racket...yeah, my old Sony projector has BNC Y Pb Pr and BNC composite as well as S-video and VGA. It's a 10 year old projector and times have changed. When we built our house 12 years ago I didn't have the foresight to install conduit to pull the latest cables of the time, so I had to sacrifice my BNC composite cable to pull the Cat6 cables (you need 2 for the HDMI baluns). I would have just pulled an HDMI cable if I had enough space in the 1/2" holes I drilled in the ceiling joists before dry wall...but as you know the connectors on HDMI cables are larger than 1/2" alone, plus a good quality 25' HDMI cable is pretty stiff. So instead, I had to spend $79 just for the baluns...that was painful when I could have a high quality 25' 24 ga. certified CL2 HDMI cable for less than $40.

The HDMI balun option was a last resort and I only use baluns to run video when a dedicated cable will not do the job either due to run length or cable size. You can actually run just about any video signal over Cat5/6 with the right baluns. From my experience in the last few years, the baluns are typically 3-4x the cost of the actual cable....I'm talking affordably priced high quality cables from the likes of blue jeans or monoprice...this is not the forum for cable debates so I'll stop before I go down that rathole.

Personally, I think local storage of movies and music is going to be an artifact in the wave of low cost streaming devices on the market today and on the near horizon. I bought our blu-ray players for less than $100 and we use their streaming capability almost exclusively via Netflix and Pandora. Netflix's HD movie libraray is growing quickly and the video quality is fine on a 60" display or smaller (it's better than most DVD's but not as good as blu-ray) All of this for $8.99 / month for Netflix plus the cost of broadband internet and of course a decent home network system capable of both wireless N and giga-switching capability to deliver ethernet to each room in the house. Wireless HD streaming is still hit and miss even on wireless N so ethernet remains the only reliable option from my experience.

The only time we use blu-ray is in the theater or on the rare occasion that Netflix doesn't offer the movie via streaming. The days of DVD are almost gone in our house with the discovery of Netflix streaming (you're wife will even find a very nice selection of yoga DVD's on Netflix that are available for streaming). I would even go so far as to say that the days of DVR's are limited in my opinion...you can find almost any television program on the internet within 24 hours of the live broadcast and most of this is in HD and some are even streamed live.

OK...I'll get off my soap box now. As you can see I have seen the streaming future and the future is now. Being an AV snob, streaming for me in the past was a less than fulfilling experience due to quality of both music and video and reliability of the hardware and streams. I'm here to tell you......those days are gone! I'm listening to my playlist of 80's music right now through grooveshark on a decent stereo rig here in the office and the sound is on par with CD's. Plus, the streaming devices are affordable and easy to use even from across the living room looking at a 34" display my 10 year old has no problem navigating Netflix and Pandora!

Kelly...regarding VGA video quality, your VGA cables will support up to 720p for runs of 30-40 feet and if you have problems, you can invest in a VGA amplifier to extend those runs to more than 100'. You may already have a VGA amplifier if you were running 720p with your current computer setup depending on run lengths. Any resolutions more than 720p on a display less than 60" gets to be a strain on the eyes due to the size of the icons on the screen...especially from 10' away like out by the pool.

Most TV's out there today will support up to 1080p on affordable consumer units some even go higher...my $800 46" 1080p LCD that I'm using right now as I type this is running at 1280 x 720 32 bit color depth and the picture quality is incredible via VGA with a 20' cable...it does not look like rubbish at all. Out of curiosity, I just bumped my display settings to 1920 x 1080 and it worked there as well....the icons on the desktop were very small so I'm back to 1280 x 720 again.

Hope this helps!

At the time my stuff was pretty cutting edge!!!
Now it's extinct.
My setup seems to suck!!! l have to mix between my inputs and outputs to enjoy the best it offers.
#1 is regular composite TV viewing for everything at standard picture quality with a pass through signal.
#3 is 5 BNC cables for UXGA or 3 for component on the DVD player, no pass through.
#4 is the computer, it passes through.
It may not make sense to you guys but I've dealt with the situation for quite a while now.
My units have some great features but they're now outdated.
It may sound confusing but I've dealt with it for a long time.
I'm ready to move forward, LOL!!!
I'm also not asking for much, just a device which will flip my signal upside down so I don't have to hang a bunch of short ugly cables from the top to the bottom of a new replacement display which doesn't offer what my current ones do.
The audio aspects of the system are still better than most people have at home right now, all in all the only bellyache is that Pioneer plasma's don't like being hung from above outdoors at a poolside pavilion in SE Texas.
It's quite a shame that I didn't start a little later when setting up my stuff. My wiring would have been a lot different, this is kind of stuff is what's holding me back too.

At the moment this is really the least of my problems, I deal daily with wife, children, employee's , and all kinds of other drama.

See ya,
Kelly

Just for the record, ParadigmDawg does not have expensive patch cables! All my wires/cables come from MonoPrice and BJC.

I am curious about the displays you guys are running outside as I will add one this summer. I don't want to go with the commercial, outdoor displays secondary to the cost. A LCD or plasma for 800-1k could be considered "disposable" to me if I can get a couple of years out of it.

I know the pros and cons of the two technologies so we don't need to go down that path. I am just wondering if you guys have used regular "indoor" diplays outside and how long they are lasting. It would be covered from the elements but I am sure the moisture issues is what ruins them.

Thoughts?

I have seen a few Samsung LCD sets outside that have been there for 4-5 years and still work.

I second the Samsung LCD vote...but for a different reason related to Kelly's needs. In general, my vote is for LCD technology for outside applications because of low cost, high brightness capability, no screen reflections and pretty decent off-axis capability...not as good as plasma regarding off-axis viewing but the gap is closing quickly these days.

Kelly...check out the Samsung units next time you're in Wal-Mart or Sam's or anywhere else that sells them. I think you will like them because they place their inputs near the top left of the unit rather the bottom of the unit like most displays. This will allow your cable runs from the ceiling to display to be much shorter than the typical install for a cleaner look.

I'm picky about cables to display devices also. Especially applications where they are hung from walls / ceilings. If you look at the picture of my projector above you'll notice a box that I built to hide the cables on my old projector....yes, I'm that picky. The new projector is actually going to be recessed in an alcove and I'll be lowering my ceiling in the back of the theater to make the projector and back surround speakers look like they belong there....all I need is more time and the finish work is time consuming!

Also, if your cables come out of a box in the ceiling, a lot of times extenders can be hidden in those boxes for a clean look and then you just have to manage the look of the run to the back of the TV...the shorter the better!

Regarding your existing cables...you're in good shape. Your BNC connectors can be clipped off the ends of the cables and replaced with RCA connectors that are compatible with today's consumer displays. This is about 5 minute job per connector. Your composite and VGA cables are fine as they are and will plug directly into the TV without problems (if they're long enough).

The smaller Samsungs (42") will need about 12" of cable to get to the inputs and the larger Samsungs will need about 16-18" to get to their inputs assuming the TV is mounted close to the ceiling.

I could recommend video scalers to do the y-flip trick for you but they're in the $500-$800 range and I've never been a big fan of throwing money at a problem when there is a more affordable solution using more commonly available and reliable components.

On the audio side, your setup as you described sounds awesome....especially for an outdoor application!

There is never a good time to jump into AV stuff...it's always changing and obsolescence is a big part of the game (4K video and 3D video will be the new craze in a very short time)...I just wish I would have ran conduit to my display devices around the house 12 years ago when we were building to avoid all the headaches.

Lastly...I sympathize with your comments regarding other priorities in life...most of my projects get done after 9 pm when everyone else in the house is going to sleep. I try not to be too noisy with all the hammering and such but I've heard several times from my wife in the morning "what were you doing down in the basement last night, I heard a lot of noise". The 3 kids all sleep on the 2nd story and don't hear a thing and the next day everyone enjoys the work that I've finished!

The joys of balancing life's priorities!

Hope this helps!

I have seen a few Samsung LCD sets outside that have been there for 4-5 years and still work.

I just went out to take a couple of shots for you guys of how I mounted. This unit is at the NW corner of my pavilion. You can see the condensate on the screen from a SE Texas winter with cold temps and 95% humidity level.
The service guy told me that this is what ruins them. He suggested a cover for them with buttons or a zipper, and then powering them down at the unit and not from the remote. Problem is I'd need to get a ladder everytime I want to enjoy TV or web surfing outdoors.
This, my internet friends, is six nights out of seven for me.
I've placed a bunch of Vizio LCD's into service from Sam's Club and had no problems. I'm thinking like a Vizio 47 or at y'alls suggestion a Samsung with the cable sockets up higher, I still think I'll need some 18 to 24" cables to extend down. My tails are just long enough to reach my sockets. I just hate to lose my clean seamless look that running the cables through my mount offers, there's 10 or 11 cables through the mount arm. so I'll be forced to zip tie them and use some black duct tape to tape them to the back of the unit.
BTW, how 'bout that Cowboy engineering for the mounting to my hip rafter. One galvanized floor flange plus one galvanized street 90 equals one hip fastened flat ceiling mount. Redneck architect's rule, LOL!!!
Do you guys know if those LCD units will allow display and also pass through signal or will it be at the end of the line like mine are on Input 2. These are awesome units and I hate to let them go, they can do many many things a regular TV can't do. But I also hate more the expenses of the repairs

See ya,
Kelly

Kelly...that's a clean install. I admire the flange and elbow idea!

I think the displays we're talking about at Wal-Mart and Sam's will likely not have video pass through at that pricepoint. But, I could definitely be wrong. As the technology trickles down there may be a few out there that do have it just because it was more expensive to remove that option than to keep it.

A quick look on the back of the units before you buy will reveal if there's a video output and a quick read of the owner's manual will tell if it can be configured to meet your needs.

Thanks for sharing the pictures...that's a nice setup you have! The condensation picture shows just how harsh mother nature can be on equipment outdoors. Those Pioneers look awesome with their signature black bezels. I can see why it will be hard to part with them. Maybe they can be deployed to a well-deserved indoor duty to finish their lives while the new LCD regime takes on the outdoor duty!

quote" Maybe they can be deployed to a well-deserved indoor duty to finish their lives while the new LCD regime takes on the outdoor duty! "quote

This is exactly what I planned on doing.
I'm going to take one out of my home office and place it horizontally next to the one in my kids game room, and then take the two from the pavilion and place them beneath these two vertically. I can then go into my menu and direct them to display a single picture on all four. They'll communicate with each other with 4 more cables between them to each other on a special output with a VGA cable. The primary video input monitor will break the signal into 4 quadrants and send the appropriate signal for that quadrant to it's own monitor. This will become a 100 inch plasma with a small plus sign of bezel between. I've seen multi-displays at the mall and the airport like this before and you look right through that grout joint (LOL) when your watching the whole picture.
This is one of the many extra things these monitors will do. Darrin told me that on the Asset Affidavit he got with his Bidders pass at the Delta terminal that they paid 15000 each for those 207 monitors and they were selling only as a Lot. They had some burn back when but now it's only visible on snow white, light yellow, and a light baby blue.
I was blessed with lucky stars that day when I walked into his garage that afternoon and saw 20 plus of them leaning up against the wall. We were building his pool at the time and I bartered 3500 worth of upgrades for them, I tried to get 10 but he'd already dedicated a bunch to his friends and family members.

I figured that I'll just surf the web and find owners manuals or product specifications on these LCD's. 18" jumper cables can't be that much money.

See ya,
Kelly

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?nm_mc=AFC-SlickDeals&cm_mmc=AFC-SlickDeals--NA--NA-_-NA&Item=N82E16889005079&Tpk=N82E16889005079

Plus you get a giftcard for $150 w/ purchase.

I hate to keep moving my replies away from the topic but "What the heck" LOL
I found this monitor for sale on Craigslist, it looks like a good value at 375 of which I'll probably offer 300. This is less than the repairs have come in at in the past.I've already decided to just purchase disposable monitors, but I really need to look for the professional or industrial grade units like this one to keep my features.
I copied these spec's off of Pany's home website.

Professional Series Plasma Displays > TH-42PWD8UK
U.S. List Price $2,095.00
42" Professional Series Plasma Display with up to 8.58 Billion Colors and 4000:1 Contrast Ratio

The TH-42PWD8UK comes standard with PC Input, Audio Input (for PC), Serial Control (RS-232C) Input, BNC Component Video/RGB Input and Audio Input, BNC Composite Video Input, BNC Composite Video Output, S-Video Input, and Audio Input (for Video). There is an available slot for an optional terminal board. Or, you can remove the standard boards and mount up to three optional boards.

Up to 4,000:1 contrast ratio - Real Black Drive System and Deep Black Filter provide deeper, richer blacks and enhances image clarity and realism
Up to 2,048 shades of gradation (4,096 shades via HDMI or DVI connection) - New Advanced Real Gamma System and up to 14-bit signal processing provide superior performance at brightness levels where the human eye sees best
Full time 3.62 billion (maximum 8.52 billion) displayable colors
Up to 15% brighter images - Multi-Facet Asymmetrical Configuration Hyper-Pixel (MACH) Panel features bounded cell structure, new phosphor material, and optimized gas composition ratio to improve light-emitting efficiency and intensity
Up to 60,000-hour panel life - MACH Panel boasts a long service life of 60,000 hours
852 x 480 resolution
1080/60i, 1080/50i, 1080/24p, 1080/24sf, 1080/25p, 1080/30p, 720/60p, 720/50p, 480/60p, 480/60i signal compatibility
VGA, SVGA, XGA, SXGA, UXGA (compressed) PC signal compatibility
16:9 widescreen aspect ratio
Over 160 degree viewing angle
Flexible A/V and IT system configurations - composite, component, RCA, BNC, PC, RGB, SDI, HD-SDI, HDMI, DVI-D w/HDCP, Twisted-Pair Cable, and IEEE 802.11b terminal boards available
Adaptive Gain Control - raises contrast while suppressing noise by detecting and boosting only the image edges, resulting in high contrast and high signal/noise ratio
Motion Picture Noise Disturbance Reduction - detects motion patterns that tend to generate noise and makes adjustments to maximize image quality without diminishing the quality of stationary background objects
3D Color Management System - reproduces vibrant colors and natural skin tones
Active Interlace/Progressive Conversion System - reduces interlace to progressive conversion noise that often occurs when reproducing tiny movements, resulting in better vertical resolution
New Advanced Dual Picture Mode - simultaneously display images from two different sources in Picture And Picture, Picture Out Picture, Picture In Picture, and Video Over PC modes
4x Digital Zoom - divide the screen into zones and enlarge images up to 400%
Built-In Video Wall Processor - set up 2x2, 3x3, or even 4x4 multi-screen plasma walls
New Remote System Monitoring Command - displays status via RS-232C
Enhanced Screen Saver Functions - White Bar Scroll, Screen Reversal, Side Panel Adjustment, Wobbling, Peak Limit Mode
Newly developed phosphor boosts resistance to static-image burning to the same level as CRT displays
Energy-Saving Functions - Display Power Management Signaling, Auto Power Off, Power Save Mode, Standby Power Save Mode
New IR Remote Control features direct input select buttons, a Power Off button, and ID control of multi-screen systems
New bottom-mounted button controls
Fanless quiet operation
Host of stands and mounting options available
Networked MPEG-2 player available
Plug-in computers available

I know Panasonic has been around for decades, and deep down it feels like this is the route I should take to get my units out of the weather.

Whatcha think???

See ya,
Kelly

Kelly...looks like a nice pro monitor that has a lot of the same features as your pro Pioneers. The price is definitely attractive and if they're readily available on Craig's list, then replacing these outdoor units at $300-$400 a pop isn't too bad. I noticed they're available brand new starting around $600 online (B&H has 'em for $589+$77 shipping).

Also, not sure what rez your current Pioneers are but these are 480p units. From the source material you described, it sounds like this will be fine, especially from a longer viewing distance and these are smaller screens than your Pioneers...480p should be fine and you probably won't notice a picture difference, other than being smaller.

Hope this helps!

You wont like the 4:000:1 contrast ratio outside. It's just not bright enough.

I wouldn't touch a used plasma. They have a finite life, and you have no idea of how much it has been used. It's like buying a used car with no odometer.

Since this tv is 480p it is most likely at least 5 years old.

If you are looking for cheap used, I would look for a good used lcd.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0323037

couple comments....contrast ratio has less to do with brightness and more to do with black levels. The lower the black levels, the better the contrast ratio exponentially (CR = White Level / Black Level). Don't believe any published CR unless it's specified as ANSI CR or On/Off CR. Any other published CR without including the industy measurement standard is just marketing BS.

Plasmas can get plenty bright, they just don't have very good black levels at the higher brightess settings (even the Kuros). For outdoor applications, no one will notice the poor black levels at the higher brightness setting. The reflections off the screen and ambient light will squash the blacks when viewing outdoors during daylight hours. During the nighttime, lower the brightness setting on the plasma for a splendid picture with good black level detail.

In general, LCD gets my vote for outside applications for the reasons I stated above, but if someone has a preference for one technology over the other and is happy with the price, the decision is made. Kelly is obviously leaning towards pro grade equipment for his specific needs. If LCD can't fill those needs, I would not be scared away from plasma technology because of low constrast ratio or low resolution...especially for outdoor applications.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the insight on the new pricing at 600+-. At this price level and if business picks up I might just buy 2 and see if an extended warranty is available.
I saw the unit on C-list, highlighted the Mfg's model number, and googled Panasonic's home page to view it's abilities.
After a quick copy I came in here, pasted, and took off to go ride.
It never dawned on me to do an online price check, I'm sure my offer will come down a little more if I opt to only buy one. I really prefer matching displays but will deal with anything.
As for resolution I normally watch everything with the standard res composite single RG6 using a F to BNC adapter plugged into the BNC spicket. It appears that the only way to get the feed through signal and a wide variety of viewing options is with a professional grade monitor because they're more presentation and marketing oriented displays and not residential TV's.

Thanks again, you guys are great. Racket, I'll probably be contacting you soon. My wife has been talking about the system you described for a while now.
She knows more about this kind of stuff than I do, LOL!!!
See ya,
Kelly

Pro displays tend to have less options for inputs. The reason is, is that they tend to be only fed from one source. My kuro's have 4 HDMI ports, 2 component, and 1 composite, while most of the pro sets have 1-2 inputs depending on how many blades you install on them. Most pro displays don't have a tv tuner either, which would eliminate the use of your vcr, while allowing you to get free hd from an antenna, or QAM through your cable provider.

Got my patio decked out about the way I want it. Spent most of the day, yesterday, installing "can" lights, a flood light for night time volleyball and a 50" flat panel running off of zone 2 of my AVR. Can't wait until summer!

dawg,

Just curious how difficult it was to wire that TV through an outside wall...looks great by the way.

Travis

Travis,

I am lucky when it comes to attic and wall space so it wasn't bad. The backside of the fireplace is actually just a big empty space with about a 6 or 8 inch stove pipe running in the middle so there was plenty of room to just drill through the brick and run the wires.

paradigm...nice outdoor setup...just in time for the nicer weather we've been having. Yesterday, we spent all day outside by the pool enjoying tunes and cooking food over our outdoor firepit. It was a perfect day. Although a TV would've been nice to enjoy watching the Olympics while we were by the pool....

Also, while we were outside yesteday, we finally listened to the Beach Music Playlist put together by GW members which I posted on Grooveshark a while ago. I must say it's a nice mix of old and new music that goes well with activities around the pool. If you haven't checked it out yet, it's worth a listen!

paradig, my work could never look as professional as that. Good job. My next project is considering solar. It would be nice to have as an addition to the heat pump. Can't do too much as TW and I are slowly getting over Jimmy Buffett in concert yesterday in Jacksonville. We tailgated from 9am till the concert start at 8pm and he played for almost 3 hrs. We then tailgated in the parking lot till all the traffic left and did not hit the sack till 1am. We are not as young as we used to be. Laying out at the pool drinking champagne, sunny and 78 degrees.

trhought, for some reason, Grooveshark runs slow through my system. My computer is Ungodly quick and all my gear is networked through IP, even my TVs so I don't know what's going on. I will give it a another try.

brentr, Jimmy Buffett in concert...just awesome. Glad you got to go.

Supposed to snow again tomorrow...yuck!!!!!

brentr...wow...buffet in Feb...and live none the less...that would be an experience...Good memories no doubt. My last concert experience was unbelievable...U2 360 Tour at Houston Reliant Stadium back in October...it was our 14th Wedding Anniversary...Good memories!

paradigm...grooveshark likes the latest flash software. May want to try that to see if that speeds things up. I'm listening to it right now and it's working OK.

Yeah...can't believe this winter...more snow forecasted over here tomorrow also! This...after lounging outside all day on Saturday with 70 degree weather, sun and a comfortable breeze.

Can't wait for summer!

Getting closer to pool weather guys!!!!!!

Hey, I just put together a simple office system and I am amazed by how good it sounds. Makes me wonder why I have 20k in my real system when I now have sound almost as good in a $700 system.

Just to be fair, it is a near-field set up so I don't "hear" the room, just the music.

Audioengine A5's and a Velodyne VMS-8.

Oh...I also added a new plasma to the bedroom.

quote" Getting closer to pool weather guys!!!!!! "quote

This morning when I turned on my pool heaters the water was 65 degrees. The kids will be swimming tomorrow.

I'll have to get you guys some pic's of a pavilion I just did with a pool. I wired the pool buyers AV setup with a 47" LG LCD TV, Bose Lifestyle 5.1 receiver, cable DVR box, and BlueRay player.
It is one SWEEEEET system with unreal sound and surround.
I can't believe that those baby speakers can crank it out like that!!!

On a side note I'm fixing to be moving forward on reworking my pavilion. I'm still playing with all of the options as to how to best replicate what I've previously enjoyed. I just got a plasma out of the shop and it came in as a 700 dollar repair.
I'm not placing it outside ever again. It'll be disposable monitors.

See ya,
Kelly

The bose are pretty good sounding speakers. My 19inch tube TV works just fine in the Flamingo Lounge and the wife wants a new LCD to replace however I cannot justify replacing a perfectly good working TV :) I guess we will never get an LCD for outside..........

paradigmdawg...thanks for sharing your desktop setup..that's impressive. To put this in perspective...I'm using 2 Velodyne subs in our home theater....you're using one for your home office...wow!

For our game room, I'm using a 5 yr old Logitech 5.1 system with built in DPL and a powered sub. The nearfield sound is impressive but the bass in boomy depending on where you're at in the room...kinda annoying when playing billiards. Would be nice if they had built-in room correction for desktop systems such as Audyssey....maybe they do and I'm just not aware.

Nice and clean bedroom setup also. From the picture...it looks like the plasma is hovering above the chest of drawers...cool. I normally place bedroom displays up high to reduce fatigue when watching TV from the bed...just curious how others get around the fatigue of having low displays in a bedroom and watching from bed.

kelly...congrats on opening your pool for swimming...we're a few weeks away from opening ours. I just fired up the slide pump, fog pump and water feature pump this weekend after being winterized. Turned them all on and enjoyed the show in the backyard. Still a little too chilly to start heating the pool as it's only in the 70's during the day and no one is wearing swim suits yet. However, Mother Nature offered us a brilliant nightime show last night from the hot tub...we seen about a dozen falling stars!

brentr...yeah...I'm still biased towards tubes also but you can't buy them anymore these days. It's hard to beat the convenience and $/inch of a flat panel though and their picture quality is pretty close to tubes these days. If the 19" tube ever gives up the ghost, you'll be able to get a 30" flat panel display for nearly the same price that was paid for the 19" tube brand new!

Bose systems do sound pretty good for small spaces or near field listening...just don't go too heavy on the volume for large venues or large audiences....my experience is fatigue sets in quickly after about 10 minutes or so at higher volumes with these systems.

75 degrees and sunny here today.....getting closer to swim weather!

trhought,

Yep, I have two 15" subs that I had custom built for my main room. They replaced a couple of Paradigm Servo-15" and are are pretty flat down(+/- 3) to 12hz and 128db. They are powered by high power outboard amps. I am impressed that the little Velo sounds so tight but it doesn't have to pressure a very big room.

My bedroom plasma is wall mounted where it is at eye level while laying in bed. Our furniture is really tall so it is hung at about 5ft if measuring the center of the screen.

We did a lot of yard work yesterday and after I was finished, I jumped in the pool. Didn't take me long to get out as it was 60 degrees.

Your main room setup sounds awesome with custom speakers and outboard amps. I'm not surprised based on your setups in other rooms that you've shared.

My Velos are about 10 years old now...they were one of the first servo controlled subs out there. I'm sure today's technology would sound even better. These subs do well in our 30x17x9 theater with Audyssey room correction....there's not a bad seat in the room. I also have an audio only room with a Harmon Kardon Citation I Tube Pre-Amp and a Harmon Kardon Citation II Tube Amp powering a pair of 'seasoned' Klipsch speakers that have been recently supplemented with Mark and Daniel Supertweeters. After an hour listening in that room, you can smell and feel the warmth of the tubes in addition the smooth sound and glow offered by them...multi-channel surround is jaw dropping but listening to a good stereo mix on a nice rig is other-worldy.

Your bedroom setup makes sense now with a 5 feet display height. I've been installing our bedroom flat panels closer to the ceilings rather than integrating with floor standing cabinets. One exception is in our Master Bedroom that has an old Sony Tube TV sitting on top of a tall chest of drawers which places it about 6 feet to the center of the screen.

Yes...the pool life is even more enjoyable when you can treat yourself to a refreshing plunge after yard work! Some plunges more refreshing than others....60 degree water...now that's extra refreshing!

trhought,

I am glad you are using tubes with those Klipsch or you ears might bleed...lol...

I had some Reference Klipsch in my bedroom but my wife made me take them out (frown)...I now just use some nice Speakercraft inceilings in there.

paradigm...yes, you're right, the tubes are a good match with the Klipsch horns...it's a magical combination I've yet to improve on.

The advancements of in-walls and in-ceiling speakers has been incredible in just a few short years. I guess we can thank flat panel displays for this stealth look that everyone wants. Speakercraft is at the top of the in-wall playing field...nice choice in my humble opinion.

A buddy of mine has the Klipsch Palladium series. They are some of the best speakers I have heard but I think they go for about 15-20k for a pair. I never really looked on the used market but maybe I should at some point.

Awwww...the pool is up to 70 degress now. I have gotten in everyday for the past 2 weeks now. It was 57 degrees the first time and my time in was less than 20 seconds.

Still pretty darn cold but getting better everyday. I have my summer beach music locked and loaded. It won't be long now!!!!!!

paradigm....those swims in 60 degree water can certainly be refreshing. I start swimming laps in our pool when the water hits 64 degrees. This usually happens in early March and ends around Thanksgiving. Good memories from those early morning swims before starting the day!

This discussion reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George described "shrinkage".

Scott

Beach / Pool Music

All albums by Jimmy Buffett but for a novice feel free to start with the boxed set of: Boats, Beaches, Bars, Ballads.
Don Middlebrook & Living Soul - 1st 4 albums are the best.
Bob Marley & The Wailers - Legend
Eric Stone - Various Albums
James (Sunny Jim) White - Various Albums
Brent Burns - Livin' The Life (Jimmy Buffet wrote about)
I'm not sure if you can buy these any more, although they are relatively recent, but if you can get your hands on any of the Thongs In The Key of Life CD's (there were 3 total) they were absolutely wonderful.

I just sold my DIY subs and bought 2 JL F113's.

Can't wait to get those puppies set up.

They won't dig as low as my DIY's but they should be tighter and I like the compact size.

paradigm...I missed your post from last week...sorry.

The JL 113's are nice. I'm presuming you will have both in the same room for more uniform bass response.

I'm a stickler for proper subwoofer location and setup and a firm believer of multiple subs to smooth response.

Have you tried any of the new receivers with Audyssey yet. The latest Audyssey implementation will calibrate up to 3 different subwoofers in the same room and time correct their response for ultimate room response at low frequencies from every seat in the room.

I was skeptical at first, but after running Audyssey in our home theater, the results were incredible.

fin's up...sorry I missed your post and Thank you for the suggestions. I'm very familiar with Bob Marley's Legend album...good suggestion. I'll have to dig deeper in grooveshark for the other artists and albums you mentioned. A quick search did not show some of these....bummer.

I always run 2 subs in my main room. I'M just tired of the DIY subs (well, the wife is) They had a F3 of 15hz and put out 120db at 1m so I don't think the JL will touch that but JL makes about the best consumer level sub IMO.

My AVR has Audyssey MultEqxt but can only calibrate 1 sub properly. I have a Velodyne SMS-1 and a Behringer DCX2496 (which I feel is the best EQ/crossover on the market even though it is inexpensive)

I will run the JLs with one as a Master and the other as a slave and calibrate through the JL ARO before I introduce any outboard EQ. My goal is to simplfy the set up so I hope between the ARO and Audessy, I can get away from the DCX or SMS.

Bringing the topic back around to music....

The song playing over and over in my head today as the hit rock after rock during our pool dig was "Three Little Birds" by Bob Marley.

"Don't worry, about a thing. Cause every little thing, is gonna be alright..."

:)

*Margarita in hand* (of course).

Here is a link that might be useful: Three Little Birds

paradigm...I have not used the SMS or Behringer units but am familiar with the technology.

As you suggest, it seems those who have these technologies are are also simplifying their setups and using Audyssey alone with success. If ARO is to be used in combination with Audyssey, Chris Kyriakakis, one of the founders of Audyssey, suggests using other room correction algorithms such as ARO first, then using Audyssey to smooth out any other anomolies that may be left in the room.

BTW...Mult-EQ XT can be tricked to calibrate multiple subs if you want to experiment. You may already know this...place the subs equal distances from the first mic position to get the time alignment correct, then proceed with calibration in each location as usual. It's a poor man's method if one does not have the latest implementation of MultEQ with multiple subwoofer capability.

Enjoy those 113's....I'm jealous!

Yes, I will use ARO first and then Audyessy to "fix" the ARO (LOL).

I will have to play around with the sub calibration using Audyessy. I too, have become a big fan of it and hope to leave outthe outboard EQ.

Don't be jealous, just tell me if you ever want one. I can get F110, F112 and F113 for ~1/2 price.

paradigm...wow...you have a good source for the jl subs. Will keep this in mind when I get the urge to upgrade.

Hopefully the ARO / Audyssey routine will work out well for your room and seating positions. The use of outboard EQ's will influence the time alignment of different frequencies arriving to your ears due to the capacitive nature of the circuits used to boost/cut frequencies. This is not a good thing.

Audyssey uses FFT algorithms to look at room response in the time domain and then applies taps (a guarded Audyssey process) to provide an inverse to that room response. All this is done in the time domain, so the end result is a flat room response for all frequencies and everthing arrives to the ear time aligned.

The science is scary, but the sound is incredible. I'm a big fan also.

elleg.....great song.....one of my favorites. Now it's in my head also and that's a good thing. All I need now is a margarita!

Don Middlebrook's homepage is posted as part of this message. I believe some of his CD's are for sale on CD Baby as well. His best 3 albums to date are Changing Lanes, Traveling Music and I Can't Spell Caribbean. If I was to pick just one to start I'd be hard pressed to decide between Changing Lanes & Traveling Music.

Here is a link that might be useful: Don Middlebrook

I know this is an ancient thread but I just found this forum and thread.

Having never heard of grooveshark I really appreciate the information... it's amazing! exactly what I need for my time at the lake.

I also just bought an outside bose speaker at a garage sale for $5.00 so I'm looking foward to sticking it out in the yard and listening to some good beach/pool music next week.

Susan

susiemw...welcome aboard....glad you discovered grooveshark...we enjoy it also...type in the name of your favorite artist and chances are you will find most if not all songs they've performed in their career.

Enjoy!

To revive this thread---what type of tv would you recommend for an enclosed hot tub room?

Dreambuilder. Being inside and not in direct sunlight or the elements of Mother Nature, you have a lot of options.

It almost the same as if you were selecting a tv for you living room or any other room in the house. It depends how far away you will be sitting from the tv during normal viewing.

A good general rule of thumb is to get a tv one third the size of your seating distance. With today's hi def displays, a 2:1 ratio is even possible. If the Tv is too big or you're sitting too close, you will be able to see pixels in the picture being displayed...not a good thing. Example, if the tv will be 10' from the hot tub, then a 40" tv would be the minimum size and a 60" TV would be the biggest size. If the hot tub is 5' from the tv, then a 20"-30" TV would be recommended.

Regarding the type of TV, any technology will be fine since you're indoors. Plasma is not as bright as LCD but generally has a better picture and is far better than LCD when viewing from an angle. Plasma's also tend to be more expensive than LCD.

LCD tv's are brighter, so if your hot tub room is bright, this may be the better choice. The downside of LCD is the picture will become dimmer if your sitting at an angle to the TV. LCD's are the least expensive technology these days unless you get into cutting edge local dimming edge lit LCD's which carry a premium price tag.

Hope this helps.