we had ceramic tiles installed in a bathroom in our last house and i was sorry i made that choice. the grout really was a big issue and it got old real fast. i'm not into granite either (really over that!) so doing a lot of marble. obviously not a budget option but if you like it you might want to look around for some remnants. if not, i'd wait and do it at a later time. jmo, but unless you really love the ceramic i'd skip it. good luck!

I am not a granite girl either.

Epoxy grout was recommended to us as a better alternative to regular grout. "Better" is subject to debate. Tilemen hate it, but it does wear like steel, supposedly. It is more expensive and more difficult to use. For our 95 square feet, the epoxy additive ran less than $100 for the whole job. I think I found the price of $1.40 more per square foot as the upcharge for installation of epoxy grout.

There is absolutely no need whatsoever for epoxy grout on backspashes, by the way. I am not a tile man, that is just my personal opinion.

Regular grouts should work just fine if you maintain a sealing program and know how to take care of tile and grout. I never knew about resealing my grouted tiles until the past year. I never knew to not use bleach or strong cleansers on grouted tile - takes the sealant right off from what I have been learning.

If I got something wrong, I am sure someone will pipe up. Those are just some of the things I've picked up to this point.

Our kitchen project definitely took a turn for the worse with the installation disaster that was our tile project. The soapstone installation was cheaper, simpler, and cleaner in every way.

Some of the hidden costs of our tile project - - epoxy grout dripped on the INSIDE of our brand new Miele dishwasher, epoxy grout on the outside of the Viking wall oven, dumping of grout waste in our outside utility sink to the point where we expect we will have to replace the sink, and a tile job that stinks by almost every measure.

Get a quality installer and maintain direct control of the project if you do use tile.

For ceramic tile, you want to use *large format* (at least 12x12, or even larger) *floor* tile (not wall) and epoxy grout with very thin, and preferably dark, grout lines. It'll hold up much better that way.

Another budget-friendly option is Ikea butcher block. Yes, it has its pros and cons, and it's not for everyone, but if you like the look it's very reasonably priced.

Thanks guys!

I did think about the larger tiles, and that the darker grout would be better. Hadn't heard about the special grout though.

I did look at Ikea, they have some other kinds too that are reasonable. I figure for the straight stretches something like those would work just fine also.

Nice to know there are a few options. Thanks!

Just wanted to mention that I don't think you'll want an (uneven) tile surface on your office desk.

Hi, I'm a fairly new, mostly lurker here on KF, but wanted to pass on what a friend/KD once told me about tile countertops: he said he'd never been asked to replace a tile countertop with another tile countertop.

We lived with tile countertops in a rental property many years back, and disliked it for all the reasons mentioned above.

If I was having to make the countertop choice based on budget, I'd look at some of the really nice laminates, especially for areas such as laundry, desks, etc.

I really liked my 12x12 ceramic tile countertops in my kitchen I am tearing out except for the grout lines. Tile will not stain, pretty darn difficult to crack one, don't have to worry much about chipping or scratching.

But, they were white grout lines - dumb choice to begin with. Even tho I did seal, and attempt to re-seal - it must have been an inferior sealer because it just did not work. So, I gave up on the sealer and actually just, ummm, bleached the grout once in a while - only needed to do it in a few high-use areas anyway. And using 12x12 tiles keeps the amount of grout lines to a minimum.

I'm replacing the tile with soapstone, but I did briefly consider doing a 12x12 grey tile with grey grout. I've seen it done on the diagonal in that color in a kitchen and it is very pretty. You can really dress it up with accent tile too.

Gosh thank you all. So glad to hear I have options. Sometimes I feel like it is go granite or go away. :-)

I will be sure and post some pictures later. Maybe another month or so.... I hope :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Our Home Page

Search for posts by Bill Vincent and you'll see some of his beautiful tile counter work (he's a tile man). I can warmly recommend using an epoxy grout -- I used it in my bathroom and the stuff is indestructible and doesn't ever stain, which is so different even from sealed regular grout. Very low maintenance. If you can find some very flat rectified tile you like, you can do really tiny 1/16th grout lines and avoid the bumpiness that can be one annoyance about tile counters.

Don't know how handy you are, but faced with the same decision and also not being a granite fan, I made my own countertops out of copper for less than $20/sf. You can do the same with zinc etc. For less work and an equally gorgeous look, I'd go for the IKEA or Lumber Liquidators butcher block.

Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: DIY Copper Countertops

The house we bought several years ago has tile countertops, and I am waiting for the day I can put a sledgehammer through them and replace with a solid surface! Can't stand the dirty grout all of the time; it is impossible to keep clean, food gets stuck in it, and I scrub it constantly. Plus rolling out cookie and pie dough is impossible because it gets grid lines all over the back. I would rather have just about anything else right now than the tile!

It might not be so bad in an area not used as much as a kitchen or bathroom, but I know I'll never have a tile countertop in my kitchen again.

"I would never use floor tiles on a counter. Not only are they more likely to crack if something shifts, they look like floors on the counters."

They are not going to crack on a counter unless you walk on it.

There are plenty of larger format wall tiles also available.

Even thin grout lines catch debris, and on a counter are a pain to keep clean.

I have a ceramic tile countertop now, and I don't mind it at all. Have had it for about 8 years. I am the one who is actually considering granite tile counters. My grout is light gray and I would go darker if I did it again, but haven't found it terribly difficult to keep clean. If I get a bad stain I use my grout brush and some comet and it comes right off. My grout has never been sealed either. It is very economical, looks good, and I really like not having to worry about setting hot pans on the counter. We have had cans fall out of the cupboard on it as well, and haven't had one crack.

Here's my countertops gallery. Along with the granite tile, there are also several ceramic tile countertops, as well:

Here is a link that might be useful: My website's Countertops Gallery

pillog-any pictures of your tile counters?

I had black tile with dark grout in a rental I lived in and I loved it! It was a bit harder to clean the grout vs a smooth surface but it was really different and pretty.

Awesome! Thank you all! I so appreciate all the feedback. Lots to consider, thank you for all the input.

Tiles don't usually crack from things falling on them. The big ones can crack when the house settles and during otherwise unexciting earthquakes.

I've never had a problem with grout either. It's cement. It's possible to stain it. But it takes work. Or a bad installation. I have never gotten food stuck in grout lines, and have always had tile (as everyone did where I live), though I did have trouble cleaning the pits in the marble counter when I lived abroad.

Riverspots, Here's a preview:

Oh my goodness Pillog - I've been waiting, waiting, waiting. Beautiful. Nothing can compare.

plllog, I'm stunned looking at your countertops and backsplash. How many different patterns and designs are you using? Absolutely fabulous!! That's now what I want to do a variation on. Was thinking of 12x12's but hoped to come up with something different and fun. Resale? Who cares? And as far as I'm concerned, that would sell the house.

Rosie, Sugar Hill, GA

Thanks, Prill! I'm glad you found the preview because I know you've been waiting. I don't want to be hijacking the thread but I thought it might be useful to Gopintos and others to see the progress since R. asked.

Rosie, thanks so much! How many patterns and designs is a good question! The order took 16 pages and in this picture you can't really see the window casings, gumdrops (garden window), flowers (outdoor), etc. They're grouting now. I will tell you that the tile cost more than stone would have, and the expert tile setters who worked with me, cutting one piece at a time to fill the angles so I could see the flow, don't come cheap. But the really important part is that this is handmade but extremely high quality tile. It doesn't break, or shatter, though the large pieces do come out of true because they shrink funny sometimes when they're drying (as they're being made). The grout lines are therefore wobbly. That's part of the look of handmade tiles, and not for people who want things to line up just so. Because I have such quality experts they were able to set them closer than they expect to be able to do with handmade. If you want to discuss custom tiling more we can start another thread about it.

To the topic at hand, my point about the grout lines is that where they're a little wider in spots they're even less likely to catch food. Setting countertop tiles closer together than 1/8" is not a good idea for that reason. Closer than 1/16" and they can't even get the grout in properly.

But when I say cleaning the grout is easy, I meant for people who clean. When I make these statements I forget that there are people who just want it to look clean and want counters and floors where the dirt doesn't show. I got a stark white floor (though with dark green grout to set it off) because I like to be able to see the dirt to make spot cleaning easier so I don't have to haul out the mop just when I dribble a little on an otherwise clean floor. I keep a sponge for spot cleaning floors. But for that one has to be able to see the spots!

Quite the tease, pillog! On an informative note-how did you find your expert tile setters? We've all seen plenty of not-so-great backsplashes done by "professionals". I would think doing a countertop well would be even harder.

Riverspots, On that, I wish I could give advice. I got a referral when I bought the house, for some small bits of tiling. I talked to the tilesetters, and worked with them on the placement for the travertine. I saw his portfolio. I knew he was the guy. So I told my contractor that I was perfectly happy with his subs but I wanted my tile setter. When he saw what I wanted just for the floor he agreed that it was beyond his guys' abilities. BUT, his guys did my friends' kitchen backsplash and it's a perfectly workmanlike job.

As I've said before, tiled counters have always been the norm here up until the big stone boom. They know how to do counters. I've learned that in parts of the country, formica with no backsplash but the 4" upturn was the norm for a generation or more. (My folks have that in their breakfast room, but tile in the kitchen.) In those kinds of places, finding someone who knows what he's doing might be harder. But I can't see how a kitchen counter could really be any harder than a shower. Most aren't tapered to the sink anymore. They used to do smaller tiles so that they could be sloped for the water to roll into the sink. Like a shower pan. Other than knowing how to handle the v-cap, how different could it be? Even in the land of Formica there must be experienced, quality tile setters. It's a craft, but it's not all that arcane.

I'm in formica land so no personal experience beyond a friend in Seattle and that was 20 yrs ago. I would think, though, that a counter not only had to look flat but had to be flat or any dish set on it would teeter like a see-saw.