Based on my personal experience, each of the boutique brand has a special palette (or mood). I was unsatisfied w/ EK's paint because I found her darker colors to be muddy and the lighter colors tend to have undesirable undertone (yellow turning to fleshy peach, etc.) I really love Donald Kaufmann colors but his palette is very pale and clear. I found his palette perfect if you are an art collector and need that very pale shade to play off your art, or if you do white on white/creamy/chic interiors. I don't think darker colors are his forte.

My current obsession is Farrow & Ball because the colors are very muted - they add instant age and ambience to the walls. However, their colors are not full spectrum (though personally I found their colors to be a lot more complex than EK). I strongly recommended their greens and neutrals. Honestly, I have been very happy w/ their colors and I am one picky painter! :-)

If you want a full-spectrum version of those colors, sounds like you should get some sample cards from the other full-spectrum paint companies, yes?

I'm looking for the elusive green as well. As much as I'd love to have full-spectrum, there are too many barriers (mail order is just the least of them), so I'm working with a great guy at the local SW store. He loaned me a fan deck, is tinting my sample pots (easier to do when you start with the lightest color), ordering larger size color cards, etc. My point is try to find someone open and helpful who you can work with in person, of course if they work with full-spectrum, so much the better. I don't know if the smaller companies do this.

Try painting sample boards and moving them around rather than painting patches on the wall.

Thanks for the suggestions. It seems like every time I THINK I have figured out which company to use for colors, there are several more good options to expolore. I guess I'm trying to avoid getting sample cards from 3 or 4 different places and then waiting for them to arrive and then waiting for paint pots, etc., and then waiting for the paint itself. I've been at this for a month already and we are getting impatient. That's not the best way to search for a perfect color, huh?

Does anyone have experience with Citron paints? It seems to be the most inaccessible in terms of getting cards, samples and paint ($100 for a fan deck!).

Also, there was a suggestion from the paint forum to use EK to match the BM colors into her paint. Has anyone here done that? How were the matches? Did they also seem muddy or lacking in complexity?

I would love to look into Farrow and Ball. I just hope my husband and I have the patience for another round of searching!

Yes, BM color match of EK Terracotta Sand for the guest bath had what looked like tiny patches of charcoal throughout. This was revealed after we received the actual EK and applied it over the BM--sort of a side-by-side test. It is a great color for this bath and for grooming, applying make-up, etc. I sent Ellen a sample of my floor tile previously.

Sounds like you really need to get a "boutique" paint into your hands and see for yourself. Because if you're at all like me, you won't be happy until you do. I know sometimes I research things, gather information, and get opinions until I find myself no further along than when I started, plus, I become burnt out and it is no longer enjoyable.

My SW 8x12 samples arrived yesterday and they are sooo helpful. All of the samples look great in the room and I'm very happy with the green sample (though honestly, I could go with any of the 3!). This process has been much easier on me and quite convenient.

So do I have this right?...You had BM try to match the Terracota Sand? This is one of the paint pots I tried for my kitchen. Next to BM Havana Tan, it looked less pink (or red?) and it didn't look good next to my cabinets which have a little pink tone in them even though they are not painted. The Terracota Sand looked a little green next to the Havana Tan. I may try EK Sand there instead.

I called EK this morning to see about having them match to the BM colors. They charge $100 per color to do that, and I'm looking for at least two colors to be matched. They were very helpful about trying to adjust existing colors to my BM colors without EK actually going to the paint lab and doing an exact match. Also, they said if they had an existing custom match that they would not charge the $100 and I could order that matched color, but without knowing who ordered the custom to begin with, they have no way to access it in their files. Oh boy. I am waiting for a call from them this afternoon about all of this.

I am getting frustrated and at times want to just use whatever BM color is sitting in front of me at the time. But then I remember that I have to live with it every day. There is a time to stop the search though; just don't know when that is.

Which greens are you looking at for your bedroom? I have ordered a color card from Farrow and Ball. I hope it comes soon because I'd like to get on with painting. Maybe they will have the perfect color!

Yes, the BM match of Terracotta Sand got a thumbs down. I'm really glad we used the real thing, especially given the importance of paint and lighting in a bathroom. The green I'm going with for the computer room/home office is SW Netsuke. People say it's tan but it reads green in my room. Had I had my act together I would have gone with EK Edgewood Green, but events and DH conspired against me.

Hang in there; I'm sure your patience and persistence will pay off.

I looked at the colors you mentioned and in all except one there is no close DK equivalent. And for the other one, (HC 141) Hollingsworth, the closest DK match (DKC-46) isn't very close at that. I checked them last night under incandescent light and unfortunately today was very grey and rainy so I haven't made any further progress. But I will try again tomorrow in better natural light.

BTW, the free color card from F&B is notoriously inaccurate compared to the actual paint. The more expensive color fandeck is supposed to be better, and I've found it so, but others have not. I have the F&B fandeck set and can look at that tomorrow and compare it with the BM colors you noted. The paint is lovely, however.

Another resource, though this may the most expensive of all, is the Fine Paints of Europe - superb paint, but very expensive. They have a colorist on staff and he could tell you which colors in their enormous line would be the best matches to the BM colors. The colorist is very easy to talk to over the phone.

I share Bellaflora's lack of enthusiasm of EK colors. I have purchased her paint for a couple of projects and have been disappointed. Not in the paint quality, though ICI/Dulux is not my fave, it's OK; but the colors themselves are just not clean enough for my taste. There's a off-ness about them as if there was too much full-spectrum-ishness going on. The result is a jarring garishness and muddiness to EK's colors, at least to my eyes.

I adore the clarity and luminosity of DK; and I've always been pleased by Citron, F&B and FPE. It can often take me a couple of large, painted sample-boards to work out exactly what color I need to use to get the effect I'm looking for. I always have an idea what I'm going for, but sometimes it takes awhile to get there.

Since you've had a decorator's suggestions, there';s nothing wrong with going with BM paint on those rooms. You might run amuck trying to translate her palette to another line if you can't get very close matches. Have you tried making sample boards of the BM colors and seeing if you like them in situ?

I am a big fan of FS paint, and always try to use it, but there's nothing wrong with BM colors if chosen carefully. I have painted lots of rooms with that paint. You know, in the end it's just paint and FS is great but maybe not worth throwing everything out of kilter at the last minute. You will have other chances to paint and can start with the FS lines rather than working backwards.

HTH,

Molly

Thank you so much for your time and suggestions. The reason I felt I needed advice from a designer is because I want to paint all the rooms in my house. I had never done it all at once beofre. So this is my chance to paint what I want. I feel that if I go ahead with the BM paint, I (and especially my husband) won't want to go through the time and expense of trying out colors again any time soon, and we'll just live with it indefinitely. I'd rather do it now. So I decided to use the designer's ideas as a starting point. They were collected to coordinate throughout the house and to not clash with things such as the tile floors and kitchen cabinets. When the designer was at our house, we did the fan deck thing, but he has not seen the samples I got and painted on the wall. I would rather not pay him to come back to the house and rework the colors I don't like and ask him to work with these other companies' colors which he may not be familiar with.

Working with this starting point, I feel comfortable changing some of those colors -- even to another color if need be. I have a two storey foyer and 7 rooms that need paint, plus two bathrooms and a laundry room but those can come later if necessary. For three rooms, I don't like the colors suggested by the designer. The bedroom exlusive "green/blue" is another one of the rooms (I'm beginning to want to start back at ground zero there), and the other 3 rooms are colors I like but would like to investigate FS possiblities. I'm not averse to having a slightly different color in order to smile with satisfaction every time I look at them.

Of course I can go with the BM paints; after all, I didn't even know about these "boutique" paints until recently (I found out after I had the designer here). The burning question is, are the boutique paints so wonderful that I will be wondering about them every time I look at a house full of BM? As it stands now, I want to change at least three of the colors anyway; two more of the rooms I can easily change to boutique because they are my daughters' rooms and they are not so hard to please with a pale pink (heaven help us) and muted blue. So that already makes 5 choices for which I can try boutique. I decided to just try the rest too if possible and IF worthwhile. Again, given the expense of trying out all these possibilies, I don't want to do it twice.

I guess the title of this post doesn't describe the content.

I forgot to mention Citron paint this morning. I asked this before, but does anyone out there have any experience with their colors? I am having trouble finding any useful information about them, and their website offers only tiny little dots of color. At $100 for a fan deck I'm not sure I want to go that route unless I know there is a strong possibility of using the colors. Are they helpful on the phone about finding possible colors to try in pots? Are the colors nice? I'd rather spend my money on paint pots than a whole fan deck.

I just got back inside from looking at at HC141 (Hollingsworth) and DKC-46 in good outdoor light.

They are close, but not a perfect match, which I wouldn't have expected anyway.

Here's a commentary on the differences: The BM is slightly darker; slightly more yellow and slightly grayer. The DKC46 is lighter, clearer and a bit bluer. You might find it useful to order a sample pot of DKC46 from the Color Factory, then paint it out on at least two large foam boards (so you can see the "corner effect" of two adjacent walls) and then move them around in the room. (Attach folded loops of blue tape to the backs of the foam boards to support them.)

However, it sounds like you are awash in color indecision. Maybe I can help as I have been there, myself.

First, let's look at the impatience that seems to be bugging you. What's the hurry; is it to meet some particular event you have planned? Sometimes there are family things like a wedding or something that drives the whole process. Other times it's just self-imposed deadlines which can be shed if you come to the point where you're ready for some color but want to go about it in a thoughtful, personal way. Choosing the paint colors always takes some backing and forthing, even for experts in their own spaces because paint is an imperfect vehicle sometimes. Experts can quickly choose for other people because they don't have to live with the results. Experts may be more informed about color effects and combinations but in the end only the person who has to live with the colors can tell if they are right for themselves and the spaces involved. And this always takes time.

The reason I'm belaboring this is that we amateurs can start to believe there is some magic (and secret) formula to picking the right colors, but there isn't, really. In the end it boils down to getting a color you like that creates the effect you want to have. For instance, if you thought you'd like to have yellow in a room, you would still need to work through what kind of yellow would make the room look like you're hoping it will look. Some yellows would be very strong like a school bus, some soft as moonlight, some cool and lemony and some warm like a ripe Bartlett pear. All would be useful yellows, in certain circumstances.

Try to reframe indecision in your mind as a series of experiments and and narrowing of choices to arrive at where you wanted to go.

I can't tell from your notes above which rooms you are thinking of using which colors in, and more importantly, the kind of effect or atmosphere you're hoping to get. Can you work that out in your mind, as a first step?

Meanwhile, since you've got FS on your mind I think that it might be useful for you to order at least one other fan deck (you have the EK deck, right?) from either Citron or DK to get another take of FS paints if they interest you. Or send for a set of the larger chips from F&B to look at their line. (I expect that you could resell the decks after you're done with them to recoup at least some of you money.) Exclude from consideration any brand of paint that would be more expensive, per gallon, than you'd want to pay.

It might also help to buy a couple of fandecks from the more main-stream brands of paint (SW or BM - there are 2 BM decks, plus the little Aura one - would be my choices) so you have a library of colors to think about. They are not expensive (maybe $25 apiece, or so) and very useful as thinking points.

Do you have to have the whole house repainted, all at once, or can you go room-by-room? If you're working with painters sometimes it's much more economical to have a bigger job. But if you can paint room by room, not only is it easier to begin the plan, but it's less disruptive and can be started up and put down as you're schedule permits.

The one other thing I wanted to mention: you said you have bright white trim. I would strongly recommend you plan on covering that up. I find pure white trim in most cases overwhelms other colors. It's well worthwhile, in my opinion, to have softer, off-white or cream trim.

There are so many colors, but I bet you have a instinctive, and excellent, idea which colors you'd like for each of your spaces. Write those down, then think through what atmosphere you'd like in that room, and then, and only then, begin to search for the right paint color. Don't worry too much at this stage what will "go" with your stuff or fixed decorative things like floors or cabs. There's a shade or tint of every color that will "go" with whatever unchangeable elements you're working around.

If getting off the starting point of thinking through the color assignment in each room seems to be blocking you. Then look at pictures in magazines of different types of rooms and see if there's a pattern to what you like: blue bedrooms, yellow kitchens, etc. That may unearth what's in your mind. Color is a very subliminal thing, and uniquely driven by our personal psychological associations and the differences in each person's physiological response to light waves.

Once you have an idea of the effect you're searching for then think through what influences available outdoor light may have on the space, and at this point begin to add in concerns about the other permanent colors in the spaces.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think you're struggling with the wrong end of the problem (brand/paint formula) and if you start from what you want to see and feel in your rooms,it will be easier in the long run. At least, that's the way it works for me.

Oh, one other thing, if you have been living with builder's beige, or even off-white, all other colors will seem a bit overwhelming, at first. So paint large sample boards, and live with them for a few weeks to accustom your eye before discarding a good potential color. Boards are better than swatching on the walls because you can move them around to see different walls, or even from room to room.

HTH,

Molly

PS: ALthough it may permanently sour you on non-FS paint, I suggest you read the one, or all, of the three books by or about Donald Kaufman's paint. There is much to be learned from them (including some DIY FS formulas). They are lovely, and expensive, but most libraries can get them for you on inter-library loan. If you need the titles, I'll be glad to list them, but if you search Amazon, you'll winkle them out pretty easily.

Thank you again, for your generous and savvy comments. You have told me what I already knew but wanted to hurry along in my self imposed deadline to get rid of the boring walls we've seen for 1 1/2 years, to use the advice of a professional because I'm not a designer myself, and to have a well heeled home, which we have not been able to have in our previous houses.

I want an inviting, sophisticated, gracious home. My color indecision comes from knowing that even though I might be drawn to certain colors when I see them in the paint store, I have also seen colors used in other homes and in pictures that I would not have chosen myself but look better than what I was drawn to. That is how I have expanded my taste in the past. Of course that's where looking at pictures helps.

I will take your advice on painting boards and moving them around the room. And living with the boards for a while. The more I look at the greens I have painted in the bedroom, the more I am picking them apart, seeing tones in them that I don't like. I plan to order the fan deck from Farrow and Ball and maybe I will even grit my teeth and get one from Citron.

When I read that this all takes time, I was thinking in terms of weeks, not months. And I had visions of that perfect gracious home being done faster because a designer was involved. Silly me.