Pictures would certainly help as your post pretty much speaks in circles and is very tough to understand (at least to me).

I am having trouble understanding the description you provided. What do you mean when you say the hangers were just nailed in but did not have hangers? Where are the hangers? Why do the joists run parallel to the planking? So many questions that it is hard to answer you. In my opinion the hole can be fixed using hangers not sitting joists on the outer frame. How is that possible with a level surface?

sorry guys, I was drawing sketches of what it looks like but got so busy with all the other house stuff that it is hard to finish. I will add pics soon :)

ok, here are sketches:

this is what I have right now:

http://i.imgur.com/jK2IfK7.gif

empty space at the bottom is where the hottub was. joists on the outside are double or tripple 2x10 resting on posts in foundation or other 2x10 that rest on the foundation. looks very solid.

The issues are:

1. the 2x10 (2 thinner black lines horizontally) are not attached to the frame with hangers but nailed through the frame into the face of the 2x10 (nails would go horizontally in the drawing). It looks solid but IMO not to code. I can either replace the 2x10 or ad hangers. Probably no big deal....

2. the deck planks (red) rest on the blue pieces. blue pieces are 2x10 that are nailed to the joist. they dont just keep spacing between the 2x10 but they also hold the planks up, so they bear load. IMO thats probably not to code.

Question: Do the blue pieces "count" as short joists that need to be attached to the black joist with hangers or is nailed ok?

Now this is what I want to do:

http://i.imgur.com/jziTJHI.gif

the red "things" are joist hangers. Question is: Can I have one 2x10 (black horizontal) attached to the frame with hangers and then (can be double 2x10 if needed) connect the other 2x10 (black, vertical) to that double 2x10 with hangers?

My concern is that the hangers of that horizontal 2x10 would carry the entire load of the deck. And it would probably be better to run the 2x10 90 degree rotated but I want to run the deck planks left to right.

What is the best approach here?

1. as shown in the sketch?

2. run joists horizontally and deck vertically (wouldnt look as good)

3. run joists horizontally and hold them up with pieces (blue) as in the current design?

:) Matt

.... not sure how to hotlink more than one pic :(

Here is a link that might be useful:

I still have zero idea what your trying to accomplish.

I think I will have to remove all existing joists. But what I need to know is:

- Can I run deck joists like this:

http://i.imgur.com/jziTJHI.gif

where one joist is between the outside frame and then all the (in the pic) vertically running joists attach to that ONE joist. Or is that too much for it too hold?

- If I run deck planks parallel to the joist they will have to be held up by little pieces between the joist, how do I have to attach those to the joist (if thats legal in the first place)?

Do I just nail them on or joist hangers for the little pieces?

Let me try and summarize what I think you're trying to do. Here's what you've got:

You're wondering if that's ok, to have the decking supported on the blocking. The answer is yes, that's ok. You'd want the blocking at 16" OC to make sure it's well supported. If you're building a deck from scratch, that method is a lot more work, but they only had a few boards to go on the end of the hot tub, so that's apparently the route they chose. I've never seen blocking attached with joist hangers, so I don't think you have a problem there. They're not supporting much weight.

Yes to your question about joist hangers. Joist hangers are the superior attachment method, rather than just end nailing. You can just put the joist hanger on the existing joist and nail it in without removing the joist or the end nails.

Now you want to fill in the hot tub hole by putting joists perpendicular to how you want the decking, hanging them off the existing joist like this:

The answer on that is no, if that existing joist is not supported on a beam, it'll sag with all the other joists hanging on to it.

A few questions to help recommend a method of reframing:
1. You mention joists sitting on the "outside frame". Is that frame under the joists or do they butt up to it? I'm not clear on that.
2. What's in the open space at the bottom of your sketch. Is that the house? Is there a ledger board?

A few photos would be very helpful.

yes thats pretty much what I was looking for :)

here are some pics:

http://imgur.com/a/gBKIP#0

the outside frame is strong and away from the house rests on foundation and 2x10s

the easiest would be if I just tear off the planks (turns out they are solid cedar but covered in multi layers of paint .. too late), reinforce existing 2x10 with hangers and fill in the hole with new 2x10 and hangers.

If I add blocking, I can run new planks left to right. the blocking can probably virtually any size, doesnt need 2x10 because its short? is that right? It doesnt matter but keeping the weight down is probably good ...

for the blocking that carries the planks, do I for sure not need to put it up with hangers? It isnt blocking but technicall short load bearing joists ...

So the deck is freestanding? With triple 2x10s all the way around? And it's in the range of 7'x10'?

Since the deck boards are painted, it'll be impossible to get a good match. I'd tear them out and install new ones.

The deck is small enough that you could run joists either direction, attaching them with joist hangers to the rim joists. If you want the decking to run the same direction it is now, I'd tear out the 2 or 3 existing joists and install all new ones going the other direction. Then add your new deck boards and you're done.

The deck is attached to the house. Double or Tripple 2x10 on the outside. The area I have to cover is about 8x10'.

I left the existing deck planks for now to have a place to walk but it will come out too. I would like the planks in the same orientation as right now but that will make it difficult so I might just rotate them 90 degree so they are supported by the joists

Your photos show railings around 3 sides of the deck and steps down the 4th. I'm confused as to where it's attached to the house. Which side connects? (You can use one of your drawings above.)

the photos are a bit misleading. there are railings at two sides (front, right) and stairs to the left. The deck attaches to the house from the directions the photos are taken (except 2nd). The remaining planks are directly in front of the house

So on your sketches above, the house is on the top end?

What photo's?

millworkman - [http://imgur.com/a/gBKIP#0(http://imgur.com/a/gBKIP#0)

Matt499 - Quite frankly the area you are filling in is small enough it probably won't fail no matter how you do it. Especially with all the bearing posts it appears there are. It appears the tub was supported on all 4 corners either by posts or the triple ply beam. BUT if you want to do it correctly you have to identify what is supporting what. It is very difficult to ascertain without speculation from your photos.

If I was to speculate I would look at picture #3. Remove the two boards on the left top and bottom running on the diagonal. Fill the hole in running the joists from top to bottom inline with with those running into the 2 ply on the bottom of the photo. Using joist hangers would be best. Redo the decking in the same direction. It appears the decking is running perpendicular to the joist direction.

Unfortunately you basically have 5 pictures all showing the same thing. If you want to take more photos step back a bit and try and get the whole deck in one picture from different directions. Also get pictures from underneath, again try and get as much as you can in one picture and from multiple directions.

SCG

Well thanks everybody!

those are the pics: http://imgur.com/a/gBKIP#0

the house would be in the "south" and the deck attaches to it. What I wanted is run plans east-west as it would look better but would be difficult due to the support structure.

Instead I decided I run new joist east - west and deck planks north south. Once I go with this approach i will tear out the remaining stuff and just leave the outside support frame, attach new joist and its done.

Where I am not sure is:

- should I use 2 x 10 or smaller joist? My only concern is weight. although the support post look very stable i dont want to add weight where not necessary. Per online deck joist calculators I could use 2x6 because they are short. Is there a point?

- blocking. should I bother? If so at what distance apart? The joist are 8 ft long

- stain. I will use cedar planks and the paint guy at home depot said its too cold now (vancouver, BC) to stain the deck. The deck has a roof so its dry, just cold and humidity. Should I put planks on and stain them in the spring? But then they might get some dirt on them. Stain them now? Alternatively i can cover the deck with plywood until spring but thats just a waste of money and time.

- when I stain the deck. do I just stain the top of the planks and leave the sides and bottom untreated or stain the bottom, flip and screw down and stain the top?

If you think it looks better that way who am I to say different.

I still haven't seen pictures that show me you can change joist directions. IMHO it shows they should be run, as I explained above, north-south if south is the bottom of the picture.

Not sure why you are concerned about weight of building materials. The difference in this situation is negligible. I would be more concerned with how many people will be on the deck or what other items you intend to put on it (eg. huge planter) A cooler full of ice and beer probably will weigh more than the difference of 2x6 vs 2x10.

The point in joist size is strength. How much deflection are you going to be happy with? Some people hate it when they can feel others walk on the deck and some don't care. What spacing are you going to run?

Blocking - Depends on what you use and the spacing whether or not to put it in.

It is generally wise to stain all 4 sides of boards to seal them. It will decrease, even if slightly, the chances of cupping, twisting and warping. You are going to install them so if they do cup the edges will cup down, right? :) It is much nicer on bare feet.

Good luck

SCG

I can NOT change joist direction but did not want to change deck plank direction. Currently joist and deck run parallel (which is probably not a good idea, so i am changing it).

I am keeping joist direction and changing deck plank direction 90 degrees.

I wanted to run joist 16" center to center but can run other distance if better.

I have no idea how the blocking should be done.... I would install maybe 3 pieces on each 8 foot joist by gut feeling

tell me more about cupping and how to do it right please :)

I would love to help you but I am totally confused now.

On that small if a deck you probably can't make it fail. So do what you want and update us with pics later

SCG