There is no right answer but if it makes you feel better about your choice of a range I will say I love having a range under my vent hood when I broil, especially fish.

The way I cook, I value counter space more than the wall oven at eye level. In my kitchen, I could not make it happen. So I have a range and my second oven is an undercounter speed oven which doubles as MW.

If I had a bigger kitchen with more wall space, I would have put in the wall oven. In my kitchen, only 2 walls can have cabinets and appliances. The others are completely open. You HAVE to make compromises...

If you can afford to give up the counter space, I'd do it despite the added cost. The added cost is probably incremental giving what you're spending on your kitchen and if you're always going to miss it, then you'll probably regret not just spending the incremental extra money at the time. If it will make you truly happy w/ your kitchen, then now is the time to spend the $ and do it!

If you really want the eye-level wall oven, and have 24'' of counter to spare, why not? You can economize on stuff that is easy to upgrade later. A used or scratch-dent or more basic range, a similar refrigerator, a less expensive faucet, etc. Better to scrimp there, than on stuff that is hard to upgrade later - cabinets, floors, etc.

can you post your layout?

thanks, everyone.

joy... sorry, no i don't have a layout to post. it's basically an L-shape with a line. very small, though. the range is in the line part.

but, i did find some interesting counter alternatives that got me thinking.... (do you ever STOP revising the layout?!)

from apartment therapy (how sturdy is this i wonder):
{{!gwi}}

from precision cabinets and trim:

Get the wall oven...in fact, think about keeping the range and still getting the wall oven. That's going to be my one appliance splurge! I'm so tired of pulling all the main course dishes out of the 350 oven, to crank it up to 425 for biscuits or cornbread muffins. Two ovens would be wonderful! :)

We only have a wall oven now...and I wish we had one under the cooktop, for broiling and anything else that splatters or gets really hot. The ventilation is a good point, too.

I'd save a little bit on other items and get the layout you really want. Congrats on your new kitchen!

Are you talking about having a range AND a second small oven? Or do you mean a cooktop and one small oven?

Why do you want that oven? For the look? Oven function? Ergonomics?

I need two ovens myself. That's one of the major priorities for the new kitchen. I agree to cut back where you can upgrade later, as mentioned. Giving up the extra space is a huge tradeoff. Before we decided to move some rooms around in our house to get a bigger kitchen, my plan was to put two ovens undercounter to get more counterspace where I was lacking it.

Didn't you steal a layout from Buehl that you can post?

breezy... "steal" is a pretty harsh word. ;)

okay, i suppose i could... but don't really want to start that up, if that's okay. :(

i meant range + small oven because really the only time we ever use the big oven is Thanksgiving and Christmas. We use a large toaster oven mostly all the time, and the results are alright. but it's pretty ugly!

i want the counter-level so we don't have to bend, so it's ergonomics too.

i guess i think if we redo this kitchen only to go back to using the toaster oven, it's kind of a waste!

btw, we are not updating the fridge or dishwasher yet.

thing is, it's not really a matter of saving for it either. there's a price point (somewhere) which seems ridiculous because i am a mediocre cook! i mean a La Canche would just be silly for me, even though they are beautiful. know what i mean?

today we went to the Sears outlet to look at a Bosch wall oven. it was a really good deal on a floor model. but i couldn't bring myself to do it. i've only had builder grade my whole life.

my friends and family always tease me about this remodel because i am such a bad cook! (i must have self-esteem issues.) but the kitchen is so gross, i can't stand it anymore. we've been here 3 years now.

this sounded like therapy.... anyway, if anyone got this far, thanks for listening. :)

How much counter space do you give up to the toaster oven? I'm thinking at least 24", but I don't own one so I really don't know. I'd look at this as a trade if you need logic to get you to where you want to go.

I know where you are coming from when you talk about price point. I know I am buying appliances that are a little out of my range of cooking expertise, and I don't cook a lot right now. But I like to cook when I can and if I don't have the tools, I certainly can't use them. I have never had really good appliances, never new appliances--just what someone else chose for the space before I got there. This time, the purchases are for me and where I want to go.

Please don't let the teasing be part of the decision process. I get it, been the object of it, but honestly it doesn't matter in the end. This is your kitchen, let it be what you want it to be.

I agree with Missstella. If you are unhappy with your kitchen, how do you expect to cook well? You need a kitchen that inspires you. If you have the space, I'd get the oven. I love my wall ovens. I'm getting older and look at it as a longterm investment for my back. I replaced the 23 yr old dinosaur and the performance is like night and day. It may not be all your cooking, but your appliances. I never question how people spend the money they earn.

hi missstella and stacieann,

thanks so much for reading my message and your kind, supportive words. it made a big difference and helped me a lot.

i'm going to go ahead and add the oven. it IS a compromise losing the counterspace, but i think it will make the kitchen better for us.

thanks to everyone who posted. oh and breezygirl, i hope you know i was just teasing about the "steal" thing; i thought it was funny. :)

I'm so glad you're going for it! I've always had pretty much builder-grade appliances (or maybe one step above). We probably won't do our reno for a year or 2 since I've lost my job, but when we do, I'm getting my 36" induction cooktop and 2 ovens! Cooking is frequently trial and error to try a recipe and change it to your tastes. A nice kitchen with good appliances will make that process much more enjoyable. I look forward to seeing your new kitchen progress!

Hi there. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "steal" about the plan, but that's about what you said. And it's not as if plans around here are proprietary. We are sharing them with the world here so it doesn't matter if you used someone else's layout. Seeing what space you are working with might yield another suggestion for you, that's why I asked if you could post it.

I asked the other questions to get you to answer them for yourself. I know how having to explain yourself to someone else can make it more clear for yourself. It IS like therapy! These kind of decisions can be so hard. As you know, only you can ultimately make this decision as YOU are the one cooking in the space. Ggod luck!