10K - I am so sorry to hear that you have been having so many problems with your renovation over the past few days.

I should hope that the appliance store will refund you for the refrigerator and dishwasher - at least you can look elsewhere (I am baffled that appliances can get lost in an appliance store!)

With regards to the cabinets - you are NOT being unreasonable. Put up a fight. Do not let them intimidate you or offer you anything LESS than what you would expect, or payed for. Don't let them make you feel like you are crazy. Do you have a sample of the cabinet that you ordered? Can you show them what you were expecting? What is written on your initial order?

It must be so aggravating. This is supposed to be an exciting time for you, not a disappointment. Not a let down.

You CAN do this, because in the end you are going to get the kitchen you deserve. Don't look at the mountain. Take one step at a time.

And you have GW for support too :)

Been there, done that, shot the contractor, did the time, got the tattoo. So I know how it feels.

You will get through this. Yes, you will.

10K, I'm so glad you got your $$ back on those appliances. An appliance chain here just declared Ch. 7, are you by any chance in the Denver or front range area?

As for your cabs--why are the cabs being installed? If you want them repainted, don't let them start the installation! May I ask what cabinet line you bought? Whether you bought from big box store or custom shop, you deserve the cabinets you ordered in the finish you expected! Just a couple of weeks ago there was a similar posting. I've included a link to it so you can read all the advice that was given. HTH!

Here is a link that might be useful: Recent bad cab thread

Oh man, why does stuff like this have to happen? I'm so sorry. What brand are your cabs?

Stop the install!! Don't let them install an inferior product! You should not have to accept them.

I just read the post that Flwrs linked above. I LOVE Bee's advice about stating what you expect and then be silent. The first one to talk loses.

It sounds like you might be a single woman. This might sound bad, but sometimes I think that men feel like they can push women around a bit more when there isn't a man helping you on your side. Stand your ground as your description does NOT sound like acceptable work.

I'm guessing the appliance store probably sold them, rather than losing them.
As far as the cabinets go, I agree with the others, stop the install! Do not accept them. Tell them they need to be made right or you'll have your money back!
On the hairline cracks in the paint, they must have meant that all their cabinets have the hairline crack. I can assure you that a crack free finish is not all that hard to accomplish!
I have built a lot of cabinets for clients and would never deliver let alone build, the poor quality product that you describe. I would be too embarassed to show my face!

Thanks to all. It's good to know I am not being crazy with my sense of what is "right". The finish is just awful and I know I can't live with it. I think moving ahead with install is ok, the cabinets can still be sprayed if installed.

The cabinet line is Midcontinent by Norcraft. I saw plenty of samples and my cabinets look nothing like those.

flwrs - yes I am in Boulder and yes, it is Ultimate Electronics where I got the appliances. The employees have been very sympathetic; they just can't do anything. Do you know of any appliance places in the area (other than the obvious?) Otherwise I am probably going to get them from Aus-Tex and have them shipped. My budget is tight since this was not a voluntary remodel due to the fire.

breezygirl - you are very astute, yes, I am single, legally for all of 3 weeks now. Ex-DH is supportive and has actually offerred to "help" but that doesn't seem right. I hate getting bullied around but don't intend to put up with it.

I intend to state my request to get them repainted tomorrow, get a quote to do so, and will refuse to pay the remaining amounts due until I get satisifaction. I think that's only reasonable.

It's disgusting that the reps think what you describe is "acceptable" I sure bet they wouldn't have something like that in their house!

I'm painting my own cabinets, and I'm not a Pro - yet you are going to find almost no cracks, runs and glue globs. Those are signs of someone that didn't care one bit and slapped the cabinets together.

Why are you installing these cabinets?????

They sound dreadful. Of course the reps were arrogant and unsympathetic - they know that you're going to accept these cabinets, they just needed to give you a bit of attitude to make sure you will capitulate to even more.

The only thing I keep coming back to is, why are you installing these cabinets. If they are unacceptable, you should be planning to accept not a one of these. Give them back if it is possible now.

I would give the parent company NOrcroft a call. Depending on the response; let them know you are a very activse member and contributor to one of the largest kitchen forum on the net. I'm so sorry this has taken over your remodel journey

OMG, I feel so badly for you. What more could possibly go wrong? Nothing, because you won't let it. You should get the cabinets you deserve. Stand firm. Don't install them as others have said. Put in writing what you expect from them and even though you may be shaking on the inside present it to them and insist that they replace or fix them to your satisfaction. I have to believe that things will work out for you and that you will find another steal on appliances. Who knows why these things happen to good people. Please keep us posted. I will be thinking of you.

painted cabs? some of the lines have you sign a disclaimer because of issues with paint and cracks and such. If that was not done-tell them it's inferior-you won't accept the doors-you want to send the doors back and get a refund. Are your carcasses okay?. You could get stained doors elsewhere if you could get some money back ...

I feel very badly for you, and wish I could give you a hug. I purchased my appliances through wdcappliances.com because their prices literally could not be beat. Their prices were better than Lowe's and Home Depot's sale prices. They are in California and I am in Michigan, but they give free shipping and it's very fast. I took delivery of two of the four appliances that I bought, but asked them to hold off on the other two because it would take up less space in my garage if they keep them for a while. I will recommend this company to anyone. I wish you the very best of luck with your cabinet crisis, and you should know that you have your Garden Webbers as your "support team".

STOP INSTALLING THE CABINETS NOW!!!

The rep who came to your home has a boss. And that person has a boss. It is time to become the squeeky wheel and really SQUEEK LOUDLY. This is NOT time to be pleasant. You crossed that point already. When this rep treated you like you don't know what you are talking about, all bets were off.

Go above this person. And again, STOP THE INSTALL IMMEDIATELY.

Regarding the appliances, do you have a Sears Scratch & Dent store near you? You might find excellent deals there. Our brand new Thermador 48" built-in fridge came from one, and it was 50% off. We would never had paid $7500 for a fridge, but 50% brought it down to the same cost as some of the cd fridges I was interested in, and it is so much bigger. so check them out, they do carry a lot of brands.

I'm sorry you are going through this, but it's time to fight, this is just unacceptable and I'm so sick of people being takend advantage of. You go girl.

It's quite possible that you will see lines on the paint where the door panels are joined in the corners. Wood is a natural product and will expand and contract. I think the best way to paint doors is to actually paint all pieces separately and then assemble the doors. You will see the lines where the various pieces join. When the doors are assembled and then sprayed, you risk having the paint bridge the gap and then crack as the pieces expand and contract. The other things you describe are flaws and should not be accepted.

10k,
This is dreadful.

((((((((((((((((((((cyber hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Only single 3 weeks and you have to deal with this kind of
bull-poo from dumb ignorant, idiotic and stupid sales
reps. You do not need this right now. You want peace and a
new kitchen to begin your independent life with.

First remind yourself YOU are not a complainer. Creeps like
this want an easy sale and will blame you.

Actions speak louder than words.
Did you sign for them? Send them back. In a calm soft quiet
Godfather like voice. So quiet they have to move closer or
ask you to repeat yourself. Say:

" These are not what I ordered. They are being returned."

They will turn hostile and mean. Prepare to respond in the
same soft quiet gentle voice that is firm and steadfast.
They will push you into keeping them. They loose money if
you send them back. Simply tell them.

"No thank you. I expect you to pick these up today."

Your contractor or GC and or KD will also try to get you to
keep them. Again be stanch, silent and strong. If you feel
the urge to respond give a quiet FU Dog smile. ( I tell my
daughters when you need to be mean but are choosing to be
polite give the FU dog smile it talks without words.)

This is a one giant hurdle you will overcome. Thinking of
you and knowing you will get through this. Just like you
did the wedding gown that was poly not silk.
~boxer

oh uggg I'm so sorry this is all happening, but you WILL get through it.

Take lots of pictures, close ups, of what you're talking about. Document your conversations and what they have offered as a 'fix'. Try to get their communications in writing. If you saw the cabs at a showroom, take close ups there, too.

And yes, bring this way up the ladder at the supplier. Let them know you are considering (or have already) disputing the charges with your CC company. As mentioned above, be the wheel that squeaks - even shrieks, if you have to.

Good luck!

I am so sorry you are going through all this crap. I agree with what others have said...Do NOT install horrible cabinets. Work up the chain of command at Norcrap. Be polite but firm. Send their CEO a copy of your first post on this thread.

After everything you've gone through, I'm sure it would be easier just to accept this situation, but you'll end up regretting it.

oh, 10KDiamond... this must be so tough. i'm really sorry you have to deal with this.

the way you were treated is so rotten. please don't let them get away with this. you are stronger than that and in the right.

lots of hugs

The manufacturer's rep and the retail rep came to the house today...

It sounds like a Norcraft representative visited. Correct? Here's an excerpt from Norcraft's Code of Ethics... 7. Customer Relations

Norcraft strives to develop and maintain excellent relationships with our customers. We are committed to providing our customers with quality and service.

You are expected to treat customers and business guests in a courteous and respectful manner at all times. Should a customer have a question or complaint, give the matter your immediate attention. If you ever feel you cannot properly handle a problem or difficult situation, refer the customer to your supervisor or higher management.

Possible contacts:

Mark Buller - Chief Executive Officer, President and Member of the Board of Managers of Norcraft GP L L C
Leigh Ginter - Chief Financial Officer and Principal Accounting Officer
Francis Ploetz - Executive Vice President, Operations
Kurt Wanninger - President of Mid Continent

Here is a link that might be useful: Norcraft Companies LP (Bloomberg Businessweek)

One of the reasons to not install the cabinets is that your installer may be blamed for the issues. You need to stop installing them at once! If the reps who visited you saw them being installed then they "know" that time, effort, and $$$ are on their side. The fact that you're installing the cabs implies to the reps that you can be bullied or otherwise "persuaded" to just accept them as-is.

You need to be strong, stop the install, and request they every cabinet that has even one issue be picked up and replaced OR have them all picked up and your money refunded...in full. Whether you'll be reimbursed for the installation to-date is doubtful unless you start talking to executives far up the chain of command.

I'm in Boulder, too. Have you looked at, oh what's that place in Louisville??? Wedgewood Cabinetry! That's it. I wonder if they'd be of any help (I am pretty sure they sell Norcraft).

We got our appliances at Hi-Tech, also in Louisville. They did *great* with the prices and storing our appliances for us. Someone else had terrific luck with Boulder Valley Appliance. We got our dishwasher and fridge drawers from Abt Electronics and those were really good experiences.

I think it's absolute crap that they are trying to pawn off on you shoddy cabinets. Shame on them. I am sending you v. local, strong, encouraging, kick-ass thoughts!

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I halted installation. (more problems arose late yesterday)

I sent a detailed letter to the cabinet retailer with cc: (by fax and fed ex) to owner of parent company of cabinet retailer, the President of Cabinet Manufacturer and CEO of Manufacturer's parent company (a public company). (Thanks, buehl.) I write demand letters for a living (attorney) but I am a horrible advocate for myself. Now I will reamin silent.

My GC supports my position - he says he's never seen cabinets this lousy. But mostly, this forum has given me strength to do this. Thanks to everyone. And I especially loved marcolo's comment. When do I get my tattoo?

Off to look at my soapstone to get a "custom template". They superimposed the stone so I can see exactly where the movement will lie on my pennisula. How cool is that??? That makes me happy (even though I won't have cabinets for a while to put it on.)

I will keep this forum posted.

Hi 10K, kerrys here from Littleton. We communicated a few weeks ago about granite.

I am so very sorry to hear about your troubles, and I didn't pick up on the fact that you were a single woman. We have more in common than I realized. Hang in there and get tough about the cabinets! Don't settle!

Appliances: what about Mountain High Appliance in Louisville--they have a website. Also, there is Builder's Appliance Center in my area--probably an Englewood address, and they have a website as well. I've purchased from them before. I bought my range at the Great Indoors, and got a good deal.

You are welcome to email me through my page--I think it is set up to do that--if I can be of any local-type help or support.

Just to let you know, I had to get our Project's Corporate HQ involved in my kitchen as well. It wasn't the cabinets (they were/are wonderful), it was the GC and the KD's manager. I put a stop work order on my kitchen to stop them from doing anything that might cause problems down the road with "fixes" and to make them "nervous" (no more $$$ until the job was completely done). I was lucky, an anonymous GWer worked in the corporate HQ of my KD's company and she brought my issues to their attention (I had posted them here).

This was a Thursday (I think), by Monday when we met w/our KD, GC, and the Install Manager, all my issues were miraculously resolved to my satisfaction! (They were basically told to do whatever it took to make me happy! I wasn't being unreasonable, that helped...nor are you, btw.)

Once corporate gets involved, it's amazing what can happen!

Good luck...and keep us posted!!!

Hi, 10K,

I can't believe the hassle you are having with your cabinets. It sounds much worse than what I went through with the cabinet boxes not being plywood as was clearly specified in my contract (and emphasized several times by me with the KD because I have problems with particle board and MDF). I agree that you should stop the install until it gets sorted out. I foolishly did not do so and the installation was pretty far along before getting stopped. But it was finally stopped and the cabinets are being re-done.

The representatives that came and talked with you sound like real jerks. And they seem to be the type who think they can get away with this because you are a woman. Even my GC seems to tell things to my DH instead of to me when he should be aware by now that I am making most of the decisions on this kitchen. Of course, maybe he is afraid of me! LOL

I think the sales rep banked on you wanting a kitchen back after demo and thought they could toss you a bone and you'd have little choice. As an atty you know your rights and their obligations so you need to take care of yourself as if you were your own best friend. I could see if there were a problem or 2, but to have every single cab in poor condition is ridiculous. What would you tell one of us if you read the same post and it was not yours?
Call their bluff and tell them you want a full refund. I am sure you would not want these cabs if you knew in advance how lousy they'd arrive. This is your chance to start anew and get decent quality. Your credit card company can be a great ally. They have gone to bat for me in the past and it really helped.
Good luck and please keep us posted. Knowing you are not keeping this issue to yourself may spur them to do the right thing in the end...