crl:

How rare that someone posts durability/practicality over esthetics here. It is refreshing.

Like your cabinet's ability to be easily repainted, Corian and other solid surface countertops are easily the most durable and sanitary. They can be inconspicuously repaired and since the Marble Institute of America recommends the use of trivets, even for soapstone, they are functionally equivalent. When I was finished with a 20-year-old Glacier White kitchen yesterday, it looked like the day it was installed.

Once you chip cast iron, you'll stare at that chip until the day you replace the sink. Not so with stainless steel or solid surface.

Thanks! I guess I don't really understand the heat resistance of soapstone then. It is used to make fireplaces, no? But it's not heat resistant enough to take hot dishes? I have to admit I used to put dishes straight from the oven onto my butcher block counter in a previous home and never scorched it. I'd think soapstone would be more heat resistant than wood. Corian will definitely scorch under those circumstances, right? And from what I read here the engineered quartz counters can also get burn marks? And both materials can stain?

How likely are cast iron sinks to chip? I think mine is orginial to the kitchen (that cabinet run definitely is, but I can't say for sure whether the counter and sink are original or long-ago replacements). If it is original it is nearly ninety years old and has just one chip. Stainless doesn't chip and a brushed finish can help scratches blend in. . . .

Any more thoughts on durability? Thanks!

crl:

You can probably fry an egg on the hood of your car in the summer without damage, but it's not a procedure recommended in the owner's manual. It's the same thing with hot stuff on countertops.

The heat resistance of stone is sales puffery by the stoners themselves. You sit in a new car in the showroom and the salesman says "You look good in that." Same thing.

It's impossible to predict the likely hood of an enameled sink chipping. One slippery cast iron skillet and you're done.

Well I do look good in any car. :). But soapstone is used in situations with actual flame contact so how is it puffery that it is heat resistant?

And even if soapstone isn't truly heat proof, wouldn't stainless steel or tile be the next things to consider rather than corian or engineered quartz, which are definitely susceptible to heat damage?

Here is a link that might be useful: Blog link on soapstone stoves and inserts

My design has been heavily based in the durability concept. I have chosen:

factory painted cabinets with great hardware

full overlay to hide any little dings to the edge of the ---cabinets (not likely to happen....but possible)

quartz countertops

Silgranit sink

(most likely) ceramic backsplash

Simple Delta faucets - no hands free something to break, chrome finish because I have that now and it has been very durable

Pendant lights with "normal" bulbs (I had pendant lights with halogen bulbs at my office and I had to replace them due to multiple repair issues)

Simple microwave tucked into a hidden shelf

I am reusing the fridge that came with the house, but when we replace it I will get one without the water dispenser b/c that is the most frequently serviced item.

My somewhat impractical choice is the flooring. I am going with hardwood, although tile or sheet vinyl would be more durable.

From my research it seems like the sink issue is all about how it is installed. If you go with an undermount and use something like clips or another easier change it out method for down the road then go with any sink you like. I love stainless because well I like metal and you can buff out scratches and make it shiny.

I am also strongly considering soapstone for my next kitchen. I love how it looks, feels, and DIYness. Soapstone is on some older fireplaces and higher end wood stoves because it absorbs and then releases heat. So heat friendly? I don't want to say heat resistant because what is? I've broken myself of the habit of putting hot stuff right on the counter in preparation of what ever my next counter is, but what if something slips out of my hand? I don't want to replace my counter because of one slip. That's ridiculous. I would get a small piece of soapstone and test it out if you're concerned.

I like stained cabinets, but really anything will need to be refinished eventually so I don't think you can get away from that.

I like your idea about the cabinets next to the fridge so the space can expand because refrigerators are so big now! Hopefully the size will stabilize. That is something I have some thought about because like the size of washers and dryers and a recent discussion of dedicating a space to a microwave which may soon be obsolete is frustrating. So I think as long as you plan for certain cabinets to go above and next to the fridge that great.

Hopefully your new kitchen will last another 90 years.

crl - I think that what Treb is trying to say is really, how likely are you to purposely try to abuse the surfaces that you put in. And, if you are reasonably careful (not taking extreme precautions, mind you, but NORMAL care), many surfaces can be perfectly suitable for you and your desire for longevity.

With soapstone, yes, it is used as a durable surface. Saying that, there can be fine cracks etc. that you may not be aware of that if you put a sufficiently hot item on it, it could cause expansion/contraction issues. It's not bulletproof...so just realize that there are other options out there that can hold up and be quite durable as long as you understand and can live within their limitations.

We plan on our remodel kitchen being our "forever kitchen"...saying that, we are relatively easy on our surfaces, so we picked moderately durable surfaces. We're a couple in our mid-40's without kids. We lived in our builder-grade new home for several years and it still looked almost brand new when we moved out. The surfaces in that house were certainly NOT longevity designed. So, it depends on you how durable any surface is.

Hmm, so the soapstone issue is thermal shock cracking the slab-- same issue as granite? I actually do have some "test" soapstone. We went with a soapstone remnant for the counter top in our recent bathroom remodel. So far I like it a lot, but of course, master bath use isn't the same as kitchen use. And it hasn't been installed even a full year yet. (I have thawed a few things on it though--that is the neatest thing ever, even though it is very weird to thaw meat on my bathroom counter).

As far as how we treat things, well, I don't think we abuse stuff, but we also are not the most careful people around. Like I said above I put hot pans directly on my butcher block in a previous home (though not on the laminate counters we have had). We also have two kids--a ten year old and a three year old. The ten year old is pretty careful with stuff, but the three year old is sometimes known as destructo-girl. She's getting better but I don't know that she will ever be as careful with stuff as her big brother. Just different personalities.

The sink installation issue makes sense to me. How about an undermount farmhouse sink? Is that a reasonable replacement job or a nightmare? I assume I should try to pick a very common size under the premise that it will be more likely to continue to be made?

Thank you all!

crl, I was very careless with my soapstone at my last house. We would grill veggies on the patio in a grill basket and put the hot-off-the-grill basket directly on the counter to cool. The world did not end, but it is not recommended :) OTOH, I would never have thought to take a cast iron skillet out of the oven and plop it on the soapstone. That would have been a no-no. That being said, if you're a "roll with it", "Jeans and T" kind of person that can handle some aesthetic wear to your countertop (a surface that can be doused in battery acid and won't flinch) I would highly recommend soapstone as a kitchen counter surface. It is quite awesome (and you already know about the coolness of it thawing meat unbelievably quickly). We are installing it again in our new house because my DH loved it so much at our last house.

Trebuchet Once you chip cast iron, you'll stare at that chip until the day you replace the sink. Not so with stainless steel or solid surface.

As someone who has had two cast irons and a multitude of stainless sinks (I have no personal usage knowledge of solid surface), I have to say that this is undeniably true.

crl- i was just having a conversation with my mom re cast irons sinks. here's a summary of her experiences. first cast iron was original(we think) to the 1920s house that was in foreclosure and bought for a song. the relavence is that the cast iron was in great shape, no chips, in a house that clearly wasn't babied. they moved in 86 and put a kohler cast iron sink in their 1970 cape. that kohler sink chipped and scratch quite a bit. i was contemplating cast iron and now am not. i am a clutz and our sink takes a beating. kohler says they guarantee no chips, scratches though so not sure what to think.
also i noticed that you want a faucet that can be changed out easily. i too would like to eliminate any single point of failure where possible. i have decided to go top mount silgranite sink after reading horror stories of under mounts leaking or cracking and counters needing to be removed for repair. i know there are a lot of great fabricators that do a sturdy install and there are also a lot of not great fabricators! i am not chancing it since i don't have a crystal ball:) i think about this, a heavy sink under mounted, add in lots of dishes and water, and that is a lot of weight pulling on your counter and it's harness system. me, i am thinking top mount is the way to go. if i ever get sick of it, easy to swap out!

Crl- I have never had a farmhouse or an undermount sink, but this is just from my research so if anyone else has knowledge jump in.

There are self trimming farmhouse sinks which only require a rough cut in the cabinet and are suppose to cover slight imperfections from the cut so I guess that is one way to go down the road. If theyre not around you could always just add some moulding around the sink to fill any gaps if you go with something a different shape or size.

I do not know much about installing farmhouse sinks though. I would guess a top mount or flush mount would be much easier to replace down the road because you just lift them up. A farmhouse sink is supposed to sit on a shelf and I would think an undermount would be wedged between shelf and counter. I would also go to the manufacture website of the sinks you're interested in and read their installation instructions. That should give you an idea of how difficult it would be to replace in the future.

Re: soapstone. We have had it in our lakehouse kitchen for 7 yrs. - on both island and countertop. We've not babied it at all & it's as beautiful as the day it was installed. Like hsw_ sc, hot pans from the grill have been put on it as well as hot casserole dishes and cookie sheets. Generally, I use cooling racks for baked items, but occasionally when the house is full and we have a couple cooks working the kitchen, someone forgets. I'm not recommending abuse, just saying that soapstone's durability is a big reason I paid a premium to have it there.

All I can say is that I have a Kohler cast iron sink that's over 22 years old now. I wash heavy pots and pans in my sink. No chips, no scratches. I don't use a protective mat or whatever. Every now and then, I fill it with some bleach diluted with water, and it's bright white again.
I hated the water spots in my SS sink.

As a family we have been very hard on surfaces.

One approach is to pick surfaces that are "distressed" to begin with. Buy a vintage cast iron sink that already has chips that you love...and know that you can live with the chips and you won't have PTSD when the next chip happens. Get recycled wood flooring and get it finished but know that they never were "perfect" in your home.

Another approach is to get materials that get a beautiful patina as they age. I would include marble, stainless, zinc, limestone, soapstone, counters, site-finished wood floors, etc. in that category.

For finishes that *stay* perfect - I have seen many polished granite counters that look perfect after many years of use...I've chosen that for my kitchen. My ceramic floor tiles were in great condition after 12 years.

Cabinet doors with complicated moldings can get damaged because they are hard to clean - using tools to get into crevices, etc. can damage the finish. That's why I'm doing slab fronts this time.

Pulls should be large enough to not require "scrabbling" with fingers/nails to use - that causes wear on cabinet fronts.

Panels used to hide cabinet boxes should be made of the identical material as the fronts, or they will age differently - that happened in my former kitchen and it really looked awful.

Cabinet hardware is pretty important. I adore the Blum hardware that comes with my new IKEA cabinets.

I prefer heat resistant counters so I wouldn't do quartz or corian, but Trebuchet makes a good point that at least corian can be refinished. I have seen corian age nicely in our local public library - the checkout counters.

A different issue is looks.

Painted vs wood cabinets go in and out trend-wise. There have been times when painted cabinets have looked dated. Right now they look fresh and as you say they can easily be refreshed. Factory painted or finished cabinet doors are NOT simple to re-paint - do-able but a big job. My sister paid $1000 to have her wood cabinets painted white by a professional in a smallish kitchen. DIY is a major job to do properly, and a misery with complicated door styles. Frameless cabinets are MUCH easier to freshen - you only have to refinish or replace the fronts rather than dealing with the boxes as well.

Tiles do seem to look dated after a decade - I don't think it's realistic to do "timeless" in tile. Stone floors may stand the test of time if not "on trend" when installed. I believe that lower quality engineered wood and laminates will look dated pretty quickly.

I'm having a really hard time with the painted cabinet finish being refresh-able. Paint will oxidize over time, especially if exposed to UV light or grease/oil, and this alters the original color slightly, making exact color matching a nightmare. Also, factory paint finishes are very smooth. Both these factors preclude any sort of decent looking touch-up, so we're talking a complete and total paint job when these painted cabinets start to get discolored or chipped or show edge wear. In contrast, there are easy ways to touch up a stained wood finish and especially touch up a SPOT or REGION on a stained wood finish that will be virtually indistinguishable from the other surface after touch-up. So of the two, I'd say hands down a stained wood finish is more durable over time.

Well, I'm not thinking touch ups on a painted finish, I'm thinking repaint the whole lot. And matching stains is very tricky IME. Plus with any sort of poly coat on top, you can't really re-stain, can you? So I think you'd be looking at a similar process to refinish stained cabinets. Unless the original finish was a less durable, more living finish type surface. But maybe I'm not fully understanding how wood finish cabinets are typically finished. One advantage is that scratches and the like seem likely to be less obvious with a wood finish vs a painted finish.

Either seems preferable to thermofoil or the like, at least it seems that way to me.

Thank you all!

They make soapstone cookware to used in the oven, stovetop and grill. I put hot pans on my soapstone counters and have for 5 years. In my last house I also put hot pans on my granite. I do believe if there is a fissure or crack and you put a hot pan on it might be a problem. I had a porcelain sink for 20+ years in my last house. It still looked good but the last year or so I know it needed more freq cleaning with Bon Ami. I assume the finish was wearing. I also always kept a sink grid or mat in place. I have soapstone sink now with no protection 5+ years and it is fine. But I do feel the seams could hide germs so every time I boil tea water I make extra and pour it around the edges. Good luck with your kitchen.

crl - re stained cabs, not sure if it was because our cabs had a terrible finish but when the front frame of my builder grade sink cab looked damaged from water, i sanded it down and restained it. the oak was actually quite easy to match and it def looked better.
i have also restained a hutch to match a new table. layering 2 stains is how i matched them so imo staining wood is simple. painting our oak bath cab, not so much! 3 coats of primer, 2 of paint and its ok but not perfect:)

Come on...you don't really want durable. That would be the SS countertops and sinks I tore out of our first house. It also had steel cabinetry. A St. Charles kitchen was a big whoop when the house was new in the 1950's. Now THAT was *durable*. I guess that even then some homemakers were confusing home kitchens with restaurant kitchens. The 'look' doesn't make you a better cook.

IMO it's hard to find a kitchen or a house that is going to be 'just right' for both a growing family and empty-nesters. You can do what you've planned, leaving convertible spaces. You can avoid specialty stuff that requires odd size cutouts in cabinetry or countertops. (Let somebody else do the farmhouse sink and/or soapstone. Stay basic.)

You WILL have to replace things. Who knows how a family will be living and eating in the future? I bet your house has (or had) a pantry -- because many people were isolated from stores. It probably had a pump handle or even a dry sink, and a cook stove. Many kitchens had no storage and no eating space either. As that changed, so will things change in the future. Do the best for your 'now'.

Chisue, yes I do really want durable. Tearing out the existing kitchen is bad enough. The last thing I want to do is build something that is destined for the landfill in ten years a and designed to cost me the money and hassle of another remodel because I bought junk that looks good for now. If you want disposable, by all means, go for it.