I'm guessing because the franchises lean on the slick ad money that independents cannot afford.

I picked my builder based on recommendations after asking everyone I knew who owned a pool. I immediately found out who to stay away from that way. The builder I used does 40 pools a year and that's all. There was a 10 month waiting list as he builds for a lot of the home builders in my area which was one of top growing areas in the country a few years back. Turned out that had a brick shortage around that time that delayed some of the houses and he was able to do mine during that time.

My old manager went with with a smaller pool builder based on word of mouth and researched them for complaints and checked references. After he shot the concrete he never finished the job. After she took him to court and sued him, she found out that he was already back in business under another name, had been in business under five previous names and had 23 leins against his house for the same stuff.

I know this could happen with any builder large or small, but just using an example I knew. Because of this, I went with a well known builder that came highly recommended and who I knew had the capital to do the job. All of his employees worked directly for him and he did not use any subcontractors so he knew the quality of the work he did.

Now I do have a thread about high pressure of my system and I've had a lot of different feedback on that of which this forum is only one. Overall, he did a great job on everything for a fair price and completed the job when he said.

I'm not sure if I have answered your quesion in any way. I intended to when I started but not sure if I accomplished it.

No way to edit my post so I guess in re-reading it, when you ask others about their experience to get recommendations and they all used major pool builders, that's really the only recommedation you get. There were three builders here is North Florida that I felt comfortable with and took bids. They were in no way the cheapest but did good work from what I could tell.

Also, I'm not sure the company I went with isn't a small company. Depends on how you define it I guess. It is family owned company and only builds in about three counties so they may be small. I know I still call and order things from them and the same people (family) still answer the phones that did 4 years ago.

Couple-a thoughts...

A) - the complaints are for a different branch/franchise
B) - they offer financing while smaller builders may not
c) - they may be the only game in town
D) - they can afford ads, making them more visible
E) - they are less likely to suddenly go under mid-build
F) - they can afford to be the cheapest bid in town
G) - customer didn't do their research

Not saying it's smart, just theorizing that it's why it happens. I used a smaller builder and was very happy, but for what it's worth, our #2 choice was a big builder with a very good reputation - California Pools and Spas.

good responses everyone ...

Snookums (lol, why do i feel weird calling you that) - i think you're right. Pretty obvious reasons, really. And like you say, they may not be "smart" - but it is what happens.

Gogator - sounds like your company was more like what I call a "mid-size" type. Glad you had a good experience though!

I agree with your comments, a really huge company that cranks out pools at a blinding rate is a lot less likely to give personal attention to any one particular customer. We have very expansive clays in our area and it was also important to me to find someone that understands the local conditions well. We went with a local company that does a lot of volume in our area, but isn't a national outfit. So they're big locally, but small nationally. That seemed to be the best of both worlds for us :-) They're also well-established having done business here for 30 years and they have a very strong rep.

right - good point tresw

franchise & national companies do not have time to worry about soil conditions - they will lose money. It's a plain business principle, no matter what verbal guarantees there are. Therefore, they cannot cover damages created by these conditions (i.e. cracks) - simply because their methods of construction do would have to change

When a company - no matter how big or small, becomes EFFICIENT in something (i.e. "systemized") - they have to stick within those parameters in order to be successful.

Ever notice how a lot of "production" pools will come with one skimmer, rather than two?? Simple ... costs about $400 to install that skimmer.

Take a company that builds 500 pools a year. That is a savings of $400 per pool. $400 x 500 = $200,000

$200,000 ... simply by not adding a skimmer when it really should have been added.

You'll wind up with less efficient circulation (which CAN lead to problems related to black algae ... which is like cancer to a pool) ... certainly not covered by a warranty of any kind.

Meanwhile ... you've just paid for one hell of a marketing campaign for the next sucker to bite

Funny, I purchased mine from a smaller company just because of this. :)

I felt like I was at a Car Dealership when I went to the big time company in the area. And the small company, well, the owner was a founder of the big company and left when "it got too big" 5 years ago, so I know he knows what he is doing and his crew of mostly his sons has like a combined 60 years experience, so I knew it would turn out right.

First: All Pool Builders use sub-contractors. The sub-contracting business is very competitive so the prices are very close. If a Builder has problems with a sub he just gets another, so the subs a very careful to try to do a good job, otherwise they won't get any work.

The part they can fudge on is the original pool design and the quality of the equipment. Since the subs build to the print this is where corners are cut. All it takes in a contractors license and no real capital to be in the pool contracting business. The subs own all the machinery and hire the labor.

Since the Pool Builder has little money in the company much wheeling and dealing goes on. Since the steel, electrical, shotcrete, interior finish is very specialized these are usually not a problem. Where the problems are in the finish work which many times the builder will try to do himself. Such as decking, tile work and cleanup.

In some areas there are special problems that require professional engineering. Many times to save a buck the Builder will just guess what is needed and then he gets in trouble.

How to avoid all this. Do your homework, look at as many finished pools as you can and find your who built them. Don't just look at the builders model pool, look at finished jobs. It will be apparent who did a good job and who did a sloppy job.

Cliff s

quote" All Pool Builders use sub-contractors. "quote

Although mostly true, this isn't always the case.

I only use subs for gunite, concrete decks, and plaster. I do this to combat the number one reason people in our area sign with AS or BH, low price.

In my market, SE Texas, these two builders enjoy the lions share of the entry and mid priced pool construction market. The high priced pool buyers don't typically even call them for a quotation.
The only way to stay close to them on pricing is to cut incurred construction costs.
Although I'm not privy to their costs I know that they pay much less for equal service by the guniters and other high ticket subcontractors. They also get major discounts on equipment prices.
And rightly so, if I enjoyed their 600+ pools a year I'd demand major discounts off of the published price list too.
I'm forced into inhouse work to cut my costs, it's always cheaper to pay your own hand instead of another mans hand plus his employers markup on the work performed.
I can't belly-ache or boo-hoo about it because I set myself up into the market a long time ago with the objective of lots of pools.
Aggressive pricing will always ensure a better chance of closing these buyers.

IMO, if you spent the most money it doesn't mean you got the best pool, you just spent the most money. But if you paid the least amount of money your almost assured of getting the cheapest constructed pool.
Purchase your automobles and clothing on low price but don't do it on a new home or pool construction purchase.

quote" Do your homework, look at as many finished pools as you can and find your who built them. Don't just look at the builders model pool, look at finished jobs. It will be apparent who did a good job and who did a sloppy job. "quote

This is AWESOME advice.

See ya,
Kelly

you're right Kelly - not all work is subbed out.

Yeah, those companies might receive discounts on materials & labor - but that comes at a cost and is passed right back down to the homeowner.

Remember ... NOTHING is free in this world. Where there is a discount, there IS corner that was cut.

And - they really are not always the cheapest either.

I just really do understand the logic though

People want the best (I assume) - yet they will go with a very mediocre (at best) company for such a large home improvement project. Obviously, just by their business model, these companies cannot afford to provide superior products, nor do they have resources to do so

just don't make sense

As for the big box franchises ... yeah, you're right too - their market consists of mainly price shoppers and people wanting the lowest cost.

Which is fine ...