I don't know if you are aware, but there has been a new forum created here at That HomeSite titled, "Animal Debates" that is designed specifically to discuss and debate issues such as this. You might want to take this topic over to that forum.

Laurie

I guess we can safely say Laurie doesn't want to talk about this.

I think the problem is people don't know or haven't bothered to learn about how to raise pets so they are not fearful or shy or aggressive towards others... humans and animals. Plain and simple. So when they wind up with a grown dog that is no fun to be anywhere near then they scratch their heads... I wonder what went wrong? Surely keeping him tied to a stake in the backyard will teach him to be sociable to others.

Oh and they just assume they "got a bad one" and sometimes drop them off at the animal shelter.

I never heard of the animal debates forum.( I never went there but I'm sure there are heated discussions ) I didn't want to debate the issue ...I'm just trying to figure it out. I blame the owners .. I just can't figure out why they let this happen to their pets. Why would someone want a pet that could bite ? I'm clueless - I want my pets to be friendly . Any advice ?

I don't think this is a debate either. I don't think anyone can argue with it! Watch you go over to the animal debates forum and they kick you out saying it's not a debate and where you aware there is a "pets" forum?

my chihuahuas not mean, he`s just misunderstood, he has issues from his puppyhood. a napoleon complex.

The little dog syndrome ~~~ LOL

One guy in my neighborhood "rescues" mean animals from euthanasia. So the rest of us have to avoid him like the plague when he takes his vicious dogs for a walk. I think he really believes they are "good" animals who have been given a bad rap. His latest acquisition attempted to bite my girlfriend when we were on a walk (she did not attempt to pet or gain it's attention) and I told her that the dog should have been put down long ago. Sooner or later, the dog will bite and will meet it's inevitable demise.

I have a min-pin and I say she has delusions of Great Dane...
She did actually run a couple of pit-bulls off the property when they were snooping by the chicken-house, methinks they didn't know exactly what they were dealinbg with - sorry, a bit off topic, but couldn't resist

Ok...I take offense to the "I think the problem is people don't know or haven't bothered to learn about how to raise pets so they are not fearful or shy or aggressive towards others... Humans and animals." posted by quirky.

I had a border collie and no matter what we did, that poor boy was mean, mean, mean! I treated him no differently while he was a puppy then any other dog I had raised. I didn't hit him, I walked him around other animals and people, let him play with humans and other animals as much as possible...everything we did by the book. I had 3 different books on border collies, my niece was/is a respectable BC breeder who helped me with him. My vet and trainer conferred about him together. Vet told me it would be better if he was just put to sleep.
He was just a mean dog, he bit, he nipped and growled even at us! He trained easily to sit, stay etc...but any chance he got to bite, growl or snarl at someone, he would! He chased a girl down the street and into her front porch! Thankfully he had a muzzle on as we went no where with out that muzzle! He jumped over our six foot fence to chase her too!

After exhausting all avenues we gave him to a farmer who had many years experience with border collies. Thinking that the space of the farm and the more experienced hand of the man would do him well. Even he had problems with him biting and finaly did put him to sleep.

So I guess if I am reading you correctly, it was MY fault that no matter what we did, he still was mean??? This dog was 2 years old when we finally gave him up to the farmer. We had been working with him since he was about 5 months old to curb the biting and growling.

My personal opinion is that there are a few just plain mean animals. I took all the precautions I could with mine and it is irresponsible for people not to. I understand that some people think it's funny or cute to have a mean pet. But you shouldn't generalize us all as stupid ignoramuses who couldn't care less about the animals or their training.

There are different reasons why some people keep mean animals.

Some people keep them as guard dogs or whatever.

But I think you were talking more about the biting pet. And I think some people actually love their pets and consider them part of the family... so its really hard to just "get rid of them" because they have a behavior problem. And not all behavior problems can be corrected by proper training.

Well, I can't speak about dogs -- but I have also wondered the same thing about cats (and I love cats!). I have know several unfriendly, nasty, mean cats in my lifetime. They really can't be much fun to have around -- who wants a pet that doesn't appreciate and love them? Then again, there are cats were appear mean to people but really only love their owner (that is common in cats that don't see a lot of people besides their owner). Anyhow, I guess the difference with cats is that the mean ones are unapproachable but, if you leave them alone, they will usually leave you alone.

Cats need to be properly socialized when they are kittens including being exposed to different people, noise, touching etc... Cats that aren't will usually be skittish and in the worst case, mean.

PS: my friend has a lovely white American Eskimo that she locks up whenever company is over because she doesn't trust the dog. Having this dog also means that she can never have a babysitter at her house and go out for the evening. Fun way to spend the next 12 years.

I agree with the earlier poster who said some animals are nasty by nature. They can also have brain damage or chemical imbalances that cause aggressiveness. My neighbor's sweet dog developed a brain tumor and began attacking her owners.

In most cases, though, I think a lot of people don't understand how important it is for them to be their dog's pack leader. When the dog reaches that crucial point in growing up where he suddenly looks at them and growls a challenge when they come near his food or his toys, they back away and don't correct it.

Once the dog gets away with this and becomes leader in his own mind, they don't know what to do about it but don't have the heart to put him down. He ends up ruling the family for the rest of his life.

I had one dog who established himself as above my kids in the pack hierarchy. He was an angel if I was around but would bite them right in the face for no reason if I wasn't. A professional trainer told me that unless my four year old could learn to discipline the dog for this himself, there wasn't much hope of stopping the biting.

I tried to work with him and keep him from being alone with the kids, but eventually he nipped a neighbor's child and we made the decision to rehome him with people who had no small kids and lived in the country (with full disclosure of his problems, of course).

to livvysmom - Good point about the babysitter. Hadn't thought of it from that angle.

to quirkyquercus - some of us have rescued pets that have been abused and have biting and stranger issues not the other way around. I have one that will bite and I let anyone know who comes in contact with her that she will bite them. Not that she might, that she will. That way there are no misunderstandings. The UPS lady loves to stick her hand out despite the million times I ask her not to. Fortunately, my old gal is more of a barker than a biter, but I don't want to chance her biting someone. We once had a family for a picnic in the summer. Their youngest boy kept sticking his arm through the gate of the pool in a teasing type behavior. My dogs swim but not when we have guests. Well, the old gal grabbed his arm. She didn't break the skin - she gave a warning. It worked. I was so upset and worried about my friends. Parents knew the child provoked the behavior. If she were really mean should could have chewed the kid's arm off before we could have gotten them apart, her being on the other side of the gate. When friends come with kids we used to put her away. Finally after working at our house with our trainer, we taught her to take the cue from us regarding people who come into our home. Trainer told us to make a big deal about talking to the old gal like "isn't it great that little Tommy is visiting". Said dog was picking up on my anxiety about having her around children. So not all of us give up on a dog that was mistreated as a puppy by some misguided idiot who thought having a puppy was so cute with not a thought as to the committment that came with it.

Some dogs just can't be helped by trainer or owner and sadly have to be put down. Sometimes life stinks.

Then again, there are cats were appear mean to people but really only love their owner (that is common in cats that don't see a lot of people besides their owner).

That describes my cat to a T. We got her when we were in college and were too busy studying to be too social, and we didn't socialize her enough (and we suspect that she was a feral kitten already at about 8 weeks; she was very, very skittish around people in general and took years to warm up to us). She likes us well enough, but woe to anyone else that attempts to touch her. We warn anyone that visits us to not touch her, and I'm sure they wonder why we keep her -- but again, she likes US! :)

There was a dog at work who at age 2, for no reason whatsoever, became vicious. Absolutely, positively, unapproachably horrible biter, to everyone including his owners. Like a switch was flipped from nice to mean. We consulted a boarded behaviorist about the dog, and she said that it can happen. Usually male dog, usually neutered at ~6 months, appropriate socialization, training, and upbringing and they just suddenly become mean. She said she used to try to work with people, but hasn't had much success and recommends euthanasia because these dogs are downright dangerous. The client in this case did euthanize the dog after about a week, hoping maybe the problem would go away.

We had another client and for the life of me I don't understand them. They brought a terrible horrible evil mean biting cocker mix from the shelter, on death row. I have no idea why they wanted THAT dog. Anyway, before they even took it home they brought it to the vet to be checked out. Lucky me was the only tech on duty at that time. They had him in a carrier and couldn't get him out because he kept growling. OK, maybe he's cage-protective I say, and suggested that I could put the carrier on the table and open it from the top. Fine. Did that.

Dog tried to eat my face. Literally. I immediately put him down on the floor and he tried to jump up and eat my face. He was relentless, jumping and attacking me. Thank Gog he still had on the leash that the shelter had on him because he wouldn't let them take that off either. I used it to hold the dog away from me while I put the carrier back on the floor, dragged him into it, and slammed the lid back on.

The owners saw what happened. I hadn't done a THING to the dog. They said he was scared. I said take him back to the shelter. They said he'd be killed. I said good. Only time I've ever said that, and I meant it too.

They saw our aforementioned boarded behaviorist and refused to do anything she suggested. She had recommened anxiolytic drugs and a Nothing in Life is Free program. Also to feed him separately in a different room because he was incredibly resource-protective, that kind of thing. I have no idea what their deal was, thought it was "mean" to make a dog sit before they fed it and to "drug" the dog (it was suffering needlessly from severe anxiety- it NEEDED drugs and ws cruel to keep him without drugs IMHO). As far as I know they still own this piece of crap. They can't pet him at all, can't take him for walks outside, has to go in their yard separate from their other dog, has to be kept separatly from their other dog (meaning wife is in one room of the house with the evil one and husband is in another room with the nice dog- can't be good for a marriage), if anyone comes over to the house they have to cage him, he's sent the woman to the ER 2 times last time I heard, and he has to be presented to our clinic heavily sedated AND muzzled, and sometimes we still can't do a thing with him.

All this time, they could have ended that dog's suffering, and I do believe that living with that level of anxiety is suffering greatly, and rescued a really nice shelter dog from death. I simply don't understand why they have that dog. He's never going to be a good pet for anyone, he's a danger to have around, and they didn't even try to implement a plan that may have made him OK (I doubt it though). They say that they are against animal suffering and couldn't euthanize it, but that dog is beyond miserable and they won't help it. I don't get it at all, and I told them that I wouldn't work with it ever again. Meant it too. Boss OK with that.

I can understand people who have pets that are nice to the owner and nobody else. 99% of the time, the pet is just with the owner, so 99% of the time the pet is great. As long as the owner takes appropriate precautions when the pet has to be around other people, it's fine with me. Even though I get my butt kicked by such animals on a regular basis at work. I'm the person, and I've got my ways. I love some chemical restraint is all I'm saying.

I guess my answer to the original question, "why do people keep mean animals" is the same for all "why do people do that" questions- because people are stupid.

Mean animals deserve to live a good life too, just as people do. Many "mean" animals are misunderstood, or have been neglected or abused, it is possible they live in pain and are not getting any pain control - my dog gets snappy when he is in pain. I think it is all a matter of perception and patience when it comes to any animal

Truly mean animals are dangerous, and should not be kept as pets. Since it is cruel to leave them out in the wild, being domesticated and all, euthanasia is more humane. Some dogs and cats can never be rehabilitated. Not saying that one shouldn't try, as you don't know until then, and of course after a thorough workup to determine that the animal isn't in pain. But there are only very few people who are willing and able to take on a truly mean animal and can do so safely. Unfortunately that means the rest get euthanized.

I don't believe that truly mean animals are happy. I believe they live in a constant state of fear, and the best thing that can happen to them is relief of suffering. I'm not talking about the grouchy arthritic dog- obviously he needs pain control and isn't truly mean. I'm talking like with the evil cocker I described above, or with the "lightswitch" dogs. These animals cannot have a good life because of their fear/aggression.

It's sad because we the people brought on their existence through bad breeding practices, and it is the animal that suffers.

Most animals that have been abused or neglected can be rehabbed and may make wonderful pets. You can work with certain fears and aggressions. I took the "mean" animal to be one that has a severe personality defect. You can't change the basic personality of an animal, though you may be able to modify the behavior to an acceptable level.

Check this out.

This is an extreme example of what happens when things with a mean and probably once-mistreated animal goes extremely wrong.

Here is a link that might be useful: Very sad story

Schoor... Was it your fault? I don't know. I don't have all the answers but you shouldn't be offended because I was referring to people who don't make an effort.
Maybe it was not the right setting for that breed. Being a independant thinker/herding dog with high excercise requirements. Something with the lineage perhaps. Who knows. But what I MEANT was a very large percentage of pet owners do not do things by the book. They haven't even opened a book, turned on the computer or gone to workshops. I have a herding breed too and I was warned not to get this breed by the others that have these dogs because they are challenging to manage and they have very long hair which I groom daily. I'm doing everything I can to succeed with this breed or so I think. Could it turn out like your experience with the border collie? I suppose anything is possible. Not as high of a chance of that happening as with people who do not do the socialization, training, excercise.... I walked the dogs today in cold and rain with no umbrella or rain coat as cars whizzed by spraying mist. You think most people are fulfilling the needs of their herding dogs? Why is it I pass by 11 yards every day on our walk where the dogs live outside and never, not once is there a human there even interacting with them. Half of those yards there isn't even a fence!

I do have a neighbor who has two little somethings. Everytime those dogs are outside (and oddly enough they live inside) one of the dogs barks and when we go over to the dog & owner the dog will start growling. Owner (nice lady) says this dog is so mean, but she admits he hasn't had much, if any socialization. I invite her dogs to play with mine in my fenced yard. For the longest time she said no for fear that her dog would bite mine. Then one day she agreed to it. I promised I wouldn't hold her responsible and it will be good for her dog to run free and play. So what happens? The dogs have a blast. The growling stopped. He still barks but he doesn't act scared like he used to. I tell her to stop by anytime. Pay visits frequently. Make some effort.

quirkyquercus - That was really nice of you to help your neighbor out with her dog. I bet she is truly grateful to have a dog who is now more socialized, and I bet the dog is alot happier too. We should all take a lesson about helping rather than complaining. Thank you for reminding me that there are some really kind hearted people in this world.

Well I'm not saying I healed the world. LOL y'all are giving me too much credit. Its just that those dogs never got out. Now with regular visits from the two extra furry dogs from a couple houses down he has improved from what I gather. I invite everyone I see with a dog to come over to my yard. I never get any takers. I thought about sending out invitations to neighborhood dog owners to celebrate the new grass and bring over their dogs to have a puppy party but who am I kidding. Nobody would come.

I can honestly say I think 99.9% of "mean" or "dangerous" dogs CAN be rehabilitated. I know of people who rehab them. It takes alot of time and alot of energy and dedication and you need to know what you are doing. Not many people are willing to put the time and energy into an animal like that, which is too bad. Too many creatures in our society of disposable pets and life being meaningless to so many people are unnecessarily put down.

Well, here's my 2cents
I have had two aggressive dogs in my life. Spent a small fortune in their training and obedience. They were not puppies, but about 2 years old, respectfully.
Now, I had to learn alot more of obedience training than I wanted to know. We had to come up to our part too.
After that I always got puppies from the get go. My husband and I are not trainers, and we are pretty laid back, so for us we want a lover not a fighter. Laid back dog. We look for the laziest puppy then we do a couple of test to see how the puppies temperment is. One of our friends who breeds doxies showed us this method. Well, now I am not saying this will happen everytime, but we have been fortunate so far. We sit down and look for the laid back puppy, then we take him out and put him away from us,call him, if he comes that is a plus. Then we pick him up by the scruff and if he doesn't yelp, that's a plus. If he seems calm when you hold him, that's a plus. Now this works if you are looking at healthy puppies and you know it, as a sick puppy will be rather laid back. We have three laid back dogs, the most aggressive is our Doxie, and he just wants to lick everyone to death. I have put a stop to that recently with bitter apple. Ha,Ha. We just wanted companions and that's about it. Our aussie does work our livestock, but she wouldn't win any competitions. Oh, we did get our aussie at 2 years old, but she was an outcast show dog as her temperament was too soft. (too laid back) I am just not the type to work with aggressive dogs nor do I want to learn how.

Where did the 2-year old dogs come from? Shelter?