I don't know about fair, but my first thought is that IF the daughter's signature was needed to list the house (and are you sure it was needed?) the Realtor doesn't have a valid contract on the listing side or on the purchase agreement.

I know you said the house belongs to a trust, but her signature may not have been needed if someone else has been appointed to oversee the trust.

My thought is: some lawyers are going to be making money trying to straighten out this mess.

It never ever ceases to amaze the greediness of family members to other family members. What a shame!

Look, this is ridiculous. Get off the forum and get on the phone with a good lawyer. All we can give you is sympathy, and what you need is the protection of the law. Oh, and everybody reading this should write a will RIGHT NOW.

My original thought before I got side tracked was how do you figure what is a fair price? In December, there was a brand new house; not sure if it was completed, so I have no clue if carpet, flooring and counters were able to be picked; selling for $250. When you price a house, do you take into consideration the driveway that was put in as well as what was spent on the ceiling fans?

At the time of listing, as I said, houses were not selling. The house was listed end of August, there were no bids for 5 months other than the daughter.

There was a will, which was rewritten 6 days before he died. He knew he was dying at this point, the clause was supposed to be put in for the daughter to purchase house but he did not read the change (was too weak) and trusted the daughter (that was in charge of talking to the attorney) would have it added or wouldn't give the daughter problems buying the house.

He had cancer, he moved near the daughter because they were really close. The daughter was the one taking care of his medical decisions (not the mother), spending every day with him in a hospital 1 hour away. He was hospitalised 5 weeks the 1st time, then 2 & 3 weeks a few other times. When he was not at the hospital, she drove him 3 times a week for blood transfusions. The mother went to the hospital maybe a handful of times.

The house as I said was put in a trust because he was afraid the mother would sell it and piss away the money. The mother wasn't an original trustee / executor of the trust. She was added (6 days before he died) because the other daughter (3 that was in charge of the will writes) lives on the West coast. That daughter didn't want to keep flying out. Supposedly, the mother isn't even allowed to sign on the house because she'll benefit from the sale, so she can't act as trustee.

The realtor had an open house. Daughter went to it and informed him about the house being in the trust, etc. He said he didn't care & that as far as he's concerned the mother is the only one needed. IMO, he was very unprofessional, going back & telling the mother & 2 other daughters everything that was said.

Oh, and everybody reading this should write a will RIGHT NOW.
You're correct about writing a will. Not only that, but don't trust someone else to do it.

There is a lot of animosity towards the daughter that cared for the father, jealousy is more like it. Everyone was jealous of the relationship between the daughter, her son and the father. They were very close. The father, who's body was shutting down for 3+ days when he went, loved the daughter so much he hung on until a DNA test could be done; dying 2 hours after the cheek swab. It came out that the mother cheated on him, and she may not be his. He knew this, but kept the secret for 41 years. I'm sure this only added to the other daughters animosity, how could he have such a close bond with a kid that may not biologically be his. The only reason this daughter wasn't put in charge of the will writes was because she wasn't the "accountant" of the family like daughter 3.

There is so much extraneous information here that I cannot follow your point. What is your question? As for the daughter mess, that is for an attorney to sort through.

"My original thought before I got side tracked was how do you figure what is a fair price? When you price a house, do you take into consideration the driveway that was put in as well as what was spent on the ceiling fans?"

Is that your question?

If that is what you are asking, then the answer is that you price a house on comps (comparable home selling prices in the area). You don't take into account, dollar for dollar, every upgrade that was put into the house. It doesn't matter how much money you have invested in the house (except in terms of whether you can afford to sell it in the current market). What matters is pricing it competitively with other similar homes in the area so that it sells. The upgrades that you speak of are often helpful in making one house stand out from another on the market, but dollar for dollar, don't expect to get the money back that you spent on upgrades. (Read back posts on this forum; this question has already been answered many times over).

The legal saga really has nothing to do with this forum.

Good luck.

The legal saga, is the sellers realtor knowingly listed a house that couldn't be sold until all parties agreed, which is another reason I posted, because I wanted opinions from people that appear to work in the business. How can a realtor legally list the house under these circumstances? I'm curious if anyone's delt with a situation like this and what are possible outcomes? Can she bring charges against the agent?

Can the daughter go to the sellers realtor office and demand to see the contract since technically she already owns the house as a trustee? Do they have to let her see it?

Everyone posting is right--this is a situation for a lawyer. It's also a situation for a therapist. I'm not being snarky. This is a genuinely painful and highly emotional situation that has nothing, really, to do with the house, fair prices, or the costs of landscaping. It has to do with family, feeling unloved, feeling betrayed, trust issues, anger. . . If the daughter is wise, she will extricate herself from the situation, grieve for her father and get on with her life, rather than prolonging the turmoil. But as a novelist and a former estate planner, I suspect the drama will play on--

Everyone, go make a will and those of us with wonderful parents and siblings, go give them a hug.

And now, back to real estate.

Just walk away. It could take years to resolve this type of thing.
I purchased a house about 5 years ago from an estate. One sister lived there but could not afford to buy out the other. It took a lawsuit by the sister trying to sell to force the sister occupying the house to allow the sale to proceeed, and even then it was under a court order.
It took them almost 4 years to sort out the mess before I purchased.

"How can a realtor legally list the house under these circumstances?"

This depends on how the trust documents are worded.
In some cases all trustees must sign, but not every case. Since you are not a party to this you have no say or ability to even see the documents unless they have ben recorded.
The terms of the trust are private.

"Can the daughter go to the sellers realtor office and demand to see the contract since technically she already owns the house as a trustee? Do they have to let her see it?"

Trustees do not "own the house". They hold it in trust and manage it. There name may not be on a deed at all.
Depending on the wording of the trust she may have anything from veto power over the sale to a vote among other trustees, to no power at all.

Unless you have a long time to wait, steer clear.

This is what I would day if "daughter" was a friend of mine - walk away. She wasn't raised in the house, it doesn't hold years of fond memories. In this market there is a real risk that she would overpay for the house even if she paid $270. It's a modular. I don't know about where she is, but where I am they are much less desirable and appraise lower and appreciate slower than "stick built". She will get her share of the money via the trust. Walk away.

Roselover,

My deepest sympathy for the loss of your father.

You are under the impression that all the beneficiaries of a trust are required to sign the legal documents where the trust is a party. That is not true. The trustee has authority to sign on behalf of the trust. You're not the trustee; your mother is. (Coincidentally, my older sister was the trustee of a trust created by my mother before she died, so I have some experience with this issue. Plus, I happen to be a lawyer, although my specialty is not in the trust field.) Beneficiary or not, I believe that, as the trustee, your mother had authority to list the house without you or your sisters' signatures. The same is going to be true of the closing documents. But double check this with a lawyer because I'm not in full possession of the facts.

I can't help but feel sorry for your mother since she's being pulled in several directions by her daughters. That can't be pleasant. OTOH, she could have done a better job of dealing with the whole matter by being more forthright with you all along. It seems to me that she decided some time ago to sell the house to a third party rather than risk a permanent rift with your sister(s). But rather than trigger more emotional encounters, she simply tried as best she could to ignore your repeated offers to buy the house. That was unwise and just made the situation worse.

Bottom line -- it doesn't seem to me that the realtor has done anything wrong here, but is following the wishes of the trustee (your mother) of the trust that owns the house.

As far as "fair" price goes, that would be whatever price the buyer offered and your mother accepted. Since the house is already under contract, the fair price issue would only become relevant again should this deal fall through. Right now, it's not.

I strongly second rubypearl. It's time to try and put your anger and disappointment aside and move on.

Families and money really don't mix. A similar thing happened to my grandmother when her mother died.

It seems to me that the daughter who wants the house has 2 options. 1: Hire a lawyer and take the rest of the family to court. Having first gotten a court order staying the sale to the current buyers. 2: Write off the entire thing to a learning experience. Tell the family 'don't call me; I'll call you' and go off and mourn her father in peace. Keep the son the heck away from all these greedy a*holes lest he pick up their attitudes.

Seeing as there are lots of houses out there, I think I'd go for option #2. Being as I have a problem w/ the whole 'christian forgiveness' thing, I'd probably give the mother and sisters a piece of my mind they'd not soon forget, and then never speak to them again. But you'll have to handle it however you see fit.

Good luck, and sorry about your dad.

Is your question really, "Is this fair?" Maybe, maybe not.

It doesn't really matter if it's fair or not. Life isn't fair, and a bunch of strangers on the internet are not going to convince the mother (the trustee) to be fair.

It doesn't really matter if it's fair or not. Life isn't fair, and a bunch of strangers on the internet are not going to convince the mother (the trustee) to be fair.

What do you want to bet that if the mother was "fair" to the one daughter, the other two daughters would cry "foul" ?

I feel badly for all involved - they lost an close family member (maybe the linchpin who held the family together?), and instead of getting/giving support through this difficult period, there's fighting and "not fair"-isms.

My $0.02? It's only a house. There are lots of other houses. It's not worth it (to me) to sacrifice one's family for a house.

I also wanted to add that it might not have mattered from a legal point of view if the father had added to his will that the OP should buy the house.

I believe it would depend on the type of trust involved whether such clause would be legally binding on the survivng spouse. The trust, not the father, owns the house. We don't know who the founded the trust. It could have been the father alone or it could have been both parents. We also don't know if either one had the power to alter its terms.

Most married couples own their home jointly with right of survivorship. That means the surviving spouse gets full title to the house when the other one dies. If that had been the case here, then the father's wishes or directions in his will concerning who should buy it would have no legal effect whatsoever. It wouldn't be his legal right to dictate what his joint-owner can or cannot do.

The same reasoning could well apply to this situation, depending on the factors I mentioned earlier. Of course, no such limitation was actually put in his new will, so we're really talking about whether the intention the OP says he had that she should buy the house should be honored by the family after his death. I'm not so sure it's all that cut and dried that the mother has an absolute moral obligation to do so. You could reasonably argue from the info we have that his intention was unfair to both his other daughters and to his wife, as well.

Like others on here, I'm unclear as to why this almost brand-new house is so important or so desirable. After all, the father barely had time to live in it, and the description doesn't make it sound like anything special. There's a lot more going on here than meets the eye.

"Most married couples own their home jointly with right of survivorship. "

Or in states that allow the method, 'tenants by the entirety'.
This is a method of holding title restricted to married couples I the states that allow it.
The property is owned by "Bill & Mary Jones" as a single entity.
Neither owns part, they both own all.
It may not be subdivided, neither person individually can obligate the property, and the survivor becomes the sole owner on death of the other no matter what a will may say.
It also stops judgments cold unless they cab be levied against both parties at the same time.

I'm regretting adding the extra info, but I did, so I will answer.

My dad & I were very close, he & I had a relationship together like no other family member had. I worked with him all of my life for minimum wage and gave up my dreams of cutting hair - I do not regret it.

My dad's dream was to live 7 blocks from me. I'd moved over an hour from our original town. He'd retired, we were going to sell the gas station stuff and be a team again. We'd then build computers together. Dad got sick right before it closed. I knew he was dying. I planted his veggie garden, and flower gardens. I saw him almost every day. Being in his new house, seeing the flowers and veggies, his face lit up, he was the happiest I'd ever seen him, yet he was dying.

This house how ever "normal" or "nothing special" is special to me because dad & I spent a lot of time while he was building it and after he'd moved in. I have memories of our last Christmas together. I wanted to make the memories in that house that my dad wasn't able to. The house holds more memories for me then the one I grew up in.

I was paying for the house. I was not asking for a free ride. My one sister lives on the west coast, while another could care less about it. She and my dad hadn't spoken much since the early 90's. The only reason they don't want me to live in the house is because they want to take that from me, spite. They know how much the house meant to my dad (he was here every week taking photos of the whole thing) and want to hurt me more by not letting me buy it. Everyone was jealous of my relationship with him. I know one thing, I could never be this evil to my own child no matter how close I was to them, they are still my blood. They will have to answer to their maker when their time comes.

I appreciate all of the feedback. Trust me, this has not been easy for me, and some of the questions asked, I've already asked myself. If it is not meant to be, then so be it; I will still move. There isn't any property in this town. My daughter goes to school here. This house (which I helped dad pick out) is perfect for my family because it has more features then what I have. I will not be able to find another house with the big attic that I can possibly make into a room. So my daughter will have to go to school some where else.

brickeyee -- you're right of course. I was trying to keep things simple. The small differences between tenancy by the entirety and joint ownership with right of survivorship aren't really relevant to the present issues.

roselover -- I'm sure it hasn't been easy. I'm very sorry your family is so at odds.

One thing you might do is request a consultation with the lawyer who drafted the trust documents to find out what legal rights you do or do not have regarding the sale of the house. Of course, if you do have any power to interfer with the sale, that still doen't necessarily mean you should. You would have to sort out the pros and cons for yourself. But if you don't have that power, then knowing that would bring some closure to you.

Without seeing the terms of the trust (and they are private) there is no way to tell much of anything.

If the 'trust' was a revocable living trust with the mother as trustee, it becomes irrevocable on the death of the father and the mother likely owns the property, no matter what the will might say.

Ok, sec, did mom and dad own house jointly? In other words, how is title taken in the property?

You mentioned that the house is in a trust and that not everyone is aware of contents of the trust. When my mother passed away a year ago, she also had a trust (and some problems within it) but it was legally required that a copy of the trust and the will would be sent to all named beneficiaries of the trust, and all the heirs at law (which would include all children). This was in California -- I don't know if that would be the same in other states. So I would think that all the heirs should be aware of the contents of the trust and the will.
I believe that it would be extremely difficult to sell such property if the heirs are in disagreement because of title issues.
Susan

brickeyee

You raise good points. That's exactly why I and many others on here advised her to consult an attorney who specializes in the field.

jeff147

Although it's hard to be sure from the OP's posts, it seems that the house was placed in the trust,, so very likely the trust is the legal owner. But even that's not certain.

Susanna

Once again, it depends on the terms of the trust.

Thank you for the feedback. I don't want to post too much about specifics right now. I don't want this post coming up on google if one of them googles my name.

My main concern was my offer, verses what was asked for the house. I'd been told that the house was very over priced for the market. I tried to take things I put into the house into consideration when making the offer as my husband didn't want to go higher. Had it been me, I would have paid what she 1st asked just to have the house for sentimental reasons. It's very hard to know my "mother" is putting me through all of this pain after the pain of finding out I may not be my fathers biological daughter.

My dad came here from another country with nothing. This was the 1st house he'd built, so it meant a lot to him.

If there was a husband & wife on the title of the house (as is usually the case), when one dies, the other one receives title. I just took my neighbor, a recent widow, to the court house to do this & it took less than 5 minutes. There might be more involvement with a trust. But, I'm guessing that the mother has title to the house and if she signs a listing, that is perfectly OK.
Good luck
Susan

If it's jointly owned with rights of survivorship, the spouse inherits the house in our state.

I think, as long as one doesn't verbalize any bigotry, one can sell, or not sell a house to anyone she wants, for a variety of reasons.

One neighbor of ours opted to be not very responsive to a hard-living and -drinking woman who looked at their house. They envisioned the house they'd made into a home being destroyed in a "party hearty" atmosphere, and didn't want to leave that legacy to their neighbors and friends left in the area.

The house we ended up buying was under contract once before, and it fell through. The seller told us (she ended up living next door) that one man in the neighborhood offered to buy the house. She suspected he was buying it for his (no-account, arrested for several violent crimes before he was 25)grandson. Her agent told her there was another offer, and the name...and she said she just shook her head and said she wasn't selling her home to that family.

When she died some years later, her son wanted to buy her trailer next door. Although none of the other children wanted it, a couple of his siblings thought it would be "unfair" for him to "get" his mother's house, even if he was buying it.

I've always treated my dad's house as my own. Right before Christmas, when I brought my mother over her gift, she mentioned the sink didn't work. None of the guys could fix it. I took the part she'd bought and put it on. It was a little complicated, but I did it even after the way she treated me. I didn't think twice about doing it until after I left. I wondered why I didn't think to not do it. If it wasn't for my husband & I planting, there would be no gardens. We also tried to put down grass but dad died and she didn't take care of it. Back breaking work spreading top soil.

This whole thing is spite by my younger sister. She thinks I said something about her that I didn't, and won't let my mother sell me the house. My father; if he was buried would be rolling over in his grave knowing what is going on.

I'm ok as a buyer as long as no one else wanted it. What kind of crap is that?

Roselvr, your story is dreadfully sad. Not only have you lost your beloved father, but your remaining family is being torn apart by what appear to be longstanding rivalries, secrets, and resentments. The house looks like the least of it. Your grief is being intensified and prolonged by all this ill will. I in no way want to chase you off this forum, but have you considered discussing your feelings in the Grieving Forum? You may find some comfort there that we cannot give you here.

Yes, I've been there & contribute. Was going to make my own post on my dad's 1 year anniversary (2/6) but found it hard to put into words what I wanted to say.