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Finally Signed the Contract...Suggestions on Depth?

16 years ago

Well, after a few months of waffling we finally decided to go for it. We're not exactly ready for this, but we weren't ready to have kids either and we did and it worked out. The one detail left is the depth of the deep end. The builder is pushing for a 6' depth, says he doesn't do a lot of 8' pools anymore as it cuts down on the shallow end and costs more to heat. We don't want a diving board, but are getting a slide. 6' seems like an odd depth. 7' sounds like a good compromise but I'm curious if anyone has any comments.

For those that are interested here are the details of the pool. It's a vinyl liner:

1. One (1) 18' x 36' Kidney with (1) set steps (white- poly, exposed)steel walled vinyl lined Swimming Pool, Overall wall depth 42" (water depth 36" to 6-7 per plan)

2.Builder to obtain permit with allocation up to $500.00.

3. Machine excavation and hand trimming. Extra pool material to be trucked off site by owner.

4. Installation of wall panels. 3Â6" wall system. Wall panels installed per engineering specifications. One (1) set "A" Frame wall bracing system installed.

  1. Plumbing of recirculation system using 2" Schedule 40 PVC piping and fittings. Separate return for main drains and skimmer. Separate vac line installed with fitting in pool wall. Slide water supply to be 3/4" sch 40 PVC. Manual ball valves on all lines. Pressure test system to 35 PSI.

6. Pool-Krete base bottom approximately 1-1/2' to 2" thick.

7. Liner installation.

8. Backfill to rough grade

9. Initial chemical dosage with verbal and written instructions.

10. Filtration and equipment start-up. Verbal instruction for Owner operation.

11. Final grade to accept concrete decking.

12. 600 sq ft of light broomed decking, to include 12" stamped border. Cantilevered edge form. Decking to include #4 rebar on 2Â centers.

13. Equipment pad aprox 4Â x 8Â (maximum 75Â from pool.)

14. One (1) 20 mil liner with a 15 year limited factory warranted, choice of color and pattern.

15. Site clean up of pool construction related debris.

POOL EQUIPMENT

1 .1 - Pentair 420 sq ft cartridge filter with factory ten year warranty

2 .1 - Pentair 011013 IntelliFlo VS-3050 Pump. Factory

warranty on the pump is 3 year parts and labor.

3. 1 - Pentair heat pump. UltraTemp 120 w/ Factory 3

year warranty.

4. 1- Pentair 320C Series, Automatic Rainbow Chlorinator with In-Line Feeder.

5. 2 - Pentair Intellibrite 600102 color changing light with Pentair Niche. Electrical hookup & extension by others.

6. 1- Pentair Easytouch 4P

7. 1-Slide. SR Smith Rouge Grand Rapids

8. 1-Ladder. SR Smith Stainless for deep end

9. 1 - Pool Chemical Kit

10. 1 - Automatic Surface Skimmer.

11. 2 - Cyclic Main Drain Frame and Grate.

12. 2 - Cyclic adjustable wall inlets.

13 .1 - Vacuum Head with 40' x 1-1/2" vacuum hose.

14. 1 - 8' to 15' maintenance Pole, telescopic.

15. 1 - Pool Brush.

16. 1 - Leaf Skimmer.

17 .1 - 4-in-1 Test Kit.

18. 1-Solar cover with Reel

Comments (13)

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I would change the ball valves to Never-Lubes or Pentair equivalents.

    You might consider adding another set of returns.

    Is the vac line getting connected to the suction or return side or nothing yet?

    Get a 45' hose. It will be easier to use.

    What's in the chem kit and how large?

    If you are in a location where the water table may rise higher than the bottom of the pool, add a dry well with a large 3/8" gravel bed to be connected to the the suction side plumbing.

    When the pump is plumbed to the filter, have them add a 3Way valve so you can lower the pool when needed and to be able to vacuum to waste.

    What state are you building in?

    Will the equipment pad be poured or will they be using pre-cast pads?

    Ask for a soft, vinyl edged scoop net too. Skimming nets are not made for deep use. They often get nicked and can put a pin hole in the liner.

    FWIW, Pentair equipment comes with a 1 year warranty. When a pump and filter are purchased at the same time, they, and ANY other Pentair equipment get an additional 2 years for a total of 3 years warranty. This includes, in your case, the valves, chlorinator, the heat pump and light.

    Six foot depth is fine for the slide. Keep your decking square footage and layout in mind when deciding where to set the slide and ladder. It's also less dirt to have to haul away.

    You might consider adding a valve actuator for the slide.

    Will there be a controller in the house or a portable wireless controller? While not required, it is convenient to turn on the slide, lights and heat pump.

    I suggest you start reading up on pool care at Trouble Free Pools web site. If you have small kids and pets, skip the borax. You'll understand better what I mean after you read up on it.

    I wish you the best of luck with your project. The years of fun and family time are worth it!

    Scott

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks for all the great info and suggestions, Scott! I will bring up all that stuff with my builder. You mentioned the "dry well" and I'm not sure where that would go in relation to the pool. Is it the same concept as installing sump pump in a basement floor? We do have some seasonal water that seems to trickle about 2' underground when it rains a lot, but I'm not sure about the water table. Just to be safe, I'm insisting the builder dig a test hole next week just to make sure there isn't some massive river under there. He says running into water is pretty common around here and usually isn't a problem to work with.

    FYI, we are building in Washington, just north of Seattle and the equipment pad is going to be poured concrete.

    Thanks again!

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    A dry well goes under the deep end. It's primary use is to facilitate the removal of ground water. In this respect, it is very much like a sump you might find in someone's basement.

    This helps prevent liner float when the water in the pool needs to be lowered, if, for example, your pool needs diluting or if the liner is being changed, keeps water from penetrating up from underneath the pool. Water in the deep end would make it impossible to set a new liner in place.

    I would get a soils engineering report, especially if running into water is common in your area. Forewarned is forearmed.

    Getting a dry well installed will add to the costs since the hole needs to be dug deeper and then a layer of small gravel is added.

    A length of perforated 6-8" pipe, covered in landscape cloth, is laid horizontally and covered in the deep end. A length of Sched40 or Flex is set in the perforated pipe and run to the surface. Running it to the pool pump suction makes it convenient to use.

    Since it's not normally open, I usually remove the handle to prevent accidental openings from sending the water to the pool.

    Scott

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Well now I'm curious. Do gunite pools need a dry well if there is a high water table?

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    No, It is almost always an option. Many don't do it to keep the cost down. I think it's short sightedness.

    An empty gunite pool will float given sufficient hydrostatic pressure. Never a pretty site!

    I personally won't drain any pool without signed liability waivers unless there is one and it works.

    Just my $0.02 and I am sticking with it!

    Scott

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    An undersuction tied to a filtration pump is a bad idea IMO.

    If you are going to put a well next to a pool, a sump pump is sufficient to dewater the area around the pool, and can be left running while the pool is drained to prevent other issues. Once the centrifugal filter pump loses prime it may be hard to get it started again.

    FTW. If you have ground water; an under suction pipe, and a hydrostatic relieve valve is more than sufficient for making sure the pool doesn't float. We build pools/ pools near oceans, and lakes with very high water table issues, and we have never had a pool float on us. We have seen it but if proper precautions are made it should never be an issue. Fiberglass, and vinyl are more likely to have issues with groundwater than gunite.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Sounds to me like a dry well is cheap insurance in this case. I can't imagine it's that much more work to dig a little deeper and bring in a load of gravel. Wouldn't the builder have to do it anyway if there's a water issue during the build? Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Not really most of the time they install a perforated pipe under the pool, and suck from before the get the liner in.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    A hydrostatic valve will not prevent a vinyl liner from floating. If the ground water has any lateral movement, i.e. a flow, it will push the liner away from it's walls or floor.

    If the pool pump looses prime when drawing from the dry well, the dry well is empty. Checking it 30 minutes after to see if water is continuing to enter the bed won't hurt the pump if the pump has a gallon of water in it.

    I personally prefer a strong sump over perforated pipe unless the pool is extra deep.

    Scott

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    "If the pool pump looses prime when drawing from the dry well, the dry well is empty"

    What happens when it fills back up?

    You are better off putting in a well casing (6"+ pipe about 1-2" deeper than the pool, and pumping it out with a sump pump.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    So in your opinions, do you think it would be wise to go ahead and have either a dry well or, as Racket suggested, a sump with a well casing installed even if there doesn't appear to be a water problem at this point in time? Does anyone have a ballpark on what that should cost to install during the build?

    Thanks!

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Figure a couple grand. There is extra digging and hauling, rock and plumbing materials.

    If you have deep, sandy soil in a relatively flat yard, skip it, unless you live in low lying area that gets run off from the surrounding area.

    If you have soil that has a heavy clay content and you are in a low lying area, it's almost a must, IMHO.

    Scott

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The sump itself doesn't have to be located under the deepest point. It can be off the the side as long as the gravel bed leads to it.

    Valve like NeverLubes also come in 2-way also.

    I would expect that the weight of the shell sitting and curing would have compacted the soil below. Any energy pressing down on the gravel would have been transferred to the soil.

    If the water table rose, and I may be wrong, I would not expect that soil to compact further than if a dry well was not in place. If a pool is going to shift, it's going to shift with or without the drywell.

    Scott