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tracybug11

In over my head

14 years ago

I'm embarking on my first kitchen and bath remodel, and as the title indicates, I'm freaking out a little. I'm a single mom, this is my first house, and the first time I've had any major work done on it. I'm hoping to completely redo the kitchen (including removing walls) and partially redo a bathroom. My house is fairly modest and I have to admit to being a low-end kind of buyer when it comes to furniture and appliances. I've talked to one contractor and one KD so far, with another contractor coming on monday, but I'm still not sure how to go about finding someone to design and build a decent quality kitchen without taking advantage of me, convincing me I need things I don't, or doing a shoddy job.

Do I need a KD, or can I just work with a contractor? Am I going to buy things (other than cabs) through them, or buy them myself?

How do you evaluate contractors?

Comments (12)

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Tracybug - I have been in your shoes. You can prepare yourself by doing research online and reading books, magazines, articles, etc. Get references for the contractor. Kitchen designers can be a big help. While designing my kitchen the designer would recommend certain things and I always asked for a complete explanation why. They soon learned that I did not take their word. It had to fit my/our lifestyle. Good luck!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    While I am not in the same position, I found the book linked below valuable in helping us navigate a new build build working with an architect and contractor/bulder.

    Question everything and make sure you get multiple bids. Think about things you can do later vs things that must be done now. Plan, plan and plan before starting work. Design is the key to making it all work.

    I used another book to put together a list of question for the architect and builder. We interviewed 10 builders before we found the "one". If you want the questionnaire, email me and I will send it to you although it was geared to a new build.

    Designing your dream home by Susan Lang.

    http://www.amazon.com/Designing-Your-Dream-Home-Everything/dp/1401603521/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331865610&sr=1-1

    M

    Here is a link that might be useful: What Your Contractor Can't Tell You

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I feel your pain.
    I'm a mom of 2, just went back to work from maternity leave full time and embarking on this was no fun task...
    Just a couple things that i learned in this process:
    - we met with a kitchen designer. The price they gave us over the price 2 other contractors gave us was almost double. Now i know why. They would have taken care of everything for us, ordered everything, the place seemed a little high end and they would have dotted every i and crossed every t, and i probably would have a lot less gray hairs than i do now.
    - the contractors will do the job, but from my experience you need to be on top of them. i honestly feel like i've run my whole job. I was the one every day asking if this or that was done or ordered and then just ordered things myself (faucet, sink, knobs, etc ) I feel like every order we gave them to do we had to repeat, and ask, and follow up if it's being done. it's been a little rough. you have to be prepared to have conversations about "why hasn't this been done yet" or for when you run into problems.
    Also, again only my experience - but sometimes the contractors will do your job but they will just have a KD do the layout. For us, the contractor brought us to a showroom and the KD did the layout and we got the cabs from them.

    For you the designer may be better, but from my experience anyway, it will come with a higher price tag!
    Ask around the best you can if you do go with just a contractor, and get references from people you know. Don't be afraid to meet as many as you like and see who you feel will suit you best.

    Finally, when you do get someone don't let them influence you on things you don't want. If you know you only want white countertops, don't let them tell you dark is better to bring out this or that wood, do what YOU want. Go through magazines and websites (houzz) and find your style of what you want before you start, and then don't let their opinions cloud yours.

    Good luck!!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Join Angie's List! I joined Angie's List after having a friend recommend a GC who turned out to be a nightmare. It isn't expensive to join and has been a huge help to me several times. I used them to find the company who is doing my kitchen (along with two others to interview and get design help and bids) and they had rave reviews. I'm especially impressed with Angie's List because the contractors are all very aware of their status on the site.

    Also check out your state's licensing board to make sure the contractor is licensed and insured and in good standing. You can also check their standing with the Better Business Bureau in your state. Easy to find those sites on Google.

    Good luck!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Angie's List

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Whether it's us here, your contractor or the latest trends don't let others influence your decisions. The more advice the better but always take time to evaluate whether its the right advice for you.

    Build a budget with a 15%-20% contingency and stick to it.

    I'm part of the plain appliance brigade. I'm sure expensive appliances are better but you don't tend to miss what you never had and I have gotten good longevity out of no-frills appliances.

    Good Luck!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    First off, bite off small chunks. Do your research first. Figure out which appliances you want (there's an Appliances forum here), which sinks, which counters. You can always change your mind, but the more you know about what you want, and the more informed you are about pricing, the easier time you'll have when you start talking to construction people. Go slow.

    You don't need a kitchen designer, per se. You need someone who can assess your house and know which walls can be taken down, and also figure out if there are structural improvements that need to be done before you start thinking about demolishing anything. That someone is probably a good general contractor. Maybe a highly trained and experienced interior designer. Most KDs know kitchen cabinets but do not have the training for this. Be prepared to learn that the floor needs reinforcing, that in order to take down walls you'll need a beam that will cost your whole appliance budget, that you need a new electrical panel and/or new pipes. You and your contractor can talk through what can and can't be done with your budget and timetable, and what upgrades you have to make now in anticipation of doing the full remodel in the future. You might luck out, and learn that what you want to do is simple and the house is fine. Find out first, however.

    Ask everyone you know and trust for contractor recommendations. Get references. Call the references and ask to see the house. Chat them up and ask about what went wrong and how it was handled. There will always be mistakes. It's what they do to fix them, what their attitude is, and if they try to charge extra for things they've done wrong, that you need to learn. If they say nothing went wrong, either they've forgotten, they weren't paying attention, or they're deluded.

    Ask the contractor candidates about details. Make sure when they bid, they include the complete scope of work (i.e., if it's a whole kitchen redo, did they include the wiring for the lighting?). Ask about overruns. What do they do if they find something that needs fixing when they open the walls? The really good contractors will give you a contingency budget. Perhaps they'll figure in the cost of a small plumbing fix in the bid, but will charge you if it takes more than half a day.

    This leads to the most important thing: You're not a government agency that has to worry more about the appearance of graft than the quality of work. Don't leap at the lowest bid or largest scope of work for the buck. Most times these are overly optimistic at best, and criminal at worst. Instead, look for the GC with a reasonable bid, which is comprehensive, but as important, a person whom you can communicate with, who doesn't make you feel Little Darlin'ed to death. Someone who wants to work with you to make a great project rather than just get in and out and walk off with your money.

    There are some really marvelous contractors out there, and there are many many crooks. Find someone you can trust. Then verify. :) And keep an eye on things. Miscommunications happen all the time and the best way to prevent problems is to keep an eye on what's happening. I'm assuming you also work full time, so one of the things you should talk about with your contractor ahead of time is how you're going to communicate. For instance, maybe you'll have a morning meeting every day before you leave for work (construction tends to start and end earlier than the standard work day). If he says he'll just take care of everything, run the other way. If he agrees to the meetings, hold him to it. Make sure they're in the contract and make sure he lives up to his end.

    The payments should be spread out over the time of the work. A deposit, then a payment after the completion of each stage. Don't give the final payment until every last touch up is finished. It's the incentive they have to come back and get it done. Do not give more money than your contract says you should at any time along the way.

    Most of all, remember that you're the boss. Be assertive. The contractor may know a lot more about remodelling, but you know better than anyone what you want and the way you want it to be. Stand firm. Communicate clearly. Don't take any weaseling. If it's wrong, ask them how they're going to fix it. If it's right, express your delight. You are the queen of your house. Act like it (i.e., be always gracious, but in command).

    And remember to enjoy yourself. :)

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    "Do I need a KD, or can I just work with a contractor?" There is no easy answer to that, only questions, like: Do you have a sense of design? Do you know anything about this process? Do you have anyone that does that could advise you along the way? Do you have an idea of the style you are going for? Pictures maybe? Do you have a budget that is realistic for what you want to achieve because it will almost always go over. Does the contractor have any design sense? Does he care about his work first and not just the money because to me doing good work is want will make you money. Being referred to your next job with pleasure is a lot better than looking for someone else to b.s. It's not an easy thing. You have to feel comfortable with this person and trust them. There are plenty of good ones out there. Probably the best thing is to find someone that can refer someone they have worked with and feel good about. I do this everyday for a living and I often think how hard it would be to do this if I were in a position like yours.A real good KD that has a contractor they work with is also a way to go if your budget allows. There are a lot of good people on here that can answer your questions but remember everyone has options no one always has the one perfect answer. You have to sort that out yourself
    John

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Your budget is what will be the answer to do I need a KD. If it is tight and you are trying to get the most for your money then the less people involved the less you pay. The downside to this is the more decisions or mistakes you will make. Most contractors give a bid on what is presented to them. If details are not on the plan then more cost can arise when construction takes place. If a KD is involved and everything is documented (cabinets, appliances, lighting, flooring ,paint, etc.) then the contractor can give a closer bid and little extras crop up. The biggest problem is what a homeowner without a KD faces is when a contractor has what we call "come to" problems. When they go to the owner and want answers as to what do they want when they come to a odd situation like trim or framing in the way, or hidden pipes it is their (owners) problem to solve it. Some of these problems can happen even with a KD, but at least the owner has someone to call to work out the problems. Contractors can help solve problems, but they are limited in design capabiities. They are paid to do the work they bid on although some seem to have trouble doing that. Nothing beats a well thought out blueprint with all dimensions, electrical plan, door and window schedule,paint schedule, etc. that the contractor can follow. If all appliances are specified and integrated and delivered when needed then jobs flow in a timely matter. If budget is low then probably no KD and you deal with it. If it is major redo then a KD, architect or combination is the only way to go.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I will definitely use them. I've been doing research in books and online (which is how I found GW) and I have a pretty good idea about the look that I want for my kitchen, and can pick out appliances and fixtures, but I don't know anything about electrical circuits and plumbing and permits. I guess I will learn :).
    Unfortunately, I don't seem to have any friends or neighbors who have had work like this done, so I don't have any great personal recommendations for people to work with.

    What about companies that describe themselves as Design-Build? These seems to be contractor firms with their own KDs. What are the downsides of that arrangement?

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    "What about companies that describe themselves as Design-Build? These seems to be contractor firms with their own KDs. What are the downsides of that arrangement?"

    They take are of most of the headaches of planning everything, but they come at a significant cost. For the average 50K kitchen remodel, if you DIY everything, you can probably come in at 30K. If you design/build, you will probably be closer to 80K.

    Most pre 1980 homes will need new electrical service in order to do a kitchen remodel. Modern kitchens just use a lot more electrical then older ones. If you home has a 100 amp panel or less, you will need to upgrade it.

    Galvanized or copper plumbing can be an issue, especially if you live somewhere that has poor water quality or are on a well. Pinhole leaks can become big leaks in no time. Both have finite life spans and those life spans quickly expire once you start disturbing them.

    Cabinetry is the third big expense in the budget. Average kitchens will have +-15K worth of cabinets in their kitchens. Taller cabinets, glass, more molding=the + to +++ side of "average". Mid grade higher end can be 75-100K. Luxury high end can run 200-300K just for cabinets.

    A traditional way of planning a budget for a kitchen redo is to use 10-20% of your home's value as the baseline budget. This is assuming you are not in one of the still overpriced markets nor in one of the totally slumped markets. 10% is for a facelift, where you are keeping major elements of the kitchen. 20% is for the full to the studs redo with some minor electrical and plumbing upgrades. You are planning wall removals, etc, which would put you in the 25-35% bracket for budget.

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Great advice from everyone here....If you're shy about hiring a KD, you can always take your measurements and ideas to Lowes or HD and they will do a free (I think) design layout for you...go to several in your area because they are hit or miss in terms of talent/experience at each store. I think "design-build" firms tend to be higher priced. Angie's List is a great option since you can't get personal referrals. I interviewed about 8 contractors--all from Angie's List and 1 or 2 on AL also recommended by friends or coworkers. We went with the company who, when I called to make the appt., within an hour had emailed me copies of his current license/bonding/insurance information, etc. He showed up on time, with a laptop in hand to show me pictures of recent projects. I got an estimate back within the week. He always returned phone calls/emails promptly. The crew went the exta mile on several occasions.
    Plllog hit the nail on the head about picking out what you want ahead of time--as many things as possible. Granite choice took me forever and held up my remodel...fortunately, my contractor is busy enough he was able to skip over me and schedule others until I was ready. I say shop for everything before you even contact a designer or contractor and get a strong idea of each element you want (but don't purchase yet). Keep a folder of things you see that you like in magazines, etc.. And yes--15-30% surplus for any surprises..our surprises once the walls were opened totalled $7,000. Good luck--it's a daunting but also fun process!

  • 14 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Forgot to say you can also post your layout/ideas here and there are MANY talented/knowledgeable people, including KD's, who are ready and willing to help answer questions, solve problems, etc....for free!

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