i'm sure that any of the chemicals that we use in our pools would be very harmful to anyone, let alone small children, if they were used in high enough doses. I may be wrong in believing that its safe enough, i could not say for sure I am not using more that the recommended amounts of 50-80ppm.

Not i or anyone else who has been swimming in my pool ever had any adverse effects afterwards. I know for a fact that i use less Muriatric acid now. to me, muriatric acid just seems alot more harmful. atleast i can touch borax and not have to hold my breath or make sure that i'm not downwind of it when using it.

Honey is toxic for infants, peanuts can be toxic for infants. Fish (low mercury levels), lunch meat, and many other things can be toxic to infants.

Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) for example should be kept away from small children. Although mostly harmless to adults, it can severly burn the trachea and esophogus of infants and children if the powder is inhaled.

The worst product I've seen: Floating chlorinators that look like rubber ducks or other toys. Think about it. Then throw it away.

Muriatic acid is no longer dangerous once dispersed in the pool and the PH equalizes. Cyanuric acid is well known to be bad for humans. Some states have upper limits on its use in public pools because of this. Both of these have been widely used by public swimming pools and their effects have and are being studied.

The use of Boric Acid in pools has not been studied as far as I know. The recommended amount of 50 80 PPM is coming from Homeowners or other people in the pool industry who for the most part do not have the proper background to say this is safe but have found a product that makes managing the pool much easier.

As far as I can tell everyone who says it is safe or safe enough are basing it on no proof. 80 pounds of Borax is not a small amount. At 50 Â 80 PPM this is 20 or 30 times more than the amount of chlorine in the pool.

I have read comments elsewhere from people recommending Boric acid making the comments not to let your dogs drink the pool water because it may be dangerous to them but its ok to let your kids swim in the pool. I guess we are living in a time when people love their dogs better than their kids.

edpa-i think that to say that people love their dogs more than their kids is very unfair.

yes, i have read to not let dogs drink out of it like its their water bowl everyday. that certainly would not be the same as having some splash in the face and possibly swallowing some water. like i said in my above post, i don't think that letting a dog drink out of a pool everyday would be good for them with or without borates added.

I have not researched it enough to know how extensively its been tested, but why does Lamotte for example make borate test strips for a swimming pool that tests for up to 80ppm? I have heard that for a baquil pool that 80ppm is recommened. I actually intended to only have 50ppm, but started with more than i thought i had because i did not have the test strips yet and put in enough for a pool with 0ppm. i did the same thing when i first got my SWG and added too much salt not realizing that my pool already had salt in it.

edpa-you took what you posted first out of context. here is the entire article on toxicity from wikipedia:

Toxicity

Borax, sodium tetraborate decahydrate, is not acutely toxic. [8] Its LD50 (median lethal dose) score is tested at 2.66 g/kg in rats. [9] This does not mean that it is safe, merely that a significant dose of the chemical is needed to cause severe symptoms or death. The median lethal dose for humans tends to differ for a given compound from that of rats. Simple exposure can cause respiratory and skin irritation. Ingestion may cause gastrointestinal distress including nausea, persistent vomiting, abdominal pain, and diarrhea. Effects on the vascular system and brain include headaches and lethargy, but are less frequent. "In severe poisonings, a beefy red skin rash affecting palms, soles, buttocks and scrotum has been described. With severe poisoning, erythematous and exfoliative rash, unconsciousness, respiratory depression, and renal failure." [10]
A reassessment of boric acid/borax by the United States Environmental Protection Agency Office of Pesticide Programs found potential developmental toxicity (especially effects on the testes).[11] Boric acid solutions used as an eye wash or on abraded skin are known to be especially toxic to infants, especially after repeated use because of its slow elimination rate

You are correct but you ran 2 paragraphs together. The full paragraph is:

"A reassessment of boric acid/borax by the United States Environmental Protection Agency Office of Pesticide Programs found potential developmental toxicity (especially effects on the testes).[11] Boric acid solutions used as an eye wash or on abraded skin are known to be especially toxic to infants, especially after repeated use because of its slow elimination rate.[12]"

I am not arguing here. I just want to point out that like everything else we have to weigh the good and the bad. Which is getting harder every day. For those of us who are trying to eliminate our exposure to chemicals there may be concerns about swimming in this product. People are being told how great this product is to use they should beware it may not be harmless.

I have posted the toxicity on both Borax and Boric acid from Wikipedia.

TOXICITY ON BORIC ACID:
Based on mammal median lethal dose (LD50) rating of 2,660 mg/kg body mass, boric acid is poisonous if taken internally or inhaled. However, it is generally considered to be not much more toxic than table salt.[4] The Thirteenth Edition of the Merck Index indicates that the LD50 of boric acid is 5.14 g/kg for oral dosages given to rats, and that 5 to 20 g/kg has produced death in adult humans. The LD50 of sodium chloride is reported to be 3.75 g/kg in rats according to the Merck Index.
Long term exposure to boric acid may be of more concern. Although it does not appear to be carcinogenic, studies in dogs have attributed testicular atrophy after exposure to 32 mg/kg bw/day for 90 days. This level is far lower than the LD50.[5]
According to boric acid IUCLID Dataset published by the European Commission, boric acid in high doses shows significant developmental toxicity and teratogenicity in rabbit, rat and mouse featus such as cardiovascular defects, skeletal variations, mild renal lesions.[6] As a consequence, in August 2008, in the 30th ATP to EU directive 67/548/EEC, the EC decided to amend its classification as reprotoxic cat. 2 and R60 (may impair fertility) R61 (may cause harm to the unborn child).

TOXICITY ON BORAX:
Borax, sodium tetraborate decahydrate, is not acutely toxic. [ 8 ] Its LD50 (median lethal dose) score is tested at 2.66 g/kg in rats. [ 9 ] This does not mean that it is safe, merely that a significant dose of the chemical is needed to cause severe symptoms or death. The median lethal dose for humans tends to differ for a given compound from that of rats. Simple exposure can cause respiratory and skin irritation. Ingestion may cause gastrointestinal distress including nausea, persistent vomiting, abdominal pain, and diarrhea. Effects on the vascular system and brain include headaches and lethargy, but are less frequent. "In severe poisonings, a beefy red skin rash affecting palms, soles, buttocks and scrotum has been described. With severe poisoning, erythematous and exfoliative rash, unconsciousness, respiratory depression, and renal failure." [ 10 ]
A reassessment of boric acid/borax by the United States Environmental Protection Agency Office of Pesticide Programs found potential developmental toxicity (especially effects on the testes).[11] Boric acid solutions used as an eye wash or on abraded skin are known to be especially toxic to infants, especially after repeated use because of its slow elimination rate.[12]

There is actually a discussion going on at troublefreepool about this same topic with more in depth information. The gist is that the primary danger would be from regular and long term ingestion of the borated water. Apparently it shrinks the balls in test dogs.

" Cyanuric acid is well known to be bad for humans. Some states have upper limits on its use in public pools because of this."

Actually that upper limit is because of the CYA's effect on chlorine's ability to oxidize.