, to complain, but not enough gumption to get the job done right in the first place.
In what other business setting would this occur? Job termination would rightly follow. As a feminist, I see this as an environment where women (as the employer)are taken advantage of, maligned, judgment trashed. We must stand up against shoddy workmanship, and the first step in the process is supervision.
The choice is ours. Confrontation, admittedly uncomfortable, or be victimized...and live with crappy work. And what, we have some perverse satisfaction that we are nice guys? they like us? We gotta, gotta, gotta, get unsick.
Whew. off soapbox. Bev

Our GC (he's more like our teacher at this early stage of planning) was just telling us that the subs are working for us, not for him, and how it important it is for us to inspect everything at every stage to make sure it's done to our liking. And NOT to give the final payment until we're completely happy with the job.
It seems clear from everyone's comments here that there's a line between being annoying and being professional and that overseeing the job can be done well or poorly.
That said, I hate conflict in general, and I hope when the time comes I'm able to stick up for what I need! Thanks for saying all that Bev.
Nancy

I hope when the time comes I'm able to stick up for what I need

this is what I do when I need to psych myself up for conflict.

It's not what *I* need.

it's what the *job* needs.

The bathroom needs to have straight tiles

The sink needs to be positioned X way

The grout needs to be a certain color

The rough edges need to be fixed.

It's not you. It's the job. It's the kitchen. It's reality. That's why it needs to be right.

(sometimes I tell people who work for me, "tell them 'my boss won't accept it.'" I tell my DH: "say to the contractor, 'don't make me show that to my wife and tell her it's acceptable.'" If you have to find someone to blame it on, well then, do.)

The male worker/female customer "thing" reared it's ugly head once for me too - but I'm not shy. Once I established the "pecking order" things went more smoothly that day.

Talley Sue, So well said. Depersonalize it. It IS what the job needs, what the kitchen needs. The job is the goal. The person is just the messenger. Great technique-can be used for every conflict situation.Thx for the tip. B