If I shouldn't go with Viking, then how does this sound:

Range: Wolf 30" Dual Fuel
Hood: Wolf 30" Pro wall range hood
Wine Center: Sub Zero 24" Wine center
Now,
What should I do with the Refrig and Dw?

Refrig: 36" W 71" H
DW: 24" W

It sounds pretty good.

As you seen, (and probably read more than ya wanted)?, most of us here in GW are:
"Mixers not Matchers", alto as others have mentioned, it's your kitchen, and do what makes you happy.

The longer Viking Warranty "Could be" an asset, assuming you have a reliable and knowledgeable service company near by--In fact that should be step #1!!!! Alto if the appliances busticate, and you are a "Working Stiff" (LOL), It can be a Pita scheduling to get the repairs done---hopefully none are ever needed, I've only had one, (to tighten a loose handle), but I'm retired so it was a "Piece of Cake"!

As far as your selections go You really haven't told us much about the way you cook or bake, Do you do much Woking or Stir Frying, where a "Ranging Inferno Range" would fit the bill best, (Capital or Blue Star), or are sealed burners perfectly ok with you, even thou they "May" have a tendency to shoot the flames around the pots/pans on higher settings or smaller pots/pans. Do you do a lotta "Fancy Simmering"? Do You bake or proof bread, do several trays of cookies----etc etc etc.

As far as your Wine Center, I would at least look at the Perlicks (only the ones with the variable speed compressors)
as that is a much more up to date technology,
(quieter, more efficient, better temp control etc etc) than the old style compressors that are simply "Full/On Full Off.

Fridge, see if they make a Jenn-air in the size and configuration you want, they are always highly rated for reliability by subscribers to CR (Not CR Ratings, per se).

DW, either a Miele which might be easier to build in flush, or the KA, which does require a slightly deeper cabinet to be "Fully flush". I've had several KA's and all were quiet and trouble free, I now have a Miele, due to the top cutlery tray, and it too is great.

Good luck with your pending decisions In the end , it's you and your family that counts deserves to have what makes them happy and hopefully for a long time!!

Gary

I do a TON of simmering, wok cooking, and I make a lot of souffles!

Would it be worth it to make a cabinet 'mod' to fit a built in refrig?

Your hood should be 36" if you're getting a 30" range, as library_girl mentioned above. There needs to be an overhang for better capture.

Can't fit a 30" hood):
But,
Would it be worth the money to make room for a built in refrig?

BTW - Modern Aire (ventilation hoods) will custom match any color range color.

I would take the time to look at the Blue Star as well as the Capital Cullinarian, you just can't beat those for Woking & stir frying, except perhaps a "Dedicated Woker" either gas or induction.

The Capital might need a lil "tweeking" to simmer to your expectations, but there are plenty of folks here in GW that can help you with that.
If you don't mind moving pot's/pans around to different burners and a simmer burner, then
Blue Star might be the way to go, If you're NOT a "Mover" then the Capital Cullinarian may be your "Cup of Tea".
Do check service availability on both of these ranges, as some have posted "Any company that services Wolf or other High end ranges would be able to take care of the Blue Star" (paraphrasing),---well that was not the case for one poster, ---Until--- A bunch of helpful "Garden Webbers" jumped in and assisted her in getting help from Blue Star!!!

To me, a built in Fridge was one of the best things we did with our kitchen, and in fact, I designed the kitchen around the 48" Jenn-air built in fridge.
There are many things we love about our kitchen, Induction, Speed Oven, single built in oven, blah blah blah, but!!!! We love the way the fridge looks and it is soooooo easy to keep clean, (The wood panels) just dont show dirt and finger prints like SS does, we also paneled our Miele DW.

Make sure you can do adequate ventilation should you choose one of these "Rangin' Inferno Ranges"!!!

Gary

The thing is about Blue Star and Capital is, that I NEED an electric oven.

Then I guess I will go with SUB Zero built in

"I can't imagine being in Sugarcookies shoes. I hope all goes well from here on out."

Alex - Thank you. Me too!

"Viking really needs to somehow improve their reputation in these circles...I am not sure how(or even if) they can do it."

jsceva - The way Viking can improve their reputation here on GW (and everywhere else too) is to produce a quality product. If my range continues to function perfectly I will regain some confidence in Viking range products. The longer it works perfectly, the more confidence regained. Either way it works out after some time has passed, I will update here on GW about my experiences with my Viking products.

I agree with you that giving a three-year "bumper to bumper" warranty certainly makes me feel better. I am grateful for that considering how things started out with my range.

As I said above, I do like the Viking vent hood and microwave drawer. Both of those Viking products work well. My minor complaints about those two items are more about my personal preferences and getting used to pro appliances than about the products themselves.

"We need some solid, recent, first hand information on here about how Viking is doing."

jsceva - FYI, my post is solid, recent, first hand information. My appliances were installed just over two weeks ago on 3/2/2012. :)

No one NEEDS an electric oven but you WANT one - that's cool.

I do need an electric oven,because I was quoted by 4 different people 5,000+ dollars to make a natural gas hookup to my range.

If you have no gas line, how are you going to do a duel fuel range that requires gas for the cooktop?

That came out wrong.

What I mean is that I am going to have to pay the 5K for my gas line, and I don't really want to pay extra for the all gas stove. My appliance dealer told me all gas ranges were more than the Viking I was looking at, which I have trouble believing.

In that case you NEED an electric range, not a dual fuel range. A dual fuel range has gas burners and an electric oven. If you don't have a gas hookup, a dual fuel range won't work.

Your appliance dealer is misleading you. All-gas ranges are significantly cheaper than dual fuel ranges. It sounds like he's pushing an all-Viking package on you because he gets a large spiff (commission/bonus) for selling Viking. You're getting better advice on this forum than he's giving you. Not surprising!

I am going to have my contractor place a gas hookup there.
That makes sense now!
Do all gas ranges provide a significant cooking adv over dual fuel?

I think you need to find a new appliance store and sales person. Dual fuel is more expensive than all gas.

You should go to AJ Madison and do some research. The Viking all gas is $4000, the dual fuel is $4600. In both cases, less than what your sales person is quoting you.

Wolf all gas is less than Wolf dual fuel.

Since you can do all gas, you should not eliminate Bluestar or Capital - both are better than what you are considering and likely less expensive.

IMHO, you are getting taken for quite the ride.

Here is a link that might be useful: AJ Madison

From all we see, acw6455, you are looking at Dual Fuel ranges?
So wouldn't you have to unfortunately pay the 5 grand whether the range was an AG or a DF?

The only way to beat that, and still get great performance would be to go with Induction.
We don't really have enough posts about Woking with induction yet, to really give you a good idea how well it works/woks, but I suspect with the correct Wok, Induction would do a good job. It will certainly boil water faster than any gas range, and simmer better too!

You would have to compare the cost of installing an Adequate
power connection to the Induction range to the 5 grand it will cost you to get gas to the range.

I'm still a bit confused about why you "Need an Electric Oven", alto myself I prefer them,
(Just Me and What I'm usta). Once you hook up the gas to the range there should not be any additional charge as far as hooking up the gas oven that the range has, as more than likely it feeds off the same supply. Only thing I can think of is the gas line is only big enough for the cooktop and not big enough for both the cooktop and the oven, but that would be rare indeed, alto some of these "power house Gas Ranges" would probably tax that gas supply, if indeed that is the case.

Good luck with your project!

Gary

@sugar: my VAH dislikes are a longstanding refrain especially on the Appliance forum where the ventilation-obsessed hang out.

In short--poor performance, extremely loud, a huge PITA to clean well, and overpriced for what they do. I think they must have some huge incentive program for appliance dealers, as they almost all talk about how fabulous VAH hoods are. I suspect it's similar to the Viking sales troll who is advising the OP about the range. What nonsense--"all gas ranges cost more than a Viking dual fuel." And as MichelleDT points out, Modern Aire can match anything that Viking does with color, and makes a superior hood in almost every way.

For obsessive details, see vent hoods and noise, the real scoop on VAH

And to echo weissman and Michelle again, your appliance dealer appears to be, at best, an idiot, and at worst, a crook. I'd be looking elsewhere!

no way is an all gas range more expensive than dual fuel. i bought my capital precision three years ago for a little over $5K for a 48". a good friend paid $12K for her (stupid) viking. her builder arranged a special "deal" for her. yeah, that was special alright!

Gary's again on the money, though a few thoughts:
Given that induction requires direct pan to surface contact, how does a wok work? I guess they must make some kind of flat-bottomed wok specifically for induction?

As for gas line capacity: I doubt that is a limiting factor. We have a six burner Lacanche Cluny 1400, with one gas oven, plus two gas furnaces, plus two gas water heaters, all running just fine off one standard (I believe 3/4'') gas supply line. So I don't think a single all gas range would be a problem with any kind of standard installation.

kates: LOL

I wouldn't necessarily say that all-gas provides a significant advantage over dual fuel but they're comparable. Some serious bakers prefer electric ovens because they feel they provide more even heat but many professional bakers use gas ovens. Good gas ovens do provide even heat and also more moist heat - great for baking bread and roasting meats and poultry. I have an all-gas DCS range and am very pleased with the oven.

Take a look at this Capital Precision - 4 burners PLUS a 25K BTU dedicated wok burner - for $3900. $1000 less than the Viking you are being pushed to.

The BlueStar is open burners and a bit more expensive and then there is the Capital Culinarian which also has open burners at $4600.

There are many options other than Viking and Wolf for ventilation...the range and hood DO NOT need to come from the same company.

Here is a link that might be useful: Capital Precision

My appliance dealer told me all gas ranges were more than the Viking I was looking at, which I have trouble believing.

All-Gas costing more than Dual-Fuel? What is this person smoking?

I have been reading this thread carefully and everyone has given great advice and stories of personal experience.

Want to know how to stop an appliance salesperson in his or her tracks? Arm yourself with knowledge and call them on it. Have appliance comparisons in hand. Don't be afraid to say, "well, I heard differing opinions about *insert name of appliance and brand name here*. Let me show you the umpteen owner reviews. My budget is W, I want X and I won't tolerate Y or Z." Not to offend anyone, but appliance salespeople are worse than some car dealers. Pushy, opinionated and don't "drive" the very products that they sing so many praises about.

"Given that induction requires direct pan to surface contact, how does a wok work? I guess they must make some kind of flat-bottomed wok specifically for induction?"

They do,clinresga, but we have seen few posts here as to how those flatbottomed Woks work. I do recall one positive post, but as I mentioned, posts on Woking with Induction are
"few and far between".

The other thing would be, (I think), is that you would be stirring that which is within the Wok more, instead of shaking the Wok, as I suspect most Wok users do??? (alto I don't claim to be an expert on Woking.)

Just wanted to let you know that YEP, there are Woks made for induction, buttt we need to know more about them and how they work, but we can start a separate thread on that.

Gary

Yeah, your dealer is assuming that you didn't do any homework. He almost hooked you. A Viking suite was putting money in his pocket.

I'm a believer in hiring an expert/professional for direction and advice but I'm also responsible for what I do with it. Whether it's a salesman, doctor, lawyer, etc. I still have to do my research and ask questions.

You are the only one invested in YOU.

Well you asked, we spoke, you didn't listen. Best of luck, can't figure out why you think your experience will be better.

I have had a stupid viking 30" dual fuel range and hood for 3 years now and am very happy with both despite their lack of intelligence.

Sounds like this salesman is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. If you do not switch salesmen then be very careful when dealing with this man. He is not well informed at best and not looking out for your interests at all at worst.

Have you been reading any of the messages?!
Today I ordered
Range
Hood
Fridge
DW
Wine

acw: this thread got so long I think some got behind, but I think you are a classic GW success story of someone who (contrary to my initial opinion) came with an open mind, triggered a very lively discussion, listened hard, and made what I think are great choices. I won't jinx you by predicting great success, but these are all appliance choices that would get the "seal of approval" over on the Appliance forum, where pickiness reigns. Hope you love the appliances, I am pretty sure you will!

Congradulations on your decisions acw6455.

Please review the appliances after you have used them for a while, particularly the Wolf range. How does it Wok, is the heat sufficient for effective Woking? "Maybe" not all of us need the "Rangin' Inferno ranges" for Woking?,---Inquiring minds wanna know! (LOL)!

Is the Range an AG, and if so, how do you like the performance of the Oven/s.

Gary

"I have had a stupid viking 30" dual fuel range and hood for 3 years now and am very happy with both despite their lack of intelligence."

LOL I hope I can report the same in three years and longer even!

acw6455 - I think you made great choices and I'm sure you will be very happy with them.

dodge59 - I've been wokking on DCS 17.5 and 16K sealed burners for nearly 10 years and they're more than adequate. At the time, Bluestar only had an 18K burner. Except for wokking and boiling water, I never need to crank the burners up full blast.

@sugarcookies - sorry! I should have said we need *more* solid current feedback. your posts.certainly qualify, and I am grateful for them. Did not mean to minimize your contributions, really.

Thanks for the input Weissman.

I have a 2 burner (Open burner) DCS out on my patio, next to the BBQ, they are huge burners, no idea what they are, but I guess I should try some stir frying and Woking on that really hot succer!!
Gary

I think Viking ranges are the appliance that people love to hate. Ever since Sub-zero and Wolf merged, it seems that Wolf has become far more popular. I think Wolf makes a very good range but my preference would be a Viking. I had a Viking range and loved it. I don't think the Viking can simmer at as low temperature quite as well as a Wolf, but other than that, I find the electronic panel on the Wolf annoying. I also don't care for its bulkier, squared off look. I currently have a Lacanche and it performs beautifully - both the ovens and the stove top. Bottom line, these larger, professional looking stoves (and I include my LC) are really attractive, give us a lot of options and make our kitchens look great, and are fun to use. But, our moms and grandmas cooked fabulous meals on much less, so these appliances will likely not make us better cooks. There isn't anything that's perfect, so it's likely six of one, half a dozen of the other. Go with what you love and think you'll want to use and forget the rest.

By all means....NO, do not buy anything Viking. I worked there for over 10 years in management and the products are absolutely inferior. The company does NOT care about quality, they care about quantity. They will build and ship a broken product (well aware that it will fail in the customer's home, and ship it anyway).

It's strictly ran by a couple of elite upper guys and if you buck what they say, you're fired.

Just to give you an idea, we ran out of broiler pans (this is a part that goes in all ovens). I stopped the production line. One of the "elites" walked by and asked "why is the line off". I informed him that we were out of broiler pans. He said "You turn that line BACK ON and ship those ranges."

Before doing so, I typed up a note that said "Dear customer, at the time your range was built, we were out of broiler pans. This only affects the broiler function. Please call us at 800-xxxxxxxx and we will gladly ship you the part at no cost." --- I then placed a copy of this note in each range. The "elite manager" walked by again, noticed the printout and asked "What the hell is this? Remove this paperwork and ship the ranges."

This is only the tip of the iceberg. Oh, and ASKO does NOT make Viking dishwashers (anymore). They are made by Viking in Greenwood, MS and guess what? They just had a recall on them for catching on FIRE! You can see this recall info if you go to Viking's website (home page), look at the very bottom, you will see a link that says "Safety recall" in blue text. There, you will also find recalls on other products including about 25,000 refrigerators which had VERY heavy doors that fell off and injured several people.

Proof's in the pudding........ stay away from the "elephant with lipstick".

We had been satisfied with our all gas open burner 48" Viking Range for 7 years but we recently had to have a service call for a broken ignitor for the small oven. $500 for the call and part! AND it turns out the ignitors are only expected to last for about 5 years. Our range has 3-4 of them, one each for the ovens and I believe 2 for the 6 burners--is there another one for the griddle? Yikes!

I can't imagine spending more on each service call than my very good friend just spent on a GE stove that functions very well.

We thought there was very little that could go wrong with a gas stove. This feels like a major rip off. I won't be tempted by anything Viking in the future.

You pay a lot for the big a*s nameplate. Any product that is made for them is made to their specifications and is not necessarily a reflection on the supplier.

Does anyone know of any place that buys Viking Appliances? We redid our kitchen 4 years ago and bought a Viking Refrigerator (mint julep). We use the freezer in the garage. The Viking is so specific and I'm afraid we won't be able to sell it even though we spent $$$$ on it. We did have to have it serviced once. They completely redid the insides and it works great now. I'm just tired of going to the garage. I live in southern California.

I have an entire Viking kitchen and can tell you that I would never consider purchasing them again. Not only have I spent over $1500 repairing my refrigerator ($6,000 cost) over the past 9 years, but have also paid over $250 to fix my $1,500 micro/convection oven. I have lived with duct tape holding the button on this microwave for 3 years as I refuse to pay the $500+ in order to fix it. I am told that the entire sub control system would need to be replaced. After doing research, I found that my Viking is actually a Sharp in disguise. Her is a real money saver... If your button on your over the range microwave has popped out, DO NOT allow them to replace the entire subunit at $533. Instead, order Sharp part number FDECAB029MRK0, it is the Open Button Assembly. I bought mine from Partstore.com for about $30. With a little finesse you can remove your old button with no tools. If you remove the stainless steel cover over your existing button, you can place it over the Sharp part and then gently place it back in. Be advised, the reason your button probably popped out was because a small piece of plastic broke inside, likely as a result of steam from your stovetop weakening the plastic. Please be sure to use your fan when cooking on the stove top, or do not use the burner directly below button. Hope this helps, I saved $500 by doing my homework!

I am not going to defend Viking but I do have a Viking hood. And we installed it DIY, finding in the process that it simply was not made so that the blower would fit into the hood -- someone had to come out and fix it for us. I don't think we had to pay for him but it does raise questions about what is going on with that company.

I did walk around the high end appliance store turning on the different hoods over and over again and I cannot say that I thought the Viking was any louder than the others. It is loud but effective.

Since there have been some new comments posted to this old thread, I thought I should update you all on my experience with Viking since the installation three years ago. I hope I'm not jinxing myself when I say that, thankfully, I have had no problems with the gas range since the initial issue. The vent hood is working fine, as is the drawer microwave. I replaced my old KA dishwasher with Bosch 800 Plus series and I love it. Very quiet and cleans the dishes my KA wouldn't. I still haven't replaced my fridge, but when I do, it won't be a Viking. My dream fridge replacement is a SubZero, but I doubt I'm ever going to have the money to put that in. I'll probably look for a less expensive built in when the time comes.

Overall, I am happy with my Viking appliances and their performance thus far. However, knowing what I know now about Viking and their overall reliability and customer service records, I'm going to opt for a Wolf range if/when I have the opportunity to do another kitchen.

RUN AWAY from Viking!!! Ours has leaked gas for the 7 Months we have owned it, 7 service calls, still leaks, and it's rusting on the top front too!

Viking sucks. I have owned Thermador and GE Monogram. Fridgidare from Home Depot is better than Viking.

Everything is better and chaeper than Viking. I know, Won't honor their warranty, ship product late, ignorant customer service people. LIfes too short to deal with such a horrible disgusting company. A $25,000 customer of their junk, I should know.