Would you do it, WITH disposal, for the price he is charging? [tear out] We charge $165. to tear out a kitchen, and I think that's cheap.
remember, tools, expertise, efficiency, all are important. How much trim is involved? How complex is it overall?

I have to agree! Good work costs good money. I put together a free site where you can learn about how to shop for cabinetry. I used to be a kitchen designer (for about 20 years). Prices are somewhat negotiable, but the price is not the most important factor at all.

Here is a link that might be useful: How to shop for kitchen cabinetry

The cabinets are a commodity - you can shop around and try to get a better price bearing in mind you aren't always shopping apples to apples. Sometimes there will be sales or promotions running that can bring the price down. I work in a cabinet shop and the mark up we use is to cover our costs and overhead and with the economy the way it is, we are charging the absolute minimum that we can so in our case the price would not be negotiable. I think in the hay day the mark up was much higher and there would have been more negotiability.

The kitchen design and the installation are not commodities and partly you have to use your gut to determine if you are in good hands but I think it is helpful to ask friends/family who they have used and how things turned out.

Trying to save money can sometimes cost you more in the end. A good GC is worth paying for. Same for the kitchen designer -- Good luck

Thanks! I am not debating paying them - just trying to make sure the pricing is reasonable. For example, I saw a post from a cabinet dealer stating that 39% of List Price is a fair price (allowing profit for the KD) for 6 Square cabinets. I would like to talk with the KD about a markup in that range - versus something higher.

As to the GC - separate person. I am just trying to gaugue what is a good price for demolition and installation of cabinets (not including other electrical and structural work, which has been quoted separately). I am not questioning paying for good work - just trying to determine what is reasonable / what I should expect.

use the ikea.com site to see what a bare cabinet costs.

Um, a real kitchen dealer is NOT going to reveal their actual markup to you. (Daveinorlando is NOT a real dealer, he just plays one on TV) And different dealers in different locations will have different overheads and distances from the factory and thus different markups. You are out in left field trying to think about comparing something from that angle.

Your best bet is to develop a good relationship with a designer that carries several different lines of cabinets. Your design can be put into the cabinet line that fits your budget without you having to comparison shop for months at a time.

I personally would not be keen on someone telling me how to do my pricing. You are free to walk and find someone else to buy from but I personally think telling the KD what a fair price is as opposed to what they've already quoted may put them on the defensive. Just my opinion.

Thanks all. Mamadadapaige - that's why my question is IF cabinet prices are negotiable? Like I said - we are new to this. If I can/should be negotiating, I want to. I don't want to tell him how to price, but I do want to ensure I don't pass up any opportunity to negotiate. Obviously, I also don't want to insult him. I'm not looking to shop around more, I am happy with his service, but neither do I want to be completely naive if negotiating is possible.

rdw, I understand - didn't want to make you feel bad, just telling you how it might sound to him... There are promotions and sales that come up from time to time - you could ask to be notified if there is a sale anytime soon.

Hollysprings is 100% right on. At the place I work we carry several different lines - some include freight, some don't - different multipliers for each. Taking it even further you may find two different cabinet shops selling the same brand but charging differently because of overhead or personnel costs. If a showroom has invested in new displays or has salespeople who accompany you to granite yards, tile shops, checks in regularly on the job site, etc. they may have a higher markup than a shop selling on a Drop Ship basis.

HTH

You can't help but be naive if you don't shop around. There is a great variance in pricing between lines, between dealers, and in service, etc.

My installation, of cabinetry only, is about 10% of the cost of the cabinets. My demo was done by a GC, but keep in mind if you need a dumpster, it can be pricey. My 10x18 kitchen with plaster walls was gutted in 4 hours by 4 men. I don't think the $165 figure above is reasonable, at least not for my area.

Everything is negotiable. Of course, you shouldn't be rude about it, and I agree with the people pointing out you can't pay for Spam and get caviar.

Bearing that in mind, I think that in any transaction where you're buying something that doesn't have a price tag stuck on it, it's perfectly reasonable to ask if a particular vendor can offer you a better price. I would just say "That's a little more than we planned to spend; can you discount that price?"

The objective should never be to screw the other party over -- everybody loses if they lose money on you, because you're guaranteed to get poor or no service. But if you can get better pricing, which might make you more likely to come back to that person when you remodel other parts of your house, or recommend them to others, it should be a win-win.

I agree that getting multiple quotes will give you a better idea of what's "reasonable."

And, a little tangential, but $165 to demo a kitchen sounds like a steal. I demo'd my kitchen myself, it took about 5 days - and we paid more than $165 just for the dumpster. I would have been happy to pay $165 to have someone else do it.

I love to negotiate, but I don't do it every time. I start with this question...

"Is that the best you can do?"

Nothing too pushy, just gets the conversation going.

$165 to demo a kitchen - is that the total?? My G.C. gave me as estimate of $4,600 for demo alone. My kitchen is 17 x 14. I guess I need to shop around!

I was going to say what taggie said (except I'm a great negotiator LOL) and yet I still use that clean line..."Is this the best you can do" and then shut up! If you stammer, wont' look them in the eyes or say something like "can I get it cheaper with changes etc" you screw the effect up.

They will either come back with a straight "Yes" or they will say they have room for x down, or they will offer you a different line, changes in your existing choices etc. If they offer changes, be sure to say "AS IS" Is this the best you can do? Then when they respond, you need to politely say "I need to think about this" and walk out the door. No I'll talk to hubby, wife, etc...I need to think about it in a firm but polite voice and walk out. Think about it and know that they offered what they feel they can offer and take it or not.

That said, I paid 30 grand less for apples to apples cabinets (my design, my specs, two dealers, same brand, same options to the last nail). I asked the second dealer "Is that the best you can do" and she paused...pausing is always the opening of the weak :P

In the end we spent 30 grand less and loved working with a much better person. I actually wouldn't have worked with the other one involved because I hated her :) But the gal who did get the job made a good profit. Her answer to my question was someting to the effect of "we can probably shave something here and there on the price...can I get back with you tomorrow?"

Thanks, all! I do appreciate the advice! Mamadadapaige - thanks for the advice (and explanation)!

I am comparing GC quotes. I will look again at what I have to see how they stack up.

Seems like it can't hurt to ask the KD (and GC) if it's the best they can do. If the answer is yes, then it's up to me to decide what to do.

Thanks!

There's a difference in asking for someone's best price and trying to haggle like you're buying a brass lamp in a bazaar. Professionals do not mind passing along tips as to how to reduce your price or when manufacturer's promos will begin, or even slightly discounting their margin if you are a repeat customer. But, there has to actually be some fat to cut in the first place. There's a big difference in someone who's doing a small kitchen at 6K or a larger kitchen at 60K. $5900 might be the "best" price for the former, while $58,000 might be the best price for the latter.

But, the first stop is to take their advice on how to cut the price, not asking them to drop their fees.

It might help to come up with a budget for the main materials....for example if your budget is $25,000 it might break down to $10,000 for cabinets, $5,000 for counter and BS, 8,000 for appliances, $2,000 for flooring. If your cabinets come in at $12,000, then you adjust elsewhere. Shop around and get several quotes for like cabinets. I suppose there is room for negotiation, but if you deal with reputable companies it shouldn't be necessary. Ask when the cabinet company will be having a promotion. My cabinet dealer volunteered this information,if he hadn't I would not have known the difference and he could have pocketed the $700 I saved. Personally, I don't like haggling. If I'm not happy with the price quoted or it's out of budget, I look elsewhere.

drachiele, I went to your web site to get some good information as you suggested. Most of it seems to be common sense, but what got my curiosity up is what it led to, the selling of Rachiele sinks?

I come back here, and JUST noticed your name! Are you affiliated with Rachiele sinks? Your GW username and the leading to Rachiele website had me curious.

Also, are those kitchens on the web site designs of your own or someone elses? I am particularly interested in one, if you have any information on it I would like to get in touch with the company, or you, if it was done by yourself.

I've heard rave reviews on here about Rachiele sinks, I truly hope that company didn't use a tactic to what I felt *tricked* into going to. I find that a little distasteful. But, I take your word, to others, don't go there expecting a lot of new information.

I see you've been contributing for a long time.

Didn't realize the owner was also a KD.

I'm sure you can see why I was a little skeptical, we get a lot of trolls coming by trying to sell things.

I AM interested in one of those kitchens though!

Susie, yes I am the owner of Rachiele sinks. I don't hide that fact. I put that website together to "give back" . I had over 20 wonderful years as a kitchen designer and found that most of my customers were genuinely confused about how to shop for cabinetry. Even back then, I was just as concerned about my potential customers getting a bad deal as I was getting the sale. All too often, I saw people doing things that would insure a poor investment. Being an insider, I felt I could be helpful. The link was in no way to " troll" for sales. Our sales are almost beyond our capacity, so there is no need to do so. I learned long ago that charity is not just giving money, it is giving of ones time. That is why I joined this forum. I have given advice on many occasions with no reference to my company. Locally, I have been working with a local charity since 2003. When one becomes successful financially, it is all too easy to just give money. Money doesn't seem so valuable any more. Time is. So I decided to volunteer my time, a commodity that I have little of. I understand the skeptical feelings. Be assured, my intent was to be helpful. As for the photos on the site, I do not recall where they came from. I put that site together ten years ago. If you have further questions, feel free to email me directly at rachiele@gmail.com. Shopping for cabinets involves good old common sense, as you mentioned. Sadly I found most folks didn't use it. They always seemed to want "the best price". A slick kitchen designer can always leave unnoticeable things out of the design to lower a price. I found there were three key elements in insuring a good investment. Find a reputable company, a designer that you trust, and a product that you are comfortable with. When I designed kitchens and was asked to lower my price my answer was always NO. I believed I was giving the best product and the best service at the best price I could, so lowering my price was like giving money away. No one does that unless the other person is in need. That being said, there were times I could see that a family was at the end of their financial rope and I did lower my price, but I never let them know that. I did so because I could afford to do so and I saw it as a charitable effort, not a negotiated discount. Best of luck on your venture. Dino