So sorry about Sadie. That must be especially hard since she is so young.

I have found some vets are reluctant to bring up euthanasia, preferring to let the owner reach the decision in their own time. If you feel she is suffering and doesn't have much quality of life, you should have a heart to heart with the vet about her prognosis and bring up this option yourself and whether it would be best under the circumstances. I'm sorry you're going through this.

Somebody here once said their vet told them that if their tail still wags it isn't time yet.

I've heard that if she still has three things she enjoys doing (eating, playing, sleeping, cuddling, etc) it is definitely not time.
If she doesn't have anything she still enjoys, then maybe it is.
But many cats much older have bounced back from pretty serious kidney problems -- is Sadie on IV fluids???

first and Foremost, Im sorry you are having to go through this so early in your dogs life. I am glad to hear you ar working with the vets and have put so mush attention into your dogs care, you are to be commended for doing what you have been. To answer your question = Quality of life for me and for many is the best way to judge if your dog is no longer enjoying life. If your dog is eating and drinking water, and is happy some of the time, enjoying walks or playing in the house with you, then I would say there is hope. If your dog has spent the last week listless, unable or not wanting to eat or drink or interact I would say it is time. Making your dogs last days on earth, providing comfort and care are the best things you can do. You will never regret spending the attention. My best to you. PS - I hate this part of pet ownership, it sucks.

Sadie is a cat........correct?

Cats do much better than dogs with treatment for Kidney disease. Has the vet said she's in kidney failure, or just has kidney disease? As sammycat said, you'll know by her quality of life.

My dog recently died of kidney failure and there was no mistaking it was time. Monday AM, as we lay in bed, she didn't have much energy and gave me 'the look'........one that says 'this life is not fun anymore'. She had a pretty good day so I waited. Tues. she woke early with labored breathing, weakness and terrible diarrhea............the vet was at my house soon after.

Thanks all for answering and sorry for the confusion. Sadie is a siamese cat.

She was on IV fluids for 5 days. Then she gained a pound and they said it was time to see if she could function on her own at home and she was not eating well at the hospital. I would go there 3-4 times a day and she would eat some. The last day she started eating on her own. I brought her back 5 days later and they said her levels were going up and to bring her back two days later for a urine test. I guess they also checked her blood pressure and said that was high now too. (DH had to take her in because I had to go on a business trip that is a once a year event) SHe had also lost 4 ounces since she was home.

She is on two kinds of antibiotics and mylanta and now today she will go on a script instead of mylanta and a blood pressure pill. She is eating still and hasn't lost any more weight in the last 3 days.

I agree it just sucks for lack of a better word. She does seem to enjoy cuddling still and she is still wagging her tail some. DH has mastered giving her the meds so she still will hang with me which is very sweet of him. He did it while I was away and has suggested he keep doing it so she won't be skittish of me. She is a skittish typical siamese that has only ever bonded to me.

There is a great Yahoo group for owners of cats with kidney disease. My 17.5 year old is in the early stages, and it has been a wonderful source of information -- and support -- for us. Its alot of emails, but once you subscribe, you can elect to just read them online.
Any question you have about whats going on with Sadie, will be answered thoroughly by real-life pet owners who have gone through the same things!!
It could help save her life! Keep us posted, and good work on taking such good care of your baby.
See the link before for more information on the group!

Here is a link that might be useful: Feline CRF Group

I to wish to say how sorry I am that you and your Sadie are going through this.

I had a 14 year old dog that had numerous problems. For over three years she was on meds that took their toll. About a week before I was forced to make the decision, I couldn't figure out why she was looking at me so intently. Something I had never experienced. After about a day or two of this, I realized something was horribly wrong.

A week later I lost her. My theory is you will know. I agree with Mazer, there simply has to be a "good quality" of life that creature is experiencing. If this is not the case, the decision has to be made.

On this same note. I planned all along for the process to be done at home. I simply couldn't bare the thought of loosing my friend on a cold metal table. The experience was very spiritual. My dog died in my arms.

I don't think I would recommend this to anyone who is not spiritually ready to deal with all that is involved with this. The decision for me was easy. Almost a year later, I am still haunted by what happened in my living room.

Good luck!

SG

I wouldn't go by the tail-wgging thing:
Dogs will wag their tails for a beloved person even if they're dying.

I've learned to look the vet in the eye & say,
"Is she ever going to have a better day?"

If not, then it's time.

If the vet hesitates, that pretty much speaks for itself.

If the vet hedges or waffles, pin him/her down:
"What are her chances? 50/50? 60/40? 90/10?
How is she feeling right now?
If she does improve, how long will it last?"

My problem has always been hanging on too long, & that's just not right.

It's wrong to keep an ailing pet here with me, suffering, because I "looove her" & don't want her to go.

You can get the vet to give you valium or something similar, & give it to your pet before that last journey to the clinic, so that it's less upsetting for the pet.

spiritual gardener, I'm sorry you're grieving, & that your grief is focused on a place that you see all the time, but you *did do the right thing* for your dog.

Now you need to do the right thing for yourself.

I've found that pumping a "bad memories" place full of powerful good experiences is the best way to neutralize the bad feelings.

You can have a ceremony in that room celebrating your dog's life, have friends over to speak & to reminisce, light candles...
& bless her memory & release her to the universe.

For me and my pets, having the euthanasia done at home is a less stressful experience than it would be in a vet's office.

Unlike SG, I have no haunting memories of it and I found the experience easier than I expected since each pet left in a relaxed and loving state of mind.
Talk to your vet ahead of time about the procedure so that you'll be familiar with it and discuss whether they will take the pet for cremation or you keep it for burial.
I like doing this ahead of time because when 'the day' comes around, I'm barely able to speak to anyone and I don't want to ask a lot of questions. I try to stay calm for my pet and say my goodbyes ahead of time.

My vet was wonderful..........she explained everything briefly as she went thru the procedure, then let herself out the front door. Our animals have all been fairly small so we always choose to bury them on our property.

SG, Sylvia has good suggestions, especially in regard to releasing your dogs spirit.

We spent a week of not knowing if we should go ahead and give Chelsea peace or not. The Thursday night before we lost her on Saturday, she gave us one final playtime. It was like she knew we needed that. After that time it was a rapid decline. On Saturday morning the look in her eyes said it all. Like SD and others we had our time with her before we took her in to the vet. He was great with us, we didn't have to go in through the front door. We actually went to a seperate building. I didn't want my DH to have to bury her - she was a large dog plus he was so upset by the whole ordeal. I did have her creamated seperately and have her ashes in an oak box. I also had her paw print taken and cast in plaster. It is in a frame with her picture. That was all done by the place that did the creamation. I find it a comfort to me.

My thoughts are with you and your sweet Sadie. I think you will know when it is time.

Thanks for your comments Mboston.

I am coming up on the first anniversary (January 30th). I have committed myself to having some closure in all of this. I have ashes that I am going to spread in all of the places we went. I also have numerous medical papers that I am going to shred.

Part of my issue is I was incredibly close to my dog. She got me through so much. I rescued her when she was nine months old, lost her when she was 14 years old. That's a long time.

Every time I think I am going to do something, I just can't. The pain is to great.

SG

First I am sorry you and Sadie are going thru this most difficult time. My thoughts are when a pet more bad/suffering time than good/quality during the day and more bad days than good it is time. As difficult as it is to make the decision you will know they are at peace and no longer suffering. Also I offer my Sympathy to other posters that have lost pets.

I'm so sorry to hear about your difficult time. It sounds like you are taking good care of Sadie. I'm sure it is hard to weigh the quality of life to determine when/if it is time to let go.

I, too, am very sorry to hear of Sadie's illness. I am going through the same thing with my second CRF cat right now. Bitsy was diagnosed about a month ago, and I'm still trying to stabilize his condition. One of the biggest challenges in managing CRF is that there are so many other conditions that can occur in conjunction with it: dehydration (most common), inappetance, acid stomach, constipation, diarrhea, mineral imbalances, anemia, heart problems, hypertension, and the list goes on. You add a med, supplement, or treatment to address one problem, and it causes two or three others. Just when you have everything adjusted so that the cat is doing well, something goes off kilter again. It's no fun walking the CRF tightrope.

That said, it sounds like Sadie is actually doing pretty well. She's eating on her own and seeking attention. Those are both great signs that would indicate to me that it's not yet time to say goodbye. You will find that with CRF cats, it's particularly difficult to decide when enough is enough because they can be on death's door one day and rally back to relative health the next. It's darned difficult not to keep holding out hope for one more rally when your cat is having a particularly bad day.

I would urge you very strongly to have your vet teach you how to administer subQ fluids at home and set you up with the supplies to do so. Nothing can make a CRF cat sicker quicker than dehydration, and you can avoid that by setting up a schedule of fluid administration according to your vet's recommendations. Don't be fooled into thinking that Sadie is adequately hydrated even if you see her drinking all the time. CRF cats can't utilize fluids properly, so they can drink all day and still become dangerously dehydrated. Most likely, the 4 oz Sadie lost was water weight from the fluids she received at the vets.

This is a horrible disease, but it seems so much more unfair when it strikes such a young animal as Sadie. I hope the antibiotics help bring her numbers back within reasonable ranges. Bitsy is just finishing up a round of Amoxil now, and I do believe it has helped with what was apparently a liver infection.

I wish you and Sadie the best possible outcome.

Laurie

Best wishes with Sadie. This was an especially difficult post for me to read . . . and I almost passed it by. We have a terminally ill sheltie who was diagnosed with multiple problems almost a year ago. At that time, we had a very frank conversation with our vet. We told him that under no circumstances should Sawyer suffer. We would keep him informed as to how Sawyer was doing; if he would be honest when his condition had reached the end. We've been in touch with our vet at least monthly and so far, Sawyer's quality of life has been OK (i.e. no pain detected, eating, playing, walking, etc). We know his condition could change in an instant, so we give thanks daily for waking up to his impatient "grunts" that it's time to get up. My thoughts will be with you during this icky (for lack of a better word) time. Please keep us updated on Sadie's condition.

Wow. I'm so sorry about what you are going through. The rule of thumb for me and my friends is that when the animal is no longer enjoying life, it's time to let them go. My old kitty had renal failure and did very well on a renal diet for a long time. Finally, the day came when he just didn't want to get up and eat and get his lovin's. Then, we knew it was time to let him go.
Take care...

The last cat I had who died went into renal failure very quickly and after being hospitalized three days, the vet recomended euthanasia. I have a soon to be 18 year old cat who is not well, but still eats well, drinks ,uses the litter box and can jump onto the island from the floor. He's shabby looking because he doesn't groom himself and won't let me do it either. He never liked it but now even less and I don't want to aggravate him. His green eyes are still real clear and he's lying in his fleece bed now . I hope I know when the time is. I don't think he's suffering and my best wish would for him to die in his sleep..but just not for awhile.

Thanks so much everyone. Good idea to ask the vet about fluids. I will when I bring her back on Sunday. I am a little bit encouraged - I put her on the scale this morning and she has gained a few ounces back.

I never realized that the vet would come to your house. I learn so much on this forum! I am off to check out that yahoo group.

The CRF support group is indispensible, so definitely join that. Here are a couple of other websites with tons of information on CRF. They are helping me work out a management plan with my vet for Bitsy based on his symptoms and bloodwork:

Nadia's Feline CRF Page
TANYA'S FELINE CHRONIC RENAL FAILURE INFORMATION CENTRE

When my Dobe was diagnosed with cancer I made it very clear that the quality of what ever time was left was far more important than the length of time that was left. With me I have always found that as long as I was still having doubts about whether it was time or not, then it really wasn't, when it's the right thing to do then all doubt will be gone. You know your baby better than anyone. Listen with your heart and she will tell you. I'm very sorry that you are having to go thru this. It's never easy but especially with one so young.

Lisa

One thing to consider is whether the treatment you are providing is for the animal or for yourself....

My vet could have reduced the size of all the tumors in my dog with steroids, but that would have been for me, not for her.

She told me it was time with her eyes...I knew it was the right thing to do....not prolong the suffering.

Many animals are "noncomplainers" and human animals forget that sometimes. They may be silently suffering and we would never know it...

Be at peace with your decision and so will your kitty. :o)

Well, an update if anyone is interested. Sadie seems to be doing much better. One med was changed about a week or so ago and I have been home for the last week making sure she gets food 4 times a day and she is up in weight about 8ozs this week. She is acting more like her old self! We are working with a different Dr. now who gives us more info and who we seem to relate to better. They ran a bunch of tests today and tomorrow we will agree on the next course of action for her.

I appreciate everyone's responses so much. I have never had to handle something like this and it helped more than you can know!

Yay!

I am soooooo glad to hear that Sadie is doing better! That's wonderful news! It's also terrific that you have a new vet who communicates better with you and with whom you feel more comfortable. That is so important.

I find that I can keep much better track of Bitsy's condition by plugging all of his blood test results into a spreadsheet on my computer. That way, I can evaluate each blood value's current status and compare it to earlier blood tests side by side. It's also very helpful to keep a record of everything I'm putting into Bitsy - food, supplements, meds, fluids - so that I can help identify problems and/or solutions when his condition changes in any way.

I have just ordered a baby scale so that I can monitor Bitsy's weight more carefully. If I had done that in mid-Dec, I would have known I was administering too much fluid before I nearly killed him with overhydration.

If you get confused by any of those test results, check Tanya's website that I linked for you above. It has a very good section on interpreting test results.

Give Sadie a smooch for me!

Laurie