Are the north wall cabinets tall with counter between or all undercounter with a full counter run? Are you doing a 36" range AND double ovens? You must need tons of oven space. What are your island dimensions? Will you have a separate table too or is the island your everyday eating space? What do you hate? I am planning a somewhat similar set up with a "table" integrated into my island. Mine island is not a T but long (4' x 11' ish). I'll have about a 4' x 6' section of counter under the slab including my 36" gas cooktop and wall oven below. The rest of the slab will continue on to about the 11' point as our table supported by a 36" by 24" deep cabinet as pedestal with 18" overhang all around. I'll have my 2nd wall oven under my 7' "buffet counter" which is flanked on each side with a tall pantry type cabinet. I love this layout: lots of counter space and a clean, one-level look with large multi-use island (family meals, entertaining, holiday cooking "production" space, etc.) What an amazing pantry space you'll have!! I'd love more specifics on what you're thinking for your island and what you don't like... Then maybe I can comment about that.

I remember liking your plan, but this layout has big problems, in my opinion. I can't remember exactly how the bottom wall and the corner between the stove and sink was before, but I really dislike the new fridge location for a few big reasons:

1) I know it was at the other side of the kitchen before, so made sense with the prep area, stove, and oven. You had good zone separation in the previous plan, but now you don't with the fridge in the cleanup area.

2) Pantry and fridge space are often handy to have at the same end of the kitchen, so you're not going 2 different directions for your ingredients. I'm not usually picky about pantry and fridge being together, but in your case, they are so separated and will mean quite a bit of running around for the cook to get to both during meal prep or baking.

3) The fridge is crowding the sink counter space, as well as taking the best dish storage location. With a kitchen this size, I don't think you have to make that kind of compromise.

4) It also forces the dw to the other side of the sink...When you have the dishwasher door open, you will not be able to access that whole corner of the counter and the cabinets above the dw and corner, or the cabinets to the right of the cooktop.

The trash location also doesn't make sense to me. Not too handy to the prep area, and not at all handy to the cleanup area.

I think you can do better and hope you can work it into a plan you'll love. Best wishes.

What rhome said -- on all accounts. I did move my pantry space next tothe fridge in the new layout, and it has worked better. Mine were divided by no more than 4-6 feet before, but on different walls. It is easier to work with them on the same wall.

rhome: (sigh). I agree with all that you've said. I just am at a loss how to fix it! Things all went to pot when we realized we couldn't have the 48" range. The more I tinker, the more confused I get....and now the design stinks.

faleash: You can view my entire plan and elevation here: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/build/msg0314090816421.html

I would love to see more of your kitchen design. Do you have pics posted?

My T island is 8' wide and the seating area is 4' on each side. Yes, there is a farm table with seating for 6-8 right on the other side of the island. The cabinets on the north wall are upper and lower cabinets....making it look like a hutch on either side of that wall.

I hope this helps!

I'm confused as to why making the range smaller changed everything so much. Seems like you'd just have more room for cabinets and counter (which will usurp some of the savings from the range). This is what I'd do:

1) Putting the fridge (and probably wall oven, especially if you want to center the range on the island) back on the wall at the top would solve most of the problems I listed.

2) Rearrange the cleanup area, probably starting (from corner) with a 36" corner cabinet, then trash, sink, dw, and drawers for dishes.

3) You may also want to add a trash pullout by the prep sink.

4) Once the trash and fridge are moved, a good place for the microwave (if you want it below counter) would be at the far end of the island, where the trash is shown now.

5) My suggestion from last time was to shift the prep sink one cabinet toward the top of the island, too, so that the prep counter is clear directly across from the centered range, and also possibly making it accessible to others from that end of the kitchen without getting right in the cook's way. That also might be the best location for the trash, too, so...

I'm not sure what to do with the expanse of counter to the right of the range, though...A lot of space just to not have a purpose. Maybe somehow you could create the look of a larger range area with the range not centered in it, so you could move that whole area down. Maybe an inset butcher block or section of stainless counter next to the range. It would probably mean a large hood, even though the smaller range. But I could see that as useful for using things like waffle irons, panini grill, or other electric cooking appliances. Just a stab at an idea.

I don't remember what was proposed earlier, but here are two suggestions for discussion.

Even though you lose some countertop space, I like the first one best.

The second one has some of the issues RHome410 mentioned about the one that started the thread, but it does make use of that expanse of counter to the right of the cooktop. BUT, it would mean closing up the window there (or separating the ovens & refrigerator w/the window between, if there's room...but then you'd have a "black hole" in the corner...hmmmm...unless you made it into an appliance garage.....something to think about.)

Anyway...here they are:

Layout #1:

* Moves the pantry door into the kitchen and out of the mudroom.

* Makes access to the pantry much easier from the kitchen and keeps the refrigerator & pantry (the "food storage zones") together.

* It also switches the MW to the other end so it's near the refrigerator.

* The Prep Sink also moves slightly south so it follows the MW and is near the (1) cooking zone, (2) prepping zone, and (3) baking center.

* This location also puts the prepping/cooking/baking fairly close together and protected from outside snackers.

* The cleanup zone is separated from the rest of the kitchen and has plenty of "dirty dish" room as well as plenty of dish & glasses storage around it.

* Oh, and I'd add another trash pullout next to the prep sink...also convenient for cooking zone.

In general, this setup allows multiple activities to go on at once...2 or 3 people prepping, 1 cooking, anther baking, and yet another cleaning up after everyone else...and no one getting in anyone else's way!

Layout #2:

I was not thinking out of the box enough to consider moving the whole cleanup area, but Buehl's plans do a great job of utilizing that corner I was worried about, and addressing the problem of connecting the baking area to the kitchen better...A concern I had but didn't express.

Oh my goodness!! Hugs to you all. I love the layouts. I can't thank you enough, and I can't wait to sit and think through these ideas.

You guys are simply the best!