Deep cycle boat batteries are required for this purpose.

If it was me though, I would install a water powered sump pump (assuming your not on a well).

No batteries to buy, charge, replace, but most important, explode or catch on fire. In addition most only run 6-8 hours, after that what will you do if power is not restored?

See link below for one of best I've seen & used.

Here is a link that might be useful: Liberty SJ-10 Sumpjet

Sorry, didn't answer your first question. You would need to buy a battery powered sump pump & battery to add/back up the existing pump which stays.

But again strongly suggest the water powered route.

As a fireman, I recall fighting a house fire during a ice storm with no power and the fire was caused by the battery in the basement, for the back-up sump pump.

Thanks zl700. How would I know if I were on a well? The SJ10 product description mentions a well pump will not operate during a power outage.

Thanks again!

If your on a well-

You have no water meter
Live in a rural area
Have a pipe with cap sticking up in yard
Perhaps have lousy quality water or lots of water conditioning equipment

HAVE NO WATER BILL

Do you have a well?

No, I definitely don't have a well then.

I am now intrigued by the water-powered pumps. Do you know anything about the Basepump (www.basepump.com)? A model like the RB-750 seems comparable to the Liberty SJ-10?

Ryan

Base Pump which was started in Buffalo (home of snow & ice storms) would be my second choice. Not sure if they still do but they used to package the unit with a water alarm. That may be of something of interest, or just buy one at HD.
AY McDonalds unit would be my third choice but expensive and it is all brass.

While Zoeller makes the best sump pumps (especially the M53), stay away from their water powered back up pumps.

My dad in Buffalo and along with at least 5 of his neighbors all have the SJ10. Last 5 day ice/snow storm they were the only ones on street with dry basements without tending the generator.

IMO-Portable generators are best left to run during day hours to keep the food, not run at night to bother neighbors, keep you up worrying about theft and running out of gas. The water pump will solve all that, including normal sump pump failures and outages when your not home.

Water-powered systems may seem to have an advantage, but they are weak in comparison to a strong battery backup unit. If you have low water pressure (ex. 30 PSI), your pumping power is only 5 or 6 gallons per minute at a 12' head. Compare this to a powerful backup unit like a Zoeller Aquanot II, which can pump over 30 gallons at the same height. You may think what's the problem, but if you lose power during a strong thunderstorm then you'll be thankful you have the extra pumping power capacity. Concerns about batteries can easily be addressed by either a. simple maintenance for wet cells or b. buy a high quality AGM deep cycle battery (ex. Lifeline 31T) which are maintenance free and give off no gases. They are safe enough that you can ship them, unlike wet cells. You can buy multiple AGM batteries (they hold a charge much better than wet cell versions) if you are concerned about having enough battery capacity. If you are still entertaining the thought of battery power for your primary, I would recommend against it. First you would need a power inverter of at least 1500 watts (3000 peak), but this would also very quickly drain any battery power vs. using a backup pump designed to operate on a 12v system.

Good points however I doubt there is a normal residence out there that would accept and live with 30 PSI water service.

From Zoeller:
Aquanot I Pump System is designed to maintain a standing battery at full charge by trickling .5 amp. It will not recharge a spent battery after a long power outage. A conventional battery charger must be used to recharge the battery. The battery monitor will once again maintain the battery charge until your pump is needed again.

How many normal homeowners wish to worry about this?

Today, many power outages are lasting more than 12 hours, how do you recharge that battery when there is no power or your not home?

zl700 - you are referring to the Aquanot I. Please check the specs on the Aquanot II model. It is basically the same pump unit, but uses a 25 amp charger....more than enough to maintain and recharge a 12v deep cycle battery. As I said in my first post, you can certainly have additional battery power available to you as well if anyone seeks to have longer coverage time. The nice thing about the Aquanot model is that because it utilizes a long float shaft, you can space the pump cycles further apart. I have a very active pit. We also experience a lot of power outages due to thunderstorms....unlike a winter outage, there can be a very heavy inflow of drainage during storms and the additional pumping capacity is extra insurance vs. a water powered system or weaker 12v battery pump.

Yes I was, sorry so now it can charge it too

I fought a big house fire once when the power was out during an ice storm.

The battery back up sump pump battery failed and ignited basement and traveled up the laundry chute and flashed over on the second floor.

I would never charge a battery, no matter what type in my house!

Some house fires are caused by electrical problems. Does that mean you would never use electricity?

Many municipalities have outlawed water powered pumps. Why? Because when a storm knocks out the electrical power the municipalities pumps are down so they already have a problem maintaining the water supply. Couple to this the fact that at peak performance the water powered pumps consume 1gal of municipal water for each 2gal of storm water they pump out. If the supply pressure to the water powered pumps drops the efficiency drops dramatically.

By example, the Zoeller pump is rated to discharge 6gpm with a 3/4" supply line at 30psi "Dynamic Head". This means that e even if your pump were to work at peak efficiency it would be wasting 3gal of municipal water per minute.

If you check the pump spec sheets you will not that the efficiency drops off very quickly as the supply pressure drops. In fact, at 15psi Dynamic pressure they consume 2gal of municipal water for ever 1gal of storm water they pump out.

NOTE THAT THE SPEC IS CALLING FOR DYNAMIC PRESSURE not static head pressure. When you attach a gage on a faucett and measure you supply pressure, that is static head pressure (the pressure that is present when no flow is occurring). Dynamic Head Pressure is the working line pressure when flow is occurring.

I would bet a months pay that not one in 100 homes has a sufficient municipal supply system to insure 30psi dynamic pressure into a 3/4" outlet.

Even the plumbing codes address this very problem, by example, the IRC requires all structures to have a minimum static head pressure of 35psi however the minimum Dynamic head pressure for a bathtub or shower is only 8psi. With the advent of temp controlled shower mixers the codes were amended requiring 20psi dynamic head to the mixer and many bathrooms have to undergo a complete re-piping during a rehab to get the required 20psi pressure.

Your calculations are correct on the outputs. Take a physical look though at the inlets of the units. While the connections are " to allow ease and full flow, after that look at the restriction caused at the fittings, housing and backflow on the water units. It is rare, that a house canÂt maintain 35 PSI with 8-10 GPM IMO.

If a municipality requires a pump to handle waste water, I have yet to see one that does not have backup power to run them. Without that, there would be a tremendous amount of claims against them for sewage backups. Just because power goes out, that doesnÂt stop people from flushing toilets and bathing, think about it, they have.

So you waste $0.014 a gallon on occasion to keep your house/basement dry with a water powered sump pump. What does it cost to purchase, charge, maintain a charge, replace battery after its normal life cycle, and find temporary power to recharge battery on extended power outages with a battery backup system?

I would venture to say the ROI of the higher priced battery backup system never outweighs the lower priced water system with the water used.

Quote;" It is rare, that a house cant maintain 35 PSI with 8-10 GPM IMO."

To your credit you did qualify that statement by stating it is your "Opinion", however you present no factual evidence to support that claim, and based upon the evidence presented in numerous posts it is evident that you are not a plumber, nor have you had any formal training in the plumbing field.

Now here are a few facts to support my "professional opinion" as a Master Plumber,

In order to maintain consistent water pressure municipal water suppliers first use electric pumps to pump the water up into water towers or in mountainous regions they use ground-mounted tanks installed at higher elevations. They then use gravity as the propelling force in the municipal water mains. A standing column of water produces 0.434psi per vertical foot thus the municipal water supplier erects water towers that are at least 94 from the bottom of the tank to the horizontal water line supplying the community, this will produce a minimum of 94x 0.434psi/ft = 40.79psi static head pressure from the base of the tank to the ground. The tanks on the top of tower are then 50 to 75 high, which produces another 21.7psi to 32.5psi so depending upon how full the tank may be at any given moment. The static head pressure may range from 40psi to 72.5psi approximately. Understanding that even comparatively flat terrain is not really flat, it then stands that the actual pressures at any given point in the municipal infrastructure might vary dependant upon whether the municipal main rises or drops from the mean average depth. With than in mind, the International Residential code requires that we install a boost pump if the static head pressure to a structure is less than 40psi. Under the Uniform Plumbing code a boost pump is not required unless the average static head pressure is below 15psi. Under both codes if the maximum static head pressure exceeds 85psi we are required to install a PRV (pressure reducing valve). Keep in mind that this code minimum is for static head pressure at the structure service main, which is the pressure when the water is at rest. The moment any valve or faucet is opened the water pressure to that fixture drops to "Dynamic Head Pressure", which is the initial static head pressure, less vertical static head loss and pipe friction loss and fitting loss. (pipe friction loss must be computed from the point of discharge back to the municipal main). In addition, pipe friction loss increases dramatically as the velocity of flow increases.

Now when you consider that probably 60% of all residential structures in America today still have the code minimum ¾" supply line from the municipal main to the structure, and considering the losses it is almost a guarantee that they cannot maintain a 35psi dynamic head pressure into a ¾" fixture at any point in the structure. Especially when we consider that an overwhelming number of those residential service lines are 40 to 50 year old severely corroded galvanized pipe, not to mention that those structures that are under the UPC are only required a 15psi static head pressure to start with. So once again, in my professional opinion as a master plumber I doubt that 1 house in 100 could produce the necessary 35psi dynamic pressure required to operate the pump at peak operation

Now let us consider the volume of water they water powered pumps consume.

The overall mean average for residential water consumption is 300gal/day and the municipal water tanks must be able to provide sufficient water for a 24hour period, thus they determine how many residential structures may be supplied from the tank by dividing the total volume of the tank by 300gal.

On the other hand, you yourself pointed out that the water-powered pumps can consume as much as 10gpm. Allowing 60minutes per hour, it is then consuming 10gpm x 60min/hr =600gal/hr. This means that a single water powered pump will consume a volume of water every hour equal to the daily requirements of 2 residential structures. If that pump were to run for 24 hours it would consume a volume of water equal to the amount needed to supply 48 houses in the same 24 hour period. Keep in mind that it is using water stored in the water tower, and while the power is out the municipality is unable to refill the tower. Needless to say, it would not take too many water-powered pumps to cause a serious problem with the water supply during a period of electrical power outage.

It is true that most municipal water suppliers do have an emergency contingency, whether they have a backup generator, a diesel powered pump or as is done in some small rural communities, they use a fire truck to refill the tanks, however these systems are extremely small in comparison to the volume of water that can be pumped by the electric pumps that work off commercial power. In most communities these emergency systems are hard pressed to even maintain a minimal water supply when all the residents are conserving water during the emergency.

It is for these reasons that many communities have outlawed water powered pumps. In my community they not only outlawed them, anyone who is caught using one will be fined $5,000.

WASHINGTON, D.C. - In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product
Safety Commission (CPSC), Sta-Rite Industries Inc., of Delavan,
Wis., is voluntarily recalling about 29,000 battery chargers used in
battery back-up sump pump systems. The battery chargers can overheat
and ignite, melting the charger housing and posing a fire hazard.

Sta-Rite has received seven reports of battery chargers overheating
or catching fire. Four incidents have involved smoke or fire damage
to homes, confined to the immediate area of the charger. No injuries
have been reported.

The recalled battery chargers are used in the "Flotec" and "Sears"
back-up sump pump systems. The sump pump system is used to remove
water from homes that have basements. This recall involves the
charger only, not the sump pump. Consumers can identify whether the
sump pumps battery charger is being recalled by checking the sump
pump system model number. The Flotec system is model number
FP2000DCC-02 or 2P667B and the Sears system is model number
390.306062. The brand name and model number can be found on the pump
model plate located on the pump. The part number on the charger is
PS17-77 and can be found below the meter on the charger. Sta-Rite
will help consumers determine if the battery charger is part of this
recall.

Large and small home centers, auto parts and plumbing supply stores,
including Sears, W.W. Grainger, Advanced Auto Parts, Home Quarters,
Home Depot, and Hechinger sold the sump pump systems nationwide from
December 1994 through September 1997 for about $200. The battery
chargers also were sold as a replacement part for the sump pump
systems for about $130.

Consumers should stop using the sump pumps with the recalled battery
charger immediately. Consumers can receive a free replacement battery
charger by calling the Sta-Rite Consumer Assistance Hotline toll-free
at (800) 845-6541 anytime.

Lazypup,

"Now when you consider that probably 60% of all residential structures in America today still have the code minimum ¾" supply line from the municipal main to the structure"

Fact or professional opinion, Where is your proof?

"Especially when we consider that an overwhelming number of those residential service lines are 40 to 50 year old severely corroded galvanized pipe"

Fact or professional opinion, Where is your proof?

"It is for these reasons that many communities have outlawed water powered pumps"

Fact or professional opinion, Where is your proof?

"If that pump were to run for 24 hours it would consume a volume of water equal to the amount needed to supply 48 houses in the same 24 hour period"

Fact or professional opinion, Where is your proof?

"So once again, in my professional opinion as a master plumber I doubt that 1 house in 100 could produce the necessary 35psi dynamic pressure required to operate the pump at peak operation"

Fact or professional opinion, Where is your proof?
What sort of neighborhood do you live/work in?

Example, I just filled my pool with two wide open hoses, 14 to 16 GPM total and suffered no pressure loss in my house.

I have to disagree. Most suburban and city homes have more than sufficient water pressure and water flow rate to operate a Basepump. It comes in three sizes and is safe for use in residential and commercial applications. Municipalities need to get with the new technology of these water powered systems. They are safe and efficient. With battery chargers and batteries and the inherent dangers and subsequent waste disposal of spent batteries, a water powered system uses no energy and wastes nothing at all. The water used to run it simply goes back into the storm system, just like the rain water, and re-enters the water system clean and free. A battery system uses energy even when it is not running, just to keep the battery charged. It requires constant maintenance, and poses a hazardous waste problem at time of replacement. Sure, a water powered system borrows water from the system for short times when it is in use, but it uses nothing when it is off, and it is off most of the time. I have had a Basepump in my home for almost ten years. I live in Buffalo, NY and it has kept my basement dry through several stretches of more than three days of power failure, and once more than 6 days. I had no noticeable difference in my water bill and it certainly ran often enough since this was all during a freeze/thaw period when the sump pumps were going strong.

I can see merit in both arguments and have used/worked with gel cell batteries for many years with no issues but it's good to be reminded of the risks of gas discharge from some batteries.

I have to disagree that a water-powered system uses no energy...a great deal of time energy and money goes into providing municipal water and it's a resource that is becoming more and more scarce, and I imagine the water powered system is less than efficient. Most experts believe wars will be fought over water rights in the near future.

As I said I can see merit in both arguments, during extended disaster situations municipal water could easily be interrupted, leaving you with no sump pump at all, if the sewage system was experiencing issues you could have sewage backup, and at times of crisis low water pressure could be a problem for everyone.

A battery backup model and/or a generator gives you a modicum of control over it whereas with water power you're at the mercy of external forces.

That being said it's clean and quiet and ready to go (I assume you're supposed to test them) and might be a good adjunct but as a person who's lived in droughts in dry countries, it seems an awful waste of water. It is true, however that maintaining and replacing those batteries is not going to be without cost and pollution.

If I needed a sump pump I might be tempted to have all three or at least electric with backup and the water as a fallback....

A building I had an office in had a sump in the lowest parking lot floor, I don't know if there was power backup but there was something like 7 pumps to provide some redundancy.