We had an island like that in our last house. Our sink area was a little wider as we had a trash pullout next to the sink between the sink and dishwasher. Problem with that was the trash could not be accessed when the dishwasher was open. You will probably have to stand at an angle at the sink when your DW is open. Also, you will not be able to easily access the cabinets under the sink with the DS open. I think a straight island would be more functional overall, but I understand the look you're going for.

I would extend the closet adjacent to the fridge much closer to the edge of the carcass, allowing enough for doorswing, but covering the side of the fridge. You could also make the cabinets to the right of the fridge a bit deeper to further "bury" the depth of the fridge, or recess it slightly into that storage closet for the same result.

I would try an island closer to the perimeter counter and more linear as an alternative to consider. Its far from the perimeter...8 feet? I would pull it to 5 feet away and try a straight one. You may want to shift the fridge over in that case, too.

You put your finger on the collision point. Move the dishwasher to the end of the island?

I'm concerned about the distances between the three ends of the work triangle--looks to be about 7 feet each leg of the commute, yes? If I remember the expert recommendations, they say if there is a long commute it should be to the refrig but not between water and range. I've got 6.5 feet between sides of my U and I wouldn't want any longer but maybe you're about the same here. Try walking through a full meal prep in a mock-up kitchen using packing boxes and card tables.

If you flipped the refrig and the door to storage (is this a larder? a pantry?) at least you'd tighten the commute but you'd also bring the family into collision with the cooking area when they go for a beverage. How about moving the refrig to the other side of the adjacent counter? This would still be sandwich and beverage station but would bring refrig closer into the work area. That storage door really does seem to grab some prime real estate.

Thank you for the responses.

To start with, here is a picture showing the current walking distances:

my2sons -> DW is definitely something I've struggled with. The plan atm is to have the dinnerware in the cabinets to the left of the range. In our current house the DW is directly below the cabinet where the dishes go and I find it a bit of a pain to unload the DW as you are always reaching over the open door. Thought about putting the DW in the end of the island but wasn't sure if that would be better or not...would definitely block that path when the DW is open. Would also create a flat wall on the inside of the island, which I suppose you could put panels on to match the cabinets.
The straight island would definitely make this easier.

palimpsest -> I see what you mean about the closet. We were going to have the cabinet maker install a partition to hide the side of the fridge, but I think making the closet larger may be a better idea...can never have too much storage room!
Recessing the fridge is a good idea as well, except for the fact that we want enough room to put our small freezer directly behind that wall. Based on some of these suggestions though, perhaps I'll be moving some things around anyway.

florantha -> What do you think of the distances on the updated drawing above?
I can see possibly moving the fridge, although I believe our thought was to have it closer to the island as that is likely where we would set groceries to put into the fridge, and also put food from the fridge for prep.
The storage area is a pantry (not sure what a larder is :)) where all of the non-refridgerated food items will be stored, along with some small appliances, and a small freezer. Pretty excited to have the freezer upstairs as we always seem to be running downstairs for something in our current house.

I am not opposed to going with a more linear island...we just thought it might be nice to have something facing directly out towards the living room (and TV) and thought it would be a bit different/unique. If anyone has any suggestions or examples of islands that are more functional but still aren't totally linear I'd be interested.

I'll try moving some stuff around and see what I can come up with.

If you don't mind some comments on the rest of the floorplan:

Is this the only living area in the house? It seems a little tight, if so. With a lamp and table between the two sofas, passage is restricted even with no one seated at the island. You may gain by not indenting the window wall in the LR area.

Is it possible that someone would be watching TV while someone is asleep in the MBR? The TV and head of the bed sharing the same spot could be problematic. I would at least insulate that wall, for sound deadening.

A bath the size of the Master could have a separate toilet compartment, especially if this is to be a true two person bath. Also there is no real sense of entry into that Master Bath.

Right now, you walk in and see the toilet, In a large master bath the visual should be almost ceremonial: a good centered view of the vanities & mirror, or the tub; or glassed in shower.

Can you at least switch the dishwasher's position for the longer end of the island? Also, a drawer style dishwasher will be less obnoxious when open in a tight area, where ever you put it. I like the simplicity of this plan--very tidy. I guess you can pull it off with that tremendous pantry/storage area. I'm getting a little bit inspired. :)

Now I'll be annoying: what's the deal with the master bedroom? Don't you guys have any furniture? You've got no furniture wall! (I suspect you've thought this out and know what you're doing...right?)

palimpsest,

First of all, comments are always welcome and appreciated.

As for the living area, it is the only one upstairs, but we will have a fully finished basement with a large wide open rec room. I'll get a pic up later, unless I should be posting the full plans elsewhere...don't want to get in trouble for going too off topic :).

Generally no one would be sleeping with the TV on upstairs, although it could happen. Having the speakers face away from the wall should help, but putting some insulation in that wall is a great idea.

I had a drawing where the toilet was in its own room, but it was looking cramped trying to fit everything else in there. I think it would be the extra door that may be problematic. I wonder though if it would make sense to put the toilet backed on to the MB wall, and then install a partition to close off that corner.
As for the door, if we did do that partition, the door could swing in against it and then you would be more directed towards the vanity.

I'm working on a modified kitchen and will post later. If doing a straight island, what is the recommend distance between it and the wall cabinets? Also, how large of an island would you do? 4' wide?

You have so much room here but there's not decent/handy prep space or dish storage, and it looks pretty tight between the edge of the island and the couches.. not much room for stools and traffic pattern to the DR table

What about something like this? (very rough)

We just lived in a house with a very similar layout. Our dishwasher was on the left with a cabinet between it and the sink cabinet. That worked well as you were not pinched when moving items from the sink to the dishwasher.

Will the overhang on the island be raised? Ours was and it crated a problem because it was very difficult to have a dish rack with a drainer. Either it drained on the counter, or you lost the use of part of the sink bowl. The angles made the island look good, but it was not the most efficient layout.

fori -> We would definitely need to get some more space between the DW and sink if we are sticking with that island. The DW is on that end of the island so that it is close to the cabinets where we want the dishware, which is the cabinets closest to the dining room table.
Credit for the large pantry goes to my wife. She hasn't cared to have too much input, other then she must have the big pantry. We've never seen a similar design around here, but I think it is a good idea.
As for the master, it is definitely not waht you would consider big...I think only 13' x 11.5' roughly. Our house is not huge and to have 3 bedrooms upstairs we had to make some sacrifices, and a small master was it. That being said, we do not have or like bedroom furniture. All we need is room for a bed and some side tables...maybe a TV on the wall one day. All of our clothes will be in the walk-in closet. It would be nice to have more room in the master, but it would have had to come from somewhere else in the house.

If there is a different way to layout that whole master bedroom, bathroom, walk-in area I'm all ears. The basement has been poured already though so we won't be changing the actual footprint of the house.

tracie -> Thanks for the ideas. I have been concerned with how close the island is to the living room.

dekeoboe -> The overhang would not be raised. One big flat surface so there is plenty of prep area and someone can work from the other side if they want (like the husband that gets up on commecial breaks during the Stanley Cup playoffs to help).

Some updated pics...not perfect yet but a different idea based on some suggestions here. Again, some advice on the distance the island should be from the wall cabinets would be appreciated. Want to keep it roomy enough for two of us to work in there.:

Basement for those interested:

Your aisleways ideally should be about 42", more if you have 2 people working back to back like your latest layout of your sink and stove. 56" might be a bit much though, maybe have both aisleways right at 4'? That's what we've done in our new kitchen that is laid out similar to your latest pic. That one is much better functionally.

Many people here will probably recommend you put a prep sink near that corner between the fridge and stove. That way you have defined prep space and clean up space and they aren't competing with each other. Personally, we don't do enough heavy duty cooking to need a prep sink so our kitchen won't have one. But if you or your wife do a lot of cooking or baking from scratch, the prep sink would be nice to have.

Thanks my2sons. I'll reposition the island. Since the sink and range are across from each other perhaps I'll laeve 48". We'll have to do a quick mock-up at home.
Does 36" seem like enough between the island and fridge (french door)? I don't want to shrink the island too much, and I'd like it to stay in-line with the wall cabinets. If we need to push it a bit further towards the dining area that should be fine as we'll just extend the wall cabinets. With the island moved to the right to be closer to the wall we should have enough of a pathway between island and living area.

As for the prep sink, it is just as you say, a "nice to have". There are a lot of other nice things we'd like, but you have to stop somewhere. We will try to make it as nice as possible, but this isn't going to be the kitchen you see in a magazine. Maybe someday, but currently we are still restricted financially. Not even 30 yet though, so lots of time for remodeling :).

Keep all the great suggestions coming. Glad I decided to register and post on this site finally!

You won't be able to have the MBR toilet in that location. You need 18" from the center to each wall (15" minimum is allowable in some situations, probably not this one since it is a new build). Try it next to the vanity. You could still create some separation. Do you really need two sinks or would one sink and more counter be better?

If you are going to do two this is how I would try it: Single sink in the current double location and single sink at the other end between the tub and shower. Then take a bit of space and make a real toilet enclosure.

As long as you have enough aisle between the fridge and island, I like this better. It's just much more practical, although the sink isn't quite so much like the bridge of a spaceship. This is very similar to my inlaw's kitchen layout (although their pantry goes off in another direction and isn't quite so glorious). Their island has a tall ledge behind it and along the sides though, which makes it bad. This is much nicer.

I have nothing against small bedrooms--the things I do in there don't take much space--except I tend to accumulate furniture. :)

palimpsest -> Thanks for the info on toilet position. I'll have to see what our codes say (not sure if you are from Canada or USA). I have a feeling we may just end up leaving the toilet in the open...neither of us really has a problem with this. The toilet would only be used when only one person is in there, or possibly when one person is in the shower. I do understand the appeal of hiding the toilet though.

Two sinks for us is more important as it allows us both to get ready in the morning at the same time (brushing teeth, etc.).
I actually originally had drawn the bathroom plan with the two separate vanites on each side of the tub, but it looked like the 2nd vanity would crowd the shower area. There is less than 3' from the tub to the shower, as drawn. I believe this would also add some extra cost as well due to more plumbing and obviously the extra vanity, even if the 1st one was made smaller. Should be enough counter space for what we need...if nothing else it prevents us from leaving stuff all over the place.

fori -> Thanks for the comments. We'll see what my wife thinks of her new kitchen :).

Sorry, skimmed:
did anyone suggested extending the range wall a bit, so that the fridge can be put at the end of that wall, moving the range a bit toward the pantry?
This way, you don't have to cross the whole kitchen to get the ketchup, etc, from the diningroom, etc.

Amanda

Do you have children? If not, are you planning to have them?

Do both you and your wife work in the kitchen at the same time (prepping, cooking, cleaning up, or any combination)?

I'm asking the above questions b/c I'm concerned with the sink being in the island with very little workspace around it...and the most is right over the DW. Most of the workspace is on the perimeter...which normally would be great, but with no water source there, it's going to be problematical working in those spaces while prepping...and prepping is 70% of the work done in the kitchen!

Ideally, I'd like to see Refrigerator --> water + workspace --> Range + workspace on both sides

Yes, this is all leading up to strongly recommending a prep sink if you keep this general layout. Since right now the only sink not only has very little real workspace around it (especially on the left side...which would be the natural Prep Zone if there was more room), but its location means: get food out of ref & Pantry, cross an aisle to go to island to rinse/wash, cross another aisle to go to perimeter for chopping/cutting/mixing and then cooking.

It's not the distance so much as it's having to prep in a very small space and picking things up to move them to the next workspace...rather than having it all in one area so you get out the food, place it on the adjacent counter, work at the counter, slide to the range and cook. Meanwhile, someone else is cleaning up, putting away dishes, or maybe making a snack at the island sink.

Here are some ideas...

..

Note the increase in the depth of the cabinets & counters on the left to the "standard" depth (not the reduced depth you currently have in your plans). This means 24" cabinets + 1.5" counter overhang = 25.5" deep

..

For the next two, I kept the reduced depth you currently have on that wall adjacent to the refrigerator. Also, the distance to the table from the end of the extended counter run is well over 4'...closer to 5.5' or 6', plenty of space. The distance b/w the island and the sofa is a bit more than 54", again, plenty of room (and more than you have in your current plan, from what I can tell).

..

..

In all layouts, keep in mind that unless you have a true "counter-depth" or built-in refrigerator (both much more expensive options than a standard-depth or typical counter-depth refrigerator), the doors & handles will need to stick out past all adjacent walls, cabinets, and counters. In most cases, it's around 6" past those...so the refrigerator will, at the very least, project into the aisle 6" & reducing the aisle by those same 6".

If it matters, I think I like Layout #3 the best. The Prep & Cooking Zones are deep inside the kitchen and protected from traffic. The Cleanup Zone is on the periphery but still in the kitchen. The Prep & Cooking Zones are separate from the Cleanup Zone. There's more space b/w the table and counters as well as b/w the sofa and island. The island is clear for large projects (baking, cooking, crafts, gift wrapping, etc.), for buffet-style eating, etc.

Yttocs, it really looks like you're on a good track in reclaiming some of the walk-around pantry space for the kitchen, etc., yet still having a nice pantry.

On seeing that you have 2 bedrooms upstairs, in addition to 3 on the main level, though, I'm wondering now who occupies them all (all the time?). Why you need 2 BRMs plus ?an office on the main when it means cramming all your active living area into such a relatively small space? When there's all that space upstairs--none of it extra/seldom used? I bring up this eyebrow raiser just as a check, even though I know this almost certainly represents your personal needs.

My husband and I personally value the luxury of some privacy and separate personal spaces. I also prefer less bedroom furniture and more closet space. Nevertheless, it seems to me that the living room you guys (5 bedrooms worth of people or just 2-3) presumably would be spending a great deal of time in could really use more space, most availably that space occupied by the MBR bump-out. Even if there weren't actually that many of you.

When designing our home, I designed our active living spaces for my husband's and my empty-nest everyday living, but made it fairly generous because it's used so much, plus a little extra room to create a degree of flexibility--i.e., for when we want to sit 20 for an inoccasional big family dinner, even if at 2 tables (within sight and sound of each other). It only takes a few square feet to do that, but they're extremely critical. In a smallish home, you either can or can't, but we planned for it and it was absolutely one of our best decisions.

So, does that tight, basic apartment-size living/dining area (+ 5 bedrooms) really meet all your potential needs? Yes, probably, but you asked, so I'm asking. :)

I vote for Buehl layout #4...can you put a window over the sink, in that location? That would be beautiful and functional :)

That little bedroom/den...I would switch the closet and door, so it opens across from the linen (?) rather than all three doors opening in the same space, at the end of the hall.

Best of luck with your plan! I really like the bay windows :)

Lavender_Lass, the problems with #4 are:

(1) You have to cross the Prep & Cooking Zones to access the sink from the table space as well as from most of the Great Room/FR...it's the shortest path and we humans much prefer the shortest distance! The Cooking Zone is no longer protected at all...it's now in a potentially well-used path.

(2) It has quite a bit of zone-crossing...when going b/w the refrigerator and Prep Zone (b/w the range & sink) or b/w the refrigerator and island, you have to cross the Cleanup Zone every time. If no one is working in the Cleanup Zone and the DW is closed, it's not too much of an issue (although it does increase the amount of walking back & forth you have to do), but if anyone is working in the Cleanup Zone it can be an issue.

I was tempted not to post #4 b/c of these issues and b/c I would definitely not pick it myself, but in the interests of "completeness", I posted it.

Oh, a third problem with #4...

(3) When the DW is open, it completely blocks access to both the base and upper cabinets on the left wall.

huango -> The reason I wouldn't want the fridge at the end of the cabinets near the table is because I think it would close the kitchen off. I do see the merits of having the fridge near the table though.

buehl -> We have a 14 month old and plan on having one more in the next few years.
My wife is the primary cook (I try to stick to the BBQ), but I help out in the kitchen where I can.
Before I read your post I was telling my wife the exact same thing about the new layout...there is not enough prep room directly to the left of the sink. I've looked at your ideas and really appreciate the time you spent to help us out.
I must say we'd really like to keep the sink in the island. The reason for this is so that you can see the TV and talk to people in the living room while you are cleaning-up and doing dishes. That basically leaves option #1, but again the prep sink is extra cost (sink, faucet, plumbing) and it will use up cabinet space or we'll have to extend the cabinets on that wall (more $$$). Definitely something for us to think about.
Good note on the fridge...I'll bump it back out.

rosie -> Just to clarify, the Master bedroom plus two additional rooms are on the main floor along with the kitchen, etc. We currently have a 14th month old, and plan on having another child in the next few years. We'd like them each to have their own room and be on the same level as us while they are very young. Also, in the one main floor bedroom there is a crib shown instead of a bed...just in case you thought that was a desk.
Downstairs there are two additional bedrooms. One will be a spare bedroom for when people are visiting, and the other will primarily be an office/craft room with the ability to act as another bedroom if we have extra company.
The large downstairs rec. room is where the kids will primarily be playing, etc. The upstairs living area is somewhere to sit down and watch some TV in the evening.

lavender lass -> Is your suggestion to switch the door and closet around due to visual reasons, or something else? That would be an easy change. I guess I figured we might as well just stick all the doors down at the end of the hall.
And yes, that is a linen closet in the hall, and a bedroom (crib shown).

(I think your potty is fine. I'm old fashioned and think it's perfectly fine to see that in a bathroom. In fact, I might become distressed if I didn't!)

Sounds like a good plan, Yttocs, (especially the babies part) and that you know what you want. I imagine you and your husband will be spending most of your time in the rec room too, which definitely is a family-size space. How about a dumbwaiter to connect functions on the two levels? Seriously. It'd take very little space.

I don't know where things in kitchen are right now. Don't like 3 foot aisles--better with original triangle.

Now...am thinking that your storage area has an inordinate amount of walkpath. Look at Plllog's kitchen if you can find an image (help someone?) you will see a doorless pantry area with refrig inside but close to the entry to that long space. Could you do same with your storage? You'd pull the freezer out of the deeps of the closet where it will be a chore to go--gotta open door, turn on light, walk the full length get frozen things, turn off light, shut door. Repeat when you put the ice cream away.

Ignore the current wall pattern between kitchen and front entry for a moment. Could refrig and freezer go side by side to the right of your long counter? Could the landing space currently adjacent to the refrig become a small island still in same position so you could leave/enter the pantry from two directions? Could the pantry area become a wall of closed, attractive cabinets within an alcove?
__

I like the idea of putting the dishwasher on the outside wall to the left of the range in original drawing--better for piling dishes from table, storing them, and launching new tablesettings. Would require more plumbing but if you're starting from scratch it won't be too hard or pricey.
___

The television is a really prominent feature in the house--must be important to you. But the stool sitters have their backs to it and the views. How will you make a second focal point in the direction sitters face so that they don't turn around all the time? Keep this in mind--an art piece?

rosie -> Just to clarify, I am the husband :). But thanks, we like to thnik we are very well grounded and like to have a plan. I guess that is why we've been trying to figure out all the details of our new house well before those decisions actually need to be made. The negative of this is that I seem to spend every waking minute thinking about it...and sometimes wake-up at night thinking about!

florantha -> Thanks for your comments. I will have to see a picture to fully understand what you are talking about, but I think I get the general idea. It would definitely save some space to not need a walkway specifically for the pantry, but we do like the fact that it also functions as a storage room and doesn't have to remain overly neat.
We are used to our freezer being in the basement, so having to walk into a room in the kitchen will be a huge improvement. We would not want the freezer visible anyway, as it is just a plain old white thing. We do have the freezer compartment in our fridge still for something commonly used, like ice cream :). Oh, and the pantry light will trun on automatically when the door is opened...so that saves a step.

I was just talking to our plumber about separating the sink and DW, and he said this is not a problem. What does everyone think about having the one and only sink directly across from the DW (sink in island, DW on wall)? Is this a big issue with rinsing plates and then transferring to the DW? The DW door will be open towards the sink so it's not like you'd have to walk, but I guess the potential is greater to drip water on the floor.

"...keep the sink in the island. The reason for this is so that you can see the TV and talk to people in the living room while you are cleaning-up and doing dishes..."

Do you feel that way when prepping? I'm asking b/c kitchen work studies have shown... 70% of the time spent and work done in the kitchen is spent prepping (Prep Zone)
20% is spent cleaning up (Cleanup Zone)
10% is spent cooking (Cooking Zone)

So, if you like to socialize or watch TV while working in the kitchen, it makes the most sense to place the Prep Zone in the island.

My DH cleans up and we put in an HD TV in the kitchen near the cleanup sink for just that reason. He loves being able to watch what he wants to watch while doing dishes...not what others are necessarily watching. This was especially useful when our children were in the "TV-Y7" and "G" stages...he could watch his PG & TV-14 shows since the kids were usually in the FR...playing or watching Barney! Even now, he watches shows he's recorded while others watch something else in the FR or are doing things that would not be conducive to having the TV on. You could easily mount a TV under one of the upper cabinets...pull it down when in use, close it flat against the bottom of the upper cabinet when not in use. (We put a cable & power outlet in the lower part of the upper cabinet so the cables aren't visible.)

@buehl -- I wonder if it's not just the total time in each zone that matters.

I find during breakfast prep, for example, is not "social time"--the kids are half asleep, the spouse is starting to worry about work (he would log in to check email from European customers before breakfast), etc.

On the other hand, during and after dinner are social times. So, having the ability to socialize during dinner clean up would be nice.

I must say we'd really like to keep the sink in the island. The reason for this is so that you can see the TV and talk to people in the living room while you are cleaning-up and doing dishes. That basically leaves option #1, but again the prep sink is extra cost (sink, faucet, plumbing) and it will use up cabinet space or we'll have to extend the cabinets on that wall (more $$$). Definitely something for us to think about.

Keeping a clean-up sink on the island is fine. The problem isn't that there's a sink on the island, it's that the only sink in the kitchen is on the island. And it's not just workspace that's a problem, it's safety. Especially with little kids in the house, you really, really want to avoid having the range be across the floor from the sink that the cook uses. You don't want her to have to turn around and walk across that wide aisle with a pot of spaghetti to pour off the boiling water in the sink--children move so fast, they can get in the way so easily especially as toddlers. A horrible accident could happen, and even merely annoying accidents (like veering to avoid a toddler and dropping a cold but dirty pan, or spilling something on the floor) are just so unnecessary. You can so easily avoid them by getting a prep sink and putting it where Buehl suggested. Buehl's layout #1 is BRILLIANT from a functionality and safety perspective. (The others are great too but don't meet your requirement of having a cleanup sink on the island.)

Adding a prep sink will boost your budget by a few hundred bucks. (It could boost it by over $1000 if you went nuts and didn't shop around, but that's totally within your control.) That will seem like NOTHING if you leave out the prep sink and your wife or one of your kids gets hurt in a "traffic accident" while she's shuttling between the range and the island. And it will make your kitchen much more flexible; she'll be able to cook while someone else cleans up, loads the DW, etc., because you won't be using the same sinks. That will be fantastic at Thanksgiving, Christmas, and other times when you have lots of people over--it'll keep people out of the cook's way, because she'll be able to do everything she needs to without crossing paths with whoever is cleaning up, loading/unloading the DW, or just standing at the island hanging out.

In other words, yes, it'll add a few hundred bucks, but it's well, well worth it.

janet_425 brings up a good point. While the majority of time spent in the kitchen may be prep, you are typically pretty busy, and perhaps not socializing as much. During clean-up, you are standing at the sink doing something that is not near as fun as cooking, and you are probably winding down a bit, so being able to watch your favorite TV show is nice.

I do agree that the island is a good place for prep, and that you want to be prepping by a sink...which is why we'd like to have both on the island if possible, without getting into multiple sinks.

I've made a drawing moving the DW across the isle so that we can center the sink in the island and therefore get a bit more room to the left of the sink. Did a bit of a mock-up and it seems functional, but again, this is not my expertise. Both the DW and range are a pivot away from the sink. You can do some prep work by the sink and there is plenty of counter space on either side of the range as well. Does this help at all, or is the area gained not worth separating the DW from the sink. Could move the sink further to the right of the island, but risk losing the required space to have a drying rack. I suppose if you did a long enough island you could still fit the DW as well.

Anyway, that's enough thinking, time for bed!

ideagirl2 -> Just saw your post after I posted my last message. You do bring up good points. Perhaps I'll look into the cost of putting a prep sink in. Maybe we cut back a bit on the faucet we were going to put in the main sink so that money can go towards this.
We are planning on having a garburator...would you now need two? One for the single bowl prep sink and one for one side of the washing sink (where you are rinsing dirty dishes)? Or would you just make sure anything that needs that type of disposal goes in the one sink you choose to put the disposal in?

Interesting...in my case, I just want to get the cleanup done...the quicker I do it, the happier I am. that means little socializing so I can get done and go relax. OTOH, while prepping for dinner, my children give me an update of what went on during the day; my DH is also either doing some cleanup or also giving me an update. It's a great time to talk while getting dinner ready.

During parties, I like to be working (prepping & cooking) in the kitchen while visiting with my friends and family. We don't cleanup during a party, so there's no socializing. Usually, I'm the only one up after the party so I'm cleaning up alone...most of it anyway.

Cleanup is definitely not a "social" experience in our home...but prepping is!

The kids are often also helping make dinner...so multiple people need to be able to work in the kitchen at once...at least 2 prepping & cooking and 1 cleaning up. Sometimes all 4 of us are working in the kitchen. This means multiple prep zones and easy access to water for at least 2 or 3 people. Either a single sink with plenty of workspace on both sides, or a prep sink + cleanup sink.

I wonder if your priorities and the way your family connects will change as your children get older....

I would just have one garbage disposal, in the cleanup sink, since that's where you would scrape plates before putting them in the DW. Vegetables can just be peeled into a bowl during prep and then you dump the contents down the disposal when prep is done and you're cleaning up (or some people compost veggie peelings--great for the garden).

If your budget permits it you could also put a disposal in the prep sink, or you could see how things go and add one later on if you want. The key place for it, though, and the place to choose if you only have one, is the cleanup sink.

From what I can tell we will want a sink on the island no matter what. If there is no sink there then it is not a good prep area anyway. It would be good for baking, etc., but as some people have mentioned you want water nearby and to be closer to where you are cooking.
This leaves something like buehl's layout #1, or perhaps my layout above but move the range closer to the corner and put a prep sink next to the DW. That way you could prep either at the island or between the prep sink and range. You can also start cleaning up during cooking as well then as you always have the prep sink.

More thinking to do.

How big is a typical prep sink?
For a S/S drop-in sink what are people typically using these days. The standard around here still seems to be Kindred Steel Queen. Price for the basic two basin is between $250 and $300.

Prep sinks have a pretty big size range, from teeny to huge. Check how big your pasta pot is and imagine how much room you would want to pour off the boiling water. 15" to 18" wide should do the trick, but don't let that stop you from grabbing a 20" or whatever if you see it on sale.

Yes, a sink in the island will make it more prep-friendly, but if you don't want to pay for the sink, then you can sometimes make-do without it. Personally, I would have a sink in the island.

Sizing? It should be no smaller than 12" square interior. Bigger is better. I think something around 16" or 17" in each direction is a decent size. Larger, of course, would be better. Some people here have a "regular" sink for their prep sink...it depends on what you plan to use it for. Mine is 15-3/4" square. It's usable for my needs (prepping only). However, if I also washed pots & pans in it, it would be too small.

Here are some, all but two are under $150. All include a sink grid. Some are also available w/o a sink grid for a little bit less. Some also have a custom cutting board available.

Ticor S405 [24" sink base needed] [$169.99]
Ticor S505 [24" sink base needed] [$159.99]
Ticor S905 [21" sink base needed]
Ticor S805 [18" sink base needed]
Ticor S815 [18" sink base needed]

bump -- have been thinking about this kitchen.
Is the layout changed at all?

Sorry florantha...didn't see your bump back in April.

As a bit of an update, we are still thinking of going with the l-shaped layout with the rectangular island.

If you've seen my recent sink post, we are now looking at purchasing a Ticor overmount online...maybe the one with one large and one small bowl. What do you think of the placement of the sink on the island?
If it is centered I don't beleieve there is enough room for the dishwasher in the island, with the size of island we are looking at doing. Maybe someone here could confirm that for me...how long of an island do you need so you can center a standard sink (made for a 33" cabinet base) and fit a standard width DW to one side?

If we shift the sink closer to the fridge so the DW can be in the island then I worry we'll have to shift the range over as well closer to the corner so they are not back to back. I think it would be nice to have lots of counter space on both sides of the range though. Also, my wife would like to keep as much prep area to the left of the sink as well, which I agree with.

Honestly we have no issue putting the DW on the wall as when it is open it will be very near the sink anyway.

We are also still planning to do dark stained cabinets, but have given up on our very dark wood floor and decided to pursue option B which is still fairly dark, but will make it easier to have contrast between the floor and cabinets.
Floor on the right...cabinets closer to the color of the floor on the left:

Let me know what you think!

I am coming late to this discussion, but since you wanted my comments, I will offer what I see. I'm homeschooling my kids and working on wedding invitations for one of my dds, so forgive the haphazard, more brainstorm-like commentary.

I have to agree with everything Buehl said in her last post, and probably others, about prep and cleanup. --How one can be done while visiting and one is done better without distraction and as quickly as possible. I have big concerns about a dw across the aisle from the sink...Drippy, twisty, messy, inconvenient.

I haven't commented on this layout before, because I have a hard time advising on a "main sink in the island across the aisle from the stove" type of plan. I assume that some people like them and they work well, or there wouldn't be so many? But it wouldn't work for me. I find that dirty dishes collect in and around the sink, at least in our house, and I don't want that on central display. I also don't like to prep over dirty dishes, so usually prefer a prep sink...and like, Buehl, I'd want to prep and visit over the island and collect dirty dishes for cleanup elsewhere, if at all possible. I want my cooking area more sheltered and for the cook to be freer to work without bumping into someone behind.

It looks like you have 2 ft to either side of the sink, which is not a lot for prep, much less prep shared with cleanup area.

I wonder if you could gain anything by reconfiguring the pantry. I am uncomfortable with the plan to have the freezer hemmed in behind shelves. Will it fit to have it across from the doorway, then shelves in an L for the rest?

It would be an 'easy' fix to put the fridge where you have the dw, but understand why you prefer to avoid that. Even though I don't like fridges situated like that, I would seriously consider it in this layout, with the clean up wall by the pantry. The other layout that makes the most functional sense to me is Buehl's #3.

Thanks for the comments.

We'll have to give our layout at least one more good look and decide if we really want the main sink in the island or not. I do understand the concerns about having dirty dishes stacking up on the island.

If we did all of a sudden decide to move the clean-up sink to the outside wall what would you do above it? Make the upper cabinets not come down as low in that area? Make them shallower (as in buehl's layout #3)? We do not have a window planned for that wall and with the framing happening already that is not something we are going to change. Also, other then for light, I wouldn't want a window there anyway as it would just look at the neighbors house.

If we did move the sink out of the island then I agree that buehl's layout #3 would probably make the most sense for us. Also, if we go with this Ticor sink maybe we are saving enough we could justify a prep sink in the island if we really wanted. Although even with the one sink we'd at least be able to use the smaller bowl for prep and have the large bowl to start putting dishes into.

Oh, and in terms of the pantry, yes, I've been working on different layouts where we maybe narrow that isle a touch and turn the freezer 90 degrees.

How much room would you want between the front of the freezer and the wall? How deep would you make the pantry shelves (the width of a large cereal box?)?
The pantry is currently drawn as about 4' wide (width of the freezer), but if we turn the freezer I'd like to narrow that if possible, but don't want to make it too cramped. I guess enough room that you can walk in with your hands full without feeling the need to turn sideways so you can fit.

Just did a quick rearrangement based on buehl's layout #3 suggestions:

rhome410 -> Looking at the pantry, I don't think we'd want the freezer by the pantry door as we'll want that space for more commonly used items. Regularly used freezer items will be stored in the fridge freezer...the pantry freezer will have items like frozen meat, etc.

The one thing I haven't shown is the possibility of being able to recess that fridge a bit into the pantry, if that happens to work out for the style of fridge we have.

22 inches seems like a very tight area for which to access the freezer.

After seeing MythreesonsNC's kitchen, I had a couple of other rough ideas. Please also excuse the rather terrible cutting and pasting: