This is iffy. Allowing one dog on the bed while containing the other probably won't cause jealousy or the older dog to be upset - however, it is kind of telling the youngest dog that they are higher in the 'pack' than the other dog - which could cause problems in the future between the two as far as the younger dog possibly becoming overly possessive when it comes to furniture, toys, etc with the other dog.

Also - dogs aren't really considered fully 'mature' mentally, until about 3 years old - so right now is the best and easiest time to set good ground rules and examples for the youngest - if they aren't set now, you could have a completely different dog in a year and a half.

This doesn't neccesarily mean containing the youngest in a crate - but would it be possible to give the two dogs a room/confined space in the house they could share together?? Or giving the youngest a bed on the floor to sleep on?

When you say the oldest doesn't sleep through the night if it's not crated - what does the dog do at night? Does it get into stuff at all, or is it just restless?

The older dog barks all night. It seems that when we go to sleep she acts like she being abandoned and as soon a one of us gets up she stops.

So your dog has trained you to get up when she barks and every time you get up she is rewarded with attention - who is training who...I dont know how much running around these dogs do but I recommend a good long walk beofre bed time as well as at least 2 other times during the day. Not a sniff fest walk, but a real good paced walk. Bealges bay in defiance and to call in their buddies when on a hunt. Maybe put the crate in the bedroom with you door opened...Ignore your dogs barking and teach it to go back to sleep.

Mazer is right - this behavior has been reinforced. Crating should never be used as a solution to a problem, but only a tool to aid you in solving the problem.

Your best bet is to teach the older dog to stop barking, by not responding. It will be irritating, no doubt about it. But it's worth it.

Another thing you can try is to put the older dog on a leash at night attached to a side table by your bed - make sure the area is clear so they can't get caught up, and teach them to sleep beside you on a bed on the floor.

Keep a can full of pennies with the top taped closed - give the dog loves when he/she is quiet. When the dog starts to bark, shake the can. Once he/she has been quiet for a bit, give more loves. This reinforces quiet behaviour, and assures the dog you're still there.

Everyone seems to be missing the point here!!! If your older dog doesn't mind being in it's crate then let it be! After all it should identify this as it's own "Den" and safe area. Not an area of discipline. If it rests and is peaceful in the crate then why change? Is the crate in your bedroom? Yes you are bringing human emotions into the equation where they have no place. You need to decide where your dogs sleep. What do you want? Decide that then take the appropriate action to make it occur.

docden I dont think you read the original OP's entire posting, they wrote "We crate them both at night when we go to sleep because the older dog will not sleep thru the night any other way."

Now MAZER that is both an insult to me and an ignorant remark to make. Of course I read and replied to the orginal post. She was asking if it was ok to crate one dog and not the other. Did you read it?
"...The younger dog will crawl in to bed with us and sleep thru the night. My husband thinks that we need to crate both of them because the older dog will be upset if she is crated and the younger one is allowed to sleep with us."

One would assume that crating the older dog keeps it from barking, or "lin01" would be here asking the question, which would be a sign that it is comfortable in its crate!!

One would also assume that atleast one of them would like the dog or dogs to sleep with them.

My reply was simple, straightforward and honestly addressed her situation.

By the way remarking that a beagle "Bays in defiance" is one of the most rediculous comments I've ever heard. Talk about putting human emotions into the mind of a dog. How truly uninformed you must be!

Why are there always people looking to insult "common sense" on these forums?

docden - looks like you just registered today to post on this forum.

Your comments to mazer are a tad bit over the the top. You accuse her of insulting you, yet you post - "...By the way remarking that a beagle "Bays in defiance" is one of the most rediculous comments I've ever heard. Talk about putting human emotions into the mind of a dog. How truly uninformed you must be! Why are there always people looking to insult "common sense" on these forums?"

Wouldn't you consider your comments back to her to be insulting and actually, rather condescending?

It's so easy to point the finger at others and then turn around and be guilty of the same thing.

To answer a few questions, both dogs were sleeping in their crates when we got them. When I get ready for bed, both dogs will go in to their crates without being told. They seem to know when it is bed time. They will both sleep thru the night.
What started the conversation with my husband, was one night for some reason the younger dog had to get up in the middle of the night to go pee. Letting her our woke up the other dog, so I let them both out. The younger dog crawled in to bed with us and went back to sleep. The older dog stayed in bed for a little while and then got out of the bed would not stop barking. My DH got up and put her back in her crate, at which time she went back to sleep.
The older dog is top dog and I was worried that if we let the younger dog sleep with us, would that upset the pack order.
I do not think that we use the crates for punishment, that just were they sleep and they both sleep thru the night in their cates.

lino1
No problem with allowing the young dog to sleep on the bed if you wish. this will not effect the social status between the dogs as your older dog seems to want to be in the crate to sleep. As long as the dogs see you as leader they will accept your decissions.

sephia- Yes! Exactly the way her comments were made to me! Opinion is just that. It is not fact and passing it off as fact or allowing it to be misunderstood as fact is wrong. I don't expect an apology from MAZER and I will not provide one. It is unfortunate that so much false and misleading information is presented as it continues to be the major contributor to this country's current epidemic of untrained, maladjusted and aggressive dog situations. Please if it is only your opinion then state that. If it is fact then be prepared to back it up.

Docden - if you are so worldly in your knowledge of dogs, you should know that allowing a dog, particularly one who hasn't come into the age of mental maturity, on the furniture - is inviting disaster as far as who is 'leader' you put the dog right up with it's leader - it becomes the leader. And it can and WILL disrupt the the order between the two dogs. You can crate them both, or keep them both out of the crate, and deal with the barking issue.

And if you would like research to back this up - I suggest you use Google. You will find very few trainers who think it is okay to allow a dog, especially a young dog, on the furniture.

Also - if you require that Mazer and anyone else who may dispute your almighty 'facts' - to provide the evidence to back it up, do so yourself before you go off disputing the experience and knowledge of someone of who I have no doubt has better behaved and happier dogs than most owners will ever have.

You seem to be misinterpretting what I said! "...this will not effect the social status between the dogs as your older dog seems to want to be in the crate to sleep."
Those were my exact words now where in there do you see any indication that I was saying anything about the humans position is this? In fact at the end of the comment I said: " As long as the dogs see you as leader they will accept your decissions."
I don't ask for evidence to support opinions I simple ask for people to differentiate.
As long as you are googling try Skinner, Pavlov, and Darwin for simple support of learning theory and conditioning.
You are correct in these people probalby having better behaved dogs simply because of the shear amount of time spent working with them but happiness is debatable.

I would never challenge someones training program. I have observed and participated in numerous programs during my research as well as my personal experience training. They fill the full spectrum from one extreme to the other. Each had their own success and some had failures but I was there only to discover what the common factors were and how those dealt directly with simple structured canine learning theory. Most would be amazed at the common factors of the different programs that actually result in success. Quite often it is the underlying nuances and communication factors that actually cause the programs to work and the lack of them is what causes failure.
I do have my own opinion and methods used in training and of course I personally feel they are the best approach for me. However this does not mean I think other programs don't produce as good of results.

You know I read here all the time but have rarely posted. I have gotten to know the different personalities here and I can definately see that Docden has received nothing but grief everytime he/she has posted anything. I for one am glad that docden has joined in and is posting. No one opinion is the end all be all in dog training and I'm happy to have another's take on things.

I also happen to understand and agree that if the dogs see the owners as the leader than both of them will accept what they allow as fine and will not be "jealous" of the other.

BTW, munkos, I allow my dog on the couch and I am still his leader.