I just finished remodeling a 4 unit in San Francisco on 23 and Clement. Here is want I learn.

Allways check references of your contractors and make sure they are licensed(use the internet - under State of Californial - Buiding Inspection Dept - Contractor licensing. Make sure they get permits before they start the work and don't pay them more then 5% down (if any) before they start work. If they don't get the permits drawn before starting work; you are in big trouble. San Francisco is a political city and their is a lot of under the table $$$ in the permit and inspection. Plumbing and electrical are full of con artist waiting to ripe you off! Many have no licenses or insurance or they are expired.

I would try to concentrate on the bigger firms for the work unless you want to be the general contractor and then sub it out! Work in the professional trades varies in quality. I would try to get recommendations from their latest jobs over a month time; no earlier. Some references are staged - usually friends of the contractors or relatives. It is important to find honest and reliable contractors for your project and you have to interview them and follow up and do your due diligence. You can always tell them what you want to pay. The can counter offer you or they can walk. It always pays to negotiate. Many expect it since they work many times for general contractors who tell them what they are willing to pay them.

A good professinal will work faster, produces better workmanship and make few errors. That person may charge more but will be the best $$$$ spent. Many will charge all most nothing but their work is substandard and may not show up on a daily basis.

Good luck in your remodeling.

Not sure what Harry's reply had to do with the original post.

Tsranga, if you've gotten several bids and they were all way over budget then it's safe to say your expectations were unrealistic. A remodeling cartel seems very unlikely, particularly with the economy suffering. I live far from San Francisco and know nothing about typical costs there, but the labor rates you quoted don't surprise me a bit. I also don't see how you could possibly expect to make an accurate guess at the price of a project like this by using floor area. What's the floor area taken up by new electrical service, or the furnace, or the walls you remove? Per-square-foot cost estimates are meaningless for this stuff.

Given the extensive scope of the project, including many many structural issues, even in a low budget market, I'd expect the remodel to be over 250K. In SF, 400+ might be more realistic given the permits and inspections and earthquate proofing and fire proofing that have to be done.

Thank you for all the input.

I agree that floor area is not the most accurate way of estimating the price of the project. But it does give me a range for similar work. A friend of mine had added 1600 sqft over 2 floors including extensive cabinetry and a bathroom, new insulation & electrical, lot of structural work, and his project cost him $330k ($200 sq.ft - 4 years ago). Another project was a very similar addition to mine which cost $300k (just completed).

I have three bids so far from contractors who I have been working with from Nov08. I have visited all their projects and also similar projects that my friends have had done.

Two of the contractors specialize only in remodeling, while one of them does new high-end homes ($2 million+). The new home builder came much lower than the remodelers and included additional work (pool demo, alarm, whole house re-insulation & sheetrocking, finishing patio with tiles).

The costs for most of the trades were similar, but the biggest difference was in the demolition, electrical,painting & windows - around 50k (more if I included the pool demo). Since I had a line item breakdown by trade, I made sure that the lower bid did not miss anything - in fact, it included additional work like alarm system, finishing patios with tile, etc.

Here is how I went with my calculations:

Additional sq.ft - 600 sq.ft @ 300/ sq.ft = $180k
Bathrooms - $60k ( 3 1/2 bathrooms)
Kitchen - $40k
Wall removal, heating, water etc. - $20k
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Total - $300k
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So the sq.ft cost actually comes out to $300 /sq.ft (assuming 600 sq.ft addition + 400 sqft existng including kitchen, bathroom, walls).

"A friend of mine had added 1600 sqft over 2 floors including extensive cabinetry and a bathroom, new insulation & electrical, lot of structural work, and his project cost him $330k ($200 sq.ft - 4 years ago)."

I would try to get a bid from remodeler that did the above project. Since all costs have gone down in this evironment - raw material especially; you should be about to try to get it to close to the 4 years figure of say $250 a sq. ft.

I would try additional contractors since I think you just got around 4 quotes; maybe 2 more would be call for; to get an even feel. Also, the longer you wait; the better off you will be in getting lower prices since the economy is reported to be in recession for 18 more months.

Have you try to counter offer the contractor you want to go with? Maybe $30K less and give some example like you have done here to back your offer. The worse he can do is counter your counter.

"I would try to get a bid from remodeler that did the above project. Since all costs have gone down in this evironment - raw material especially; you should be about to try to get it to close to the 4 years figure of say $250 a sq. ft."

I would have, but I did not like the quality of work :(. I have another contractor bid coming in, and as you said, it makes sense to wait, but not too long since I am paying 2 mortgages (haven't yet sold my current home).

I did ask the contractor with the bid that came in close to my budget to reduce 10-15% across the board, and he is working on it.

"I am paying 2 mortgages (haven't yet sold my current home). "

I did not know your above circumstances. In that case; I would do small task only if possible until you sell your current home and then you can expand the remodeling with the new fundings available.

Your main concern should be to sell your current home and get rid of that mortgage.

You should not be so ambitious to take on a fully remodeling project too; you may set yourself up to burn out financially. Remodeling always is more then you have budgeted - from 20%-50% on the average and some cases 100% more. It cost more to demo and redo then to just built from scratch. Plus, you add more expensive fixtures, moldings, appliances, titles, etc....

I'm embarking on a full home remodel in San Francisco that sounds similar to tsranga's (without the pool infill). Lots of structural work (LVL's, shearwalls), we are filling in a light well to add a staircase between floors. I am waiting for bids to come in but I would love any recommendations on contractors that met or exceeded expectations. Tsranga, if you're still on this site, please share the outcome of the remodel in Jan!

Prices you received pretty high,I recently hired company Designati NY Construction to do my house renovation their prices are pretty reasonable.I found them on website www.designatiny.com