Any chance your counter could be set up that the rental period is 17 months instead of 24? You could cut her some slack on the sale price, and turn it into a positive for both you - you won't face capital gains taxes, and she can get the house a little cheaper.

It all hinges on what she can qualify for in 17 months of course.

And, the bogeyman in this deal is what happens if she cannot qualify for a mortgage in either 17 or 24 months?

Oy - It's too bad you're in a situation where these are the only options you have to sell your home. Even with the grave market in MI, is there anything you can do to make the house more saleable? I'm only asking because you're taking a huge leap of faith for something that may not come to fruition. Yet, this is better than nothing.

Does the income generated from the rent she pays get included in the capital gains or is that separate? If it's separate, would that put you and your dh into a higher tax bracket where it affects your taxes considerably?

personally, even if I was desperate to sell, I wouldn't ever accept a rent to own deal. Just too many things that can go wrong with it, one being as mfbenson said, she may not qualify when the rental period is up.

Have you ever posted your listing? Maybe we can help with that to give honest feedback.

Could you provide seller financing during the 2 year period that she is rebuilding her finances instead of doing a rent to own? You would write a contract with her paying you monthly payments with a balloon payment due in two years, at which time she could refinance. I'm not an expert, but I believe that she would technically own the house during this period so it wouldn't screw you up tax wise. I think that she would be the owner with you being the first lien holder.

Nancy - no advice here just empathy from a Michigan native. I love the place, want to retire there. Its just sad that it always seems to take a beating financially.

I would also post this on the Household finances board. Some of the same people here but also some others that seem pretty smart at this stuff.

Terriks, isn't that a land contract/contract for deed? If not, please explain it a bit, it sounds like what we need.

We had not thught about having to add the rent income to our income for tax purposes. With our regular mortgage payment of $906, and the HELOC at $350, would we even have any incoome to report? I have read the IRS pages on selling a home, but not on renting out one yet. That is the next step.

Terriks, isn't that a land contract/contract for deed?

Yes, It would be a land contract. Again, I'm no expert, but maybe it would work for you.

I thought a land contract and seller financing were two different animals....no? Wow, where have I been???

Have you looked at her credit report or are you going by what she's telling you? I think I'd have to look at a TRUE COPY of a credit report that lists ALL the info you need to have before you step into it.

(Someone once tried to get past us with a dummied up version of a credit report with their name on it is why I stressed a TRUE COPY)

I know it's not easy to turn away, but sometimes... I wish you the best...and hope you sell soon.

I thought a land contract and seller financing were two different animals

They are different, or rather, seller financing includes vehicles other than land contract.

For example, seller financing may take the form of a private mortgage that is held by the seller instead of by a bank. There are even ways to institutionalize it, such as Circle Lending, that make it work like a bank mortgage except that it is the seller's money that is at risk.

The issue is that a buyer who cannot qualify for a conventional mortgage is not a good risk for a private mortgage, either. In the olden days, people who could not obtain conventional mortgages (because of poor credit history or lack of down payment, but now that 5% or zero down payments are possible, the latter is less common) often bought on land contracts.

In general, a land contract gives more protection to the seller and little or none to the buyer; a private mortgage gives more protection to the buyer.

A number of years ago I sold a house through a lease with option to purchase to a couple with credit problems. They were not in a position to complete the purchase by the time the option expired, but did continue to rent the house and eventually bought it.

Regardless of the vehicle you use, you have to expect that a buyer or tenant who cannot qualify for a mortgage will probably be late with rent or payments more than once. My tenants never missed a payment, but sometimes they had to make two half-payments in one month instead of paying on schedule.

Here is a link that might be useful: Circle Lending - owner financing

mfbenson, no 17 months won't work. She has a good idea of how long it will take to pay off her husband's debts and be able to get a mortgage, and 24 months is about as fast as she can do it. We tried the shorter time, and it was no go on her end.

If she can't buy after 24 months, we have a house in which someone else has been paying the mortgages for two years - instead of us! We get the house and the $4800 from the $200/mo she paid toward the house. She gets back her $3700 down payment. We then get to repaint, refinish floors, and redo everything we already did to get it in shape to sell.

Sparksals, we did a lot to get it in shape to sell. It is freshly painted; hardwood floors all refinished; newer windows, siding, gutters, driveway, porch, and doors; landscaping done; replaced the flooring in the stairs to the basement and garage; replaced a painted bookcase that opened to a hidden cedar closet with stained oak and put oak trim on the stairway nearby; all repairs were done. We redid the ceiling in the bathroom; remodeled the kitchen; scrubbed, primed and painted the basement. The electrical service was updated in 1994 and the heating system and ducts replaced, air added, whole house filter and humidifier added. We added a heater/vent/fan in the bath and heated floor next to the dog washing station at the back door. The kitchen is far above any other around and the listing price for the house is average for the square footage in the area. We know we are losing money on the deal, it is a given. Our family and needs changed and we needed to leave. We were not planning on having to sell, so over-improved because we thought it was for US!

The market just sucks!

We checked into the land contract idea and our first mortgage holder says that the mortgage contract prohibits us selling on a land contract.

Redcurls, we are working on reaching an agreement on price, then will look into finances after we have that agreed upon. The reasoning on this is that we will only look into her private info if we can agree on a price, not before. The realtor's Century 21 office is connected to a financing company. If we come to an agreement on price (which is being done verbally), the buyer will let the financing co. run the credit report. We will not see it ourselves, but will get a report on it. Remember, we know that she was married to a guy who went bankrupt, left her with her half of the debt (she could not declare bankruptcy because her finances were not that bad), and she is working hard to pay off all the debt with two jobs. Right now, we would expect her credit report to look bad. If her credit history suggests that this is a one-time problem, then she will complete a lease application. As part of that process, we will see her income and employers' names. I already know that she is a registered nurse working for the county. She is an MDS nurse, a specialty that can always get her jobs. We are so short of nurses around here that several thousand commute from Canada daily. I believe she can make the payments, she just cannot qualify for a mortgage right now.

Okmoreh, I did not want to give Circle Lending all my info in order to download their program. The house we are selling is now mortgaged for about what we are going to sell it for. We are not going to have a wad of money to give to a lending company to self-mortgage the house. We have been paying the mortgages on the old house and the mortgage on the new house without problems because we follow that quotation up at the top of the forum. It will be sooo nice to have someone else paying for the old house! So do Circle Lending's programs for owner-financing require that we have the house paid for? Mostly paid for? Somewhat paid for? A tiny teeny bit paid for?

You do not need to use Circle Lending or any other institution - the only reasons to do so are (a) if you think that the buyer would be more reliable paying an intermediary than writing a check directly to you every month, and (b) if you have no other way to handle the administration. It is legal to do it all yourself; IRS forms even have spaces for reporting the information on interest of mortgages held directly by an individual.

I guess I don't understand how it works. Does Circle lending do these on homes aleady mortaged to their full value? They won't say without me giving them lots of information.

Out of curiosity, who gets the interest on the $3700 escrow funds? Are you viewing that as a damage deposit? What if she damages the house? Not likely given her history, but you need to think about that.

Essentially, is the $4800 you will make in this 2 year deal worth the possible cost of repairs, damage, capital gains that will occur should she back out? Is there a realtor's commission in this deal? How does that affect the bottom line in terms of the $4800 you will make?

I really don't envy your position. From what you described, it sounds like a lovely home, but as you said, over-improved for the area.

How much is the uncertainty worth if you took a bit of a loss on the house by reducing the price rather than renting it out?

Sorry, I misunderstood a key point.

If your first mortgage includes a due-on-sale clause, and you do not have much equity, you cannot offer any kind of seller financing. If your buyer cannot obtain financing from another source, you may elect to lease it to her with an option, simply rent or lease with no option, or reject the offer altogether. But if your cost basis is close to the anticipated sale price, you don't need to worry about any deadline for capital gains - which you said at the beginning - so the lease with option is OK, as long as you keep in mind that there is no guarantee that the purchase option will ever be exercised.

Okmoreh, thanks. I figured the seller financing was not an option for us. Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the capital gains issue.

We will be leasing for the 24 months. I would think that the interest on the $4800 is ours, the interest on the $3700 is hers if she never buys, Sparksals. The realtor has not mentioned the lease damage deposit. With the young couple who he was expecting to make an offer, he said they would pay the standard first and last month's rent as a deposit. (but We didn't think they were going to have money to put "down" on the house, either) He has not mentioned a cleaning deposit with Cindy (the nurse) yet. We'll ask. I guess that is how I am seeing the $4800, as the money to refresh the house if she bails on us. Oh, yes, there is a realtor's fee. Our guy gets 2.5%, hers 3%. I don't know at this time if she has a realtor. She saw the house with our guy, but she does have someone helping her with advice and paperwork. So our guy may get the 5.5% himself. He's been holding open houses, paying for fliers, etc. since August 1, so he's earned it.

Oh, Sparksals, we have reduced and reduced price and with the offer we have coming in $15,000 below asking (10%), it is hard to imagine lowering it more and selling for even less! We have a HELOC for $20k open on our new house to use if we must bring money to closing. If we sell for about $143, we will be bringing $12K to closing if we sell right now. At least with Cindy, we can put away only $300 a month of her payment in savings and not have to bring anything but that to closing in two years. Yes, we lose the time value of the money, though. In that way (if you ignore the time value of the money), we seem to come out ahead by leasing the house for two years. We will have our mortgage and taxes paid, have lower balance on the first mortgage, pay down the HELOC, and never have to charge anything to the new HELOC at closing. DH and his spreadsheets....

And we are locking in on a price NOW, so if the house loses value even more (which it might), we will be able to sell it at the 2007 price. I think it is unlikely that MI's economy will recover that much in two years.

So what is to stop her from bailing if the market declines more? Say another 20k so it is worth it to lose her deposit?Seems like you have all the downside risk and no upside reward

When is the realtor commission due? What if she does not buy or leaves after a few months

One point to remember about capital gains: even if the selling price would not generate any capital gain today, you will have some if the house is leased or rented for any significant time.

This is because, during the period that it is a rental, you will depreciate it on your income taxes. This can produce a tax saving.

However, when the sale finally takes place, the IRS will require you to reduce your cost basis by the amount of the depreciation previously claimed. This "recapture" will result in some capital gain.

Don't think that you can avoid depreciation recapture by not claiming depreciation as you go. The IRS rules require recapturing the depreciation even if you did not claim it during the rental period, so it is better to claim it and get whatever tax saving it generates at the time.

okmoreh, that is the kind of info we wanted to hear. I am up to my ears in busy right now and have not sat down and read the tax info on renting out the house.

Saphire, I imagine we will have a standard lease agreement with penalty for breaking the lease. Those are the details we will hash out once we have a deal on price. If she leaves, I have a house again. She does love the house and she is the one who wants to secure the price now by doing the contract to buy the house before she starts leasing. The realtor gets paid when we close on August 1, 2009. Of course she may leave. Anything could happen to any of us in the next two years. One more thing keeping her nearby is that he mom lives in the county nursing home where she works. Your concerns for the deal are all valid. Remember that we have been paying mortgages on this house for eighteen months since we moved out. If she leaves after a few months, at least we had HER paying the mortgages for that time. I would never chose this route if other options were out there. There has been a lot of traffic through the house this spring, but people are so slow to commit in this market!

We had a professional appraisal done on the house a year ago April. It was worth $165K based on sales in the past six months. A house down the street that was a little smaller, but fully brick and with a finished basement (but without our gardens, big yard, remodeled kitchen, refinished hardwood) sold for $163K a month before we went for sale FSBO. Our realtor has sold four or five houses in the neighborhood this past year, including that one. He probably has sold more houses than other agencies combined. We are at the lowest $ per square foot on the market right now for a house our size (1450 sq ft, huge for a neighborhood of 1000 sq ft homes). The market here is just miserable. Ford cut jobs, GM cut jobs, Chrysler is being bought by a private equity firm and none of us knows what that will bring. DH is an IT guy for Chrysler. The county is cutting jobs, the State is cutting jobs. I am a contractor for the county mental health agency and my job may decrease or disappear in the next six months. My remodeling contractor on the kitchen is thinking of leaving the state because he can't get enough jobs. He is working for wages for someone else instead of working his magic on remodeling jobs. In this climate, the old saying is true. "A bird in the hand...."

Nancy, Will you be talking to your accountant about the various options? I sure hope so.

kec01:
"Nancy, Will you be talking to your accountant about the various options? I sure hope so."

I have always wondered about that. Folks say that all the time - talk to your accountant, talk to your tax adviser, talk to your lawyer. I don't know anybody who "has" one of any of these professionals! People in my world will seek out one of these professionals when needed. We end up with strangers who we were referred to by word of mouth or by the yellow pages. We don't know how reliable the person is and have to guess whether to take the advice, or not.

I really don't mean to sound snotty. Do all of you have these kind of professionals in your lives? On retainer? I have always done my own taxes. I read well, and can decipher IRS publications. I did moving expenses and early distribution of retirement plan monies back before we even had computers. Now we have the Turbo Tax program and can follow it as it asks questions, as well as reading the IRS publications. I can do my own schedule C and SE, section 179 even without Turbo Tax. So I don't have a tax professional, an accountant, or anybody like that. An acquaintance in my same line of work told me he was taking a home office deduction at the advice of his tax person/accountant and I knew that having someone else directing my finances was not for me. I can clearly read that since the essential part of my business (doing the actual counselling sessions) was not done at home, a home office exemption was not allowed. Why pay someone to mess up my taxes with lies when I can make a few honest mistakes myself without paying someone to help! The answer my colleague gave to my remark that the home office exemption could not apply to us was that he believed what he was told by his advisor. If I am going to have to understand the taxes well enough to sign that they are correct, I may as well do them myself with a $60 program, rather than pay to have someone else do it.

I really hope I don't sound argumentative. I am really curious, do other people really pay to have these professionals at their beck and call? How can you know that they are correct in their advice?

We have located an attorney. My B-in-L used him in the past. DH talked to him today and he says he will walk us through the real estate deal and discuss the tax implications with us for a fee of $650. It is certainly higher than I would expect for a regular house sale, but do you think it is out of line for a complicated lease to own deal?

Our counter was presented to the nurse today. She will reply tomorrow.

Nancy:

We do have a specific lawyer we see as needed, but we don't have him on retainer. Right now DH and I are redoing our wills and are in the process of changing child support for DH's sons, so we have been seeing the lawyer. This same lawyer handled DH's divorce, and DH was very pleased with how things came out on that, so we are now using him again for our wills/child support issues.

We don't have an accountant/tax professional and have always done our own taxes using Turbo Tax or Tax Slayer online. However, we likely will see one this year as we have sold two houses and bought another all this year. Plus, this is our first year of filing jointly (we just got married) so we want to make sure we do everything right.

I don't think your attorney fee of $650 is terribly out of line. We are closing on a house in two weeks that was bought through a "regular house sale" and I think the fee for the attorney is about $400. Remember that you get what you pay for.

Nancy,

DH is an attorney. But, any attorney who represents himself/herself has a fool for a client!

However, being a member of the Bar & serving on several Bar committees as a Board member, DH does know many attorneys specializing in various stuff that we use for wills & other estate planning. For real estate, since that's DH's specialty, we've never used outside counsel & there's nobody I'd trust more than DH.

We used to have an accountant on retainer. We've simplified our lives tremendously over the past five years & no longer need CPA services as frequently plus we've moved to a new state. Now, we also use Turbo Tax & if we have a question DH just asks the bank's CFO. We are lucky that we've got these professionals handy.

I'm similar to you in that I wouldn't trust advice given from someone I'm unfamilar with. I think using counsel that your DH knows & is pleased with is a good idea. Hopefully, he knows enough to be honest if he doesn't have an answer & seek out clarification rather than just blurt out something to you when he's unsure. Attorneys, more than many professionals, suffer from "Answer Syndrome". :)

The scenario you've described is certainly more complicated than a straight sale, however, it's really not all that uncommon. Any good attorney should be able to advise you of pros/cons/pitfalls, etc. with competence. It's basic 'contract law'.

I couldn't get counsel to write-up my BILL for $650! Although I'm aware that in Michigan even professional fees are less expensive than either NY or CT where we live/work, it still doesn't sound out-of-line. It's going to take some of his time & several hours of his paralegal's time especially if you request him to prepare documents.

Good luck with the counter...

Tricia

We use an accountant. She is not "on retainer," but I occasionally email her with questions throughout the year about our taxes.

I was always able to do my own taxes, but then I got married, we became landlords, my mother died and I was executor, and so things just got a lot more complicated. The accountant we use is very conservative and is also an Enrolled Agent (means she is qualfied to represent us before the IRS if there is a problem -- we haven't had to avail ourselves of this thus far, knock on wood). I feel she will not lead us into any illegal or unethical problems. It has been well worth it to have her services available.

The whole tax business if you rent out property can get extremely complicated because you really must take depreciation. What you can and can't deduct can also be tricky. I would be interested to know if TurboTax makes it any easier. I was totally unable to figure out what to do from the IRS publications.

And then there is the alternative minimum tax issue ...

But anyway, good luck on your offer. It sounds like it might solve some of your problems.

Nancy:

I used to have a rental home and I did our taxes. Don't worry - you can handle it.

Who will pay for maintenance on the home while she lives there? This is a major decision.

Examples - plumbing backups, roof leaks, gutter falls off or leaks, appliance repair or replacement, landscape mulch, weeding, water heater broke, garage door no longer opens, central ac stops working, mouse chews a hole in the corner of the garage, ceiling fan no longer works, etc.

Good point sweet tea. When we buy a house inevitably there will be some little things wrong that were missed at inspection or that arise soon after closing, a fan doesn't work, or the A/C needs recharging the next summer.

In this scenario as a landlord, all of these things can be discovered within the 2 years and you will be on the hook to fix them. If she is very picky and you very accomodating, you may end up fixing a lot of things that would be her responsibility if the house was purchased and closed immediately.

I have always wondered about that. Folks say that all the time - talk to your accountant, talk to your tax adviser, talk to your lawyer. I don't know anybody who "has" one of any of these professionals! People in my world will seek out one of these professionals when needed. We end up with strangers who we were referred to by word of mouth or by the yellow pages. We don't know how reliable the person is and have to guess whether to take the advice, or not.

Yes, we have an accountant "on retainer", my husband's business has a load of attorneys "on retainer" but when we need a personal attorney we just use the people we've always used depending on the need. The accountant is absolutely necessary as we pay tax in several states and the Feds statement is reams long. Before my current husband and I married, we both did our own taxes. It was much more straightforward when we each worked for some else and the only concern was for investment income.

Yeah, we will "get stuck" for all those nickel and dime expenses. But since we have replaced or repaired just about everything but the roof - I figure that is the next thing to go and it WILL in the next two years.

We are still waiting to hear about her reaction to our counter.

Thanks everyone for the answers to my impertinent questions. It is good to hear that the $650 is not too high. I figured it was in the right range.

Nancy,

Could you put into the contract if she bails out 2 years from now at today's price, that you keep the $3700 damage deposit plus accrued interest? At least that will give you *some* money in your pocket should it not work out.

How about an inspection clause? After the two years is up and she is ready to purchase - is she going to demand an inspection and then request that you put in a new roof and fix many other things? Just make sure you don't get a surprise after the 2 years is up.

About the maintenance during the 2 years period. Don't just assume that the seller automatically has to cover this. I think that it might be customary for the buyer to cover mainenance during the "rent to own" period. I could be wrong but had heard of some folks that were renting to own, and the maintenance was on their dime. But I suppose this is negotiable. (maybe I am confusing a "leave option" with "rent to own"?)

As a seller, you want clauses that will protect you. So try to get at least some, if not all, of the maintenance reponsibilities to be put onto the buyer.

Even landlords for standard rentals like to remove landlord responsibility for appliance maintenance and replacement and plumbing backups that are caused by the tenant.

**Also - in the contract make sure that if she paints or cuts down trees or makes alterations, that she get your approval in writing. I had a neigbor (seller) that was in your situation. 7 months into the rent-to-own, the person cut down about 5 huge oak trees in the front of the home. Then a couple months later the renter decided to move out. The oak trees were of huge value and the house seller actually picked that lot for building the home mainly because of the oak trees.

Check this link. It says with a rent-to-own, that the tenant is responsible for maintenance and repair. This link also talks about the details involved for seller in a rent-to-own.

http://www.dolfanddiane.com/PDFs/Rent_to_Own.pdf

Great! Thanks for the link, I will spend some time there tomorrow. I am checking out the depreciation/recapture stuff tonight. I worked until 8 pm, so I have a short night. DH has gigs tonight and tomorrow and again on Saturday night (plus his day job 5 days a week), so he is stressed out and not handling things well today.

Our counter was countered. She is now at $139K with $1200 rent and $200 going toward the purchase.

I learned today that my workplace is losing one of the nursing homes we service. Maybe a fifth to a quarter of our clients live there. For me, I will get a two month reprieve. A coworker is going out on medical leave in two weeks and I will be filling in for her for the next two months. Maybe she will be gone four (I can only hope...) months. So when she comes back, I may lose half my job. Then October 1, I may lose the other half.

So when I called DH to tell him of the counter to our counter, he said he didn't think we would work it out. I said, we have to, I may be losing hours at work in two months, may lose my whole job a few months later, and there does not seem to be any other buyer in sight! He did not take it well.

Yes, I think that we will have to do the inspection before the lease period starts. Don't you think? What do you think about purchasing a home warrenty NOW for the buyer, and keep it up the two years she is leasing? I am fairly sure you can buy these policies at any time.

I like the idea of having her take care of at least petty plumbing and appliance problems. We are supplying a 13 year-old fridge in fine shape, brand new microwave and dishwasher and a barely-used gas stove 3 years old. The water heater is maybe five years old. Furnace and air are 12 years old.

Here is a link that might be useful: my photos

If she's going to buy the home, you should write into the contract that she is responsible for all maintenance during the rent-to-own period. Why should it cost you extra money for repairs when you're doing her a favour due to her situation?

Hi Nancy,
No useful info, just a (((Nancy))) to help you get thru this.
Kathy G in MI

Thanks for the hugs, Kathy, and the advice, sparksals.

We countered with $144K, $1200 per month with $200 going toward the sale of the house. Someone is viewing it tomorrow. Showings have slowed down in recent weeks (but three of the visits last month were from one couple).

Be gentle, folks. I don't want to hear about the all caps and the bad abreviations, I don't think anyone here much cares, this guy is the biggest seller in our area. I am too tired to take criticism of the ad. It is just so you can see the house.

Here is a link that might be useful: C 21 listing

Nancy, after all this, wouldn't it be head smacking if the thrice visitors put in an offer while you're negotiating this one?

Crossing my fingers and toes for you!

Nancy and others, We have both an attorney and accountant. Neither is on retainer. Both can be called at any time with questions. Both DH and I work full time, and with multiple family deaths in recent years, inheritances of real estate and other stuff including land contracts, our moves, home renovations, and assorted tax issues, we knew that we would not be current with all tax regulations and laws and the fairly rapid changes that happen to them. We choose to pay professionals to get the best and most current advice available. We'd rather spend our time focusing on our job related areas of expertise, our families and our hobbies. Both of the folks we work with came from recommendations and we interviewed both before signing on with either. It has been money well spent as we already know we've saved on taxes and will avoid saddling our heirs with hassles when we both move on from this world.

I hope your structure the best deal you can...and good luck through the job situation.

sparksals, last we heard, the three-timers were buying a different house. Still waiting to hear about our latest counter.

Bummer. Hopefully this one works out!

Yesterday the realtor called. The nurse is sticking to $139K, $1200 rent with $200 going toward the sale. Realtor proposed that we go down $1500, nurse go up $1500, and he'll throw in $2000 from his commission. I said yes. We haven't heard back on her answer. Realtor is also trying to get feedback on the Saturday showing of our house to a different party. He says that with the market so slow, realtors are not returning his calls, it is like everyone in the business is moving in a bowl of molasses, I guess!

Once I understood it, I always loved that saying, "As slow as molasses in January."

An update, with good progress and some real bumps in the road...

We didn't hear and didn't hear and didn't hear back about the last offer to each move $1500 in the other's direction with the realtor kicking in $2000. Actually, we did hear. First it was she wanted time to have family take another look at the possibilities for changing my newly remodeled kitchen. Okay. Then she wanted the ex husband to scope out the porch, which we had built (poured concrete top on concrete block foundation), then she was working with her 401K to be sure how much she could take out. Then we didn't hear for two weeks.

Since we were living in our own little medical hell at the time, it was okay with us to not hear from her. Dad suddenly went blind over the course of the day on Friday, June 22. I got him to go to the ER, finally, and a day later we had a diagnosis - Temporal Arteritis. They put my 91 year-old father-in-law on massive doses of solumedrol (steroids) to try to save his sight. He was disoriented by the meds and the hospitalization and we provided 24 hour companionship/care to him for several days, then started doing 6am-10pm shifts. With five people with five full-time jobs, we did not have time to worry about the sale of our house. Dad came home to us last Tuesday night, blind. He has a lot to adapt to, and is still taking enough prednisone (steroids) to floor a horse, so is still sometimes confused (in a really philosophical/existential way!). We are still exhausted and now have a steady stream of aides, nurses, PT and OT, plus the all-day caregiver while we are at work.

We got a call late on Friday from our realtor. He said that the buyer was sticking to the $139,000 figure, but he would still lower his commission by $2000 to make the deal. We took it. So we are now in verbal agreement. I refused to sign anything until we get the lease agreement and sales contract okayed by our attorney. The realtor was going to have us sign and hand write "contingent on approval of seller's attorney" - but I refused. DH's bro took the papers to the attorney's office today, we hope to meet with him later this week.

Unfortunately, we are also meeting with another attorney on Thursday to discuss the possibility of suing because two physicians had all the evidence they needed to prevent Dad's blindness before it started. He went to his internist complaining of early symptoms, the doc did the right test, but did not seem to notice that the results were five and a half times the upper limit for the "normal" range! He gave Dad three copies of the results, one to take to the urologist (the internist did notice that the PSA test was slightly high, and sent him to see the specialist), one to take to the opthamologist (Dad's jaw/head pain was now behind his eyes), and one to keep.

When the neuro-opthalmologist at the hospital told us the diagnosis Saturday night, I researched it online, then went into Dad's room because he had said the labs were there. I was shaking with fury/disbelief/anger to see that the SED rate HAD been tested. But it was the only lab value that was not on the first page of the lab results. The doc either did not turn the page, or was not given the second page to look at. The symptoms and the SED rate told the story and any internist should have found the correct diagnosis. Of course, the opthamologist also missed the diagnosis. He sent Dad home from a visit where the primary complaint was pain in the head behind the eyes with only drops for dry eyes! He did not look at the labs, either! Then on Friday morning when Dad woke with blurry vision, I encouraged him to call and let the eye doc know so we could take him in if he needed to be seen. The doc called back and said he was using too much of the eye drops. Dad was using them as prescribed, and told him so, but the doc just disregarded this. We were busy with a project in the house all day, Dad took the doc's word for the eye problem and it wasn't until we ate dinner and Dad tried to watch the ball game that we figured out that he could barely see anything. I got him to the ER as fast as I could convince him to go, but it was too late. If he'd been started on the steroids two weeks earlier, when the internist called the house to tell him to make an appointment with an urologist, Dad would not be blind at all. So an attorney is coming Thursday to discuss the case. Dad's caregivers will take all of his Social Security and his retirement income. Family will provide his care in the evening, nights and weekends because he cannot afford to hire care 24/7. A highly private and independent man who did his own shopping and cooking, who did not even tell you when he was seeing the doc, let alone what the doc prescribed - is now totally dependent on others. His dignity is at risk because the meds make him incontinent. He cannot see his baseball games (Go, Tigers!), read his daily newspaper, or his Newsweek.

Obviously, $1500 doesn't mean much around here anymore, and we will be happy to have a renter for the next two years with the closing date of August 1, 2009 and the possibility of purchase earlier, if possible.

Life has a way of putting things in perspective.

Nancy in mich,

I have been following your story for a long time, as we were selling at the same time last year.

Just wanted to say that I am so sorry your family has had to endure such a tremendous blow to your father's health, and I hope that things improve for him.

I wish you much strength and am glad you found a renter/buyer for the interim.

Nancy, I'm really sorry to hear of this happening to your father. You're right, it puts things in perspective, but that doesn't make it easier to accept. I hope the situation improves.
Minet

Nancy, I'm sorry about your dad and will keep you guys in my thoughts.

Good luck with the attorney. Hopefully you will find one that will take the case.

nancy_in_mich I am so sorry to hear about your Dad. I hope there are corrective measures. I've been blind before, and was fortunate enough that technology and research had come far enough to repair the damage and allow me to see again. I will pray the same is available to your Dad.

Thanks so much xamsx,roselvr,minet, and telag, plus all the others who send thoughts our way. Dad is somewhat discouraged tonight, but he'll be okay in the long run. The disease he has either destroys the optical nerves because of the arteries swelling, or cuts off the blood supply to the optic nerves and they die. (I have heard both versions.) Either way, the nerve is damaged and cannot be repaired with today's medical technology. Plus, at 91 Dad probably does not have time for a lot of new technologies to come on line.

We have an appointment on Saturday afternoon to see the attorney about our real estate deal.