MDF or Wood Cabinet Doors for kitchen

13 years ago

I need some help on a kitchen remodel. My husband and I consider ourselves to have a "Transition" style, which I guess is a cross between traditional and contemporary. That being said, we love how people are designing their kitchens with white or lighter colored cabinets. We are leaning towards MDF Shaker doors in off white or beige, with a wood island in dark stain. My sister, the realtor, flipped.

She said that we were crazy not to do wood and when this "trend" is over we will wish we could sand and stain our cabinets rather that redoing them... And that it would be an issue if we sold in the future. Keep in mind she is my older sister and loves to have this affect on me. :)

So what are your thoughts?
How do we get our off white cabinets without going the MDF route, or is there another way? Or is MDF fine and has plenty of future options?
Or do I ignore her once again and trust my own choices?

Featured Answer

PRO

Brickwood Builders, Inc.

13 years ago

I respectfully disagree with you. We do not represent any one cabinet brand or cabinet company - we have nothing to protect or defend. In fact we have, by choice, not aligned ourselves with any brand as we believe no one brand can serve every market and we don't want to misrepresent a product to any market. I have no dog in this hunt, but am merely trying to make sure homeowners do their own homework when making decisions. The information provided by many manufacturers is too vague - people need to look beyond the surface. If it is in the brochure and on their website then the customer is advised, but must do their homework to understand "wood" can have many meanings and the advertising is not necessarily illegal. The use of the term "wood" is generic and therefore requires more digging. Certainly, if an company advertises that their cabinets are all plywood construction then certainly it would be required to be so, but we rarely see such advertising. Even if I saw that advertising, I would want to know what the doors and face frame are made of - I don't want and would not recommend to a client to have plywood face frames and plywood cabinet doors. You have to check everything.

We do a considerable amount of work trying to identify good quality products for our clients and we are good, honest and effective advocates for our clients. We keep their best interest above all else. It is up to the client to make their final decision, but we work diligently to make sure they have as much information as can be found in order to make wise decisions. My post is intended to help customers protect themselves (but it requires some work on their part) and I resent any indication otherwise. You do not know me or my company. You obviously have not read my response accurately.

Read information provided by manufacturers of any industry. Just pick one. Let's try chicken nuggets. There is no manufacturer that "advertises" their product as mostly non-chicken related materials and they certainly don't disclose the disgusting process used to create them. McDonald's chicken nuggets are more than 50% corn. Companies merely "advertise" that they are chicken nuggets - unless they in fact are something better than the ordinary and, if they say it is better, then they have to be able to back it up. Ford Motor Company does not "advertise" that the My Ford Touch system and the Sync system only work about half the time. I found out after buying it - as a consumer I didn't do my homework on that one. Peanut Butter is a great example. I am sitting here looking at my Jif jar. The FDA allows 25mg of grit and 1 rodent hair per 100 grams of peanut butter. That means I could expect to find 3.4 rodent hairs and 85 mg of grit in this small jar. I cannot find anywhere on my jar label or in any advertising that these are (or may be) included.

As consumers we all have to work to understand what we are buying. I don't know what your angle is. You have created a profile here with only this one discussion so it appears you have no interest in being a viable Houzz contributor.

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Comments (27)

olldcan
13 years ago
The are plenty of stain options in the light colours like, off white, cream, etc That look great on maple and others. I hate to side with your older sister but in terms of resale.........probably not the best idea. For me personally, MDF is not even a consideration.
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
13 years ago
If you like painted cabinets go for it - they will be classic and timeless. You are smart to keep it simple.

However, be an informed buyer. MANY, MANY very expensive painted cabinets have a wood box and face frame (which you definitely want- no particle board box) and may have an MDF door or partial MDF door (meaning the stiles and rails may be wood and the center section is MDF). This is because MDF has a very smooth finish and shows no grain or imperfections when painted. It also does not expand and contract which is what causes the small cracks in painted doors. Under current law, the manufacturer can sell the cabinet as a wooden cabinet and may or may not disclose that there is some MDF in the product. Just do your research and know what you are getting. MDF is not all bad and I would not hesitate to use it in the right setting.

The same is true for stained cabinetry. MANY, MANY expensive stained cabinets have sides that are a glue on vinyl with a wood appearance and have melamine parts on the interior. Again, you have to research to know what you are getting and the nomenclature used by manufacturers can make it hard.

I bet most people, including your sister and every realtor that I know personally, could not tell the difference just by walking in and looking at a cabinet. Most people have no idea they are buying a particle board box when they purchase cabinets. I would be more wary of that than the MDF - maybe just because of negative experiences with particle board.
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charleee
13 years ago
Wow, Deborah, I had no idea! Great advice....olldbob
quantifiable
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
Deborah, Can you please elaborate on the legality of selling "all wood: cabinets with mdf and particle board
components. Is this a state law or federal statute? Is it based on case law? It seems to me that if the seller is selling an "all wood" cabinet it should be all wood. Please elaborate on the relevant law.
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
13 years ago
I can't tell you specifically what the laws are. I was referring to truth in advertising laws. Particle board is wood dust/particles glued back together with some type of medium so it is technically a wood based product. So technically a manufacturer is not untruthful if they say it is a wood cabinet. Many of the manufacturers call particle board "furniture board" so it sounds better, but it's the same stuff. MDF is also dust/particles glued back together but is far more dense that particle board. We ask to see the side panels and box construction of any stock cabinetry that we seriously consider using. Ideally, we would want to see 1/2" or 3/4" plywood sides and a solid wood face frame.

We had some friends that built a new home and insisted that their cabinetry was all wood. In looking at the brochure for their cabinetry, if you read very carefully, there is a reference to wood grain vinyl sides buried in all the information. Which means it is particle board with a vinyl sheet that looks like wood adhered to the sides. It's a process of educating yourselves. There was a thread on Houzz some time ago about Omega cabinetry and that the company "baited and switched" the consumer because a portion of their cabinetry was MDF and not wood. I happen to disagree with the consumer (who IMO, did not do her homework) as when I went to their website for the product she purchased, it clearly said in a footnote on the page that MDF was used in painted cabinetry.
quantifiable
13 years ago
The Laws of this land are nebulous and many times quite verbose. When referring to legality one must be very specific as to the municipality and the case law or statute. You are absolutely wrong in your statement due to it's generality. If the cabinets are classified as "All Plywood Construction" for instance (a term used by most retailers), the use of these other materials without the customers knowledge would most likely violate the regulations of the Federal Trade Comission and the the Consumer Protection Laws of most States. There is a clear difference and distinction between particle board, mdf, and plywood. Even the intellectually challenged and morally bereft company Home Depot acknowledges this : http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/ContentView?pn=Plywood&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053
If you were to purchase and "all 14K gold necklace" and discovered that the seller had substituted lead in portions of the jewelry you would have a very strong law suit. This is very obvious and I can only assume that you are protecting your own interests and those of the manufacturers you sell when you make such a general and inaccurate comment. Being in the business you should know the specific law regulating your industry. How else can you be an effective advocate for your clients, who by the way come to experts like yourself to do "their homework".
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
Just for clarification, I do NOT sell cabinets and neither does my company. We are general contractors not a cabinet shop. We ASSIST our clients in making their selections based on all the information we can gather on their behalf. We take them to local cabinet distributors or local cabinet makers that we believe are reputable. We listen along with our clients to what the sales people say and then we investigate everything we can to help them determine the value they are being offered - it is up to the client to ultimately make decisions and balance their own desire for quality vs their budget. We just want them to have as much information as possible in order to make decisions. Again, we do NOT sell the cabinets and we represent no particular cabinet company.
elcieg
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
Does anyone remember the post "Help, my kitchen is deteriorating" in which I took part. The poster chose her "higher" end cabs, believing she had solid maple. Well, she didn't get what she thought she'd purchased. What a mess. It was quite a saga, but she "won" her case. Her name is Caroline Bogart and to get final resolution from the company, she had to agree not to discuss the details of the settlement.

So, Keri, listen to Deborah. SHE HAS NO AGENDA, unless giving you good advice qualifies as agenda. Know your product. What looks good, may not be good for you. One thing I learned was to read carefully the limitations companies put on their product that will prevent you from recourse if need be. In the case of the post I mentioned, it was how and with what you clean the finish. There were some insulting remarks made by the company rep.

I wish i had Deborah with me when I purchased my cabs.
Emily Hurley
13 years ago
Hey everyone, let's remember to keep it polite and on topic to help the original poster with their design dilemma. We are all here because we have a shared love of design, so let's focus on that common ground.

Thanks!

Emily Hurley
Community Manager
Houzz
S. Thomas Kutch
13 years ago
Kerr, Deborah has given really all the information you need. If you're painting your cabinets, then MDF is fine.
rinked
13 years ago
Every material has it's positive and negative aspects.
I go with Mr. Kutch's answer.
quantifiable
13 years ago
Keri, There is almost a conspiracy to force mdf and particle board products on the consumer. The fact that my comments on the material on this site were deleted proves this to me. Search the web and you will find very little negative input on the stuff. It's not because it's a great product. Trust me. I would stay away from it if I were you. I've seen mdf get wet and fall apart in a short period of time. Less than 24 hrs. of minimal exposure. If it's going to contact the floor it's hard to seal it completely. Don't trust me or anyone else especially online. Get a sample and wet it.
feeny
13 years ago
Another informative Houzz thread on this issue:
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/mdf-vs-plywood-box-dsvw-vd~407874
rinked
13 years ago
last modified: 13 years ago
MDF should never be used on surfaces that get soaked. And it should be sealed, because it (most brands) contains formaldehyde and the plastic layers are melamine. I admit I had nosebleeds every week when I made storage cabinets from them on a daily basis (hence the sealing). The quality as in durability however is mostly based on the quality of the resins used and the density (both chipboard and mdf). It is a material that holds paint very well, because it doesn't "work" like wood and it's hard. And even though I don't believe in conspiracies mentioned, I understand why it is used for smooth surfaces, but I also know the ingredients are toxic. But so are additives in food, care products and loads of household materials. And for solid wood a tree needs to be cut down.
rinked
13 years ago
And.. We're talking doors now. I would not recommend mdf shelves or cabinets, but to use it for doors is fine.
edaem
13 years ago
Listen to your sister. Not only because you will want to restain or paint in the future but because MDF is a known carcinogen. With trends going towards renewable, sustainable and environmentally safe products, MDF is all kinds of wrong. But is does make the overal project considerably cheaper.
pumpkin5
12 years ago
not that much cheaper. I was quoted 3000$ more to get maple instead of mdf
PRO
User
12 years ago
Wood is best whether you paint or stain.
PRO
Clever Storage by Kesseböhmer
12 years ago
I would agree with Deborah as well, when painting, MDF is a much more stable wood to paint on. Wood has a tendency to expand and contract, and that will expose paint joints. While others are correct that using wood gives you the choice to sand it down and stain it later, it's a monumental task to sand down completely a frame and panel door and stain it later. Almost all of the time people pass on that because it's just hard work and go with another coat of paint. That being the case, I'd do MDF all the time for paint.

You should also be aware that there is good, and not so good MDF, so make sure whoever's ordering or building your cabinets uses good MDF.
PRO
User
12 years ago
MDF around the sink areas has a strong tendency to absorb water and swell. The corners are not crisp and sharp on MDF doors.
Stephanie Sheets
12 years ago
The last comment on here is from 2013. I am now putting in cabinets in my kitchen and I want to paint. I was given the option of MDF. I am wanting to know it I made the right choice. I will be using granite countertops. Has there been any issues around the dishwashers?
ronahome
12 years ago
Hi everyone. Great discussion, very topical and helpful for me right now. I am wondering if anyone here who was pro-real wood, eventually got painted MDF doors and is happy with the result? My biggest fear is I will walk into my brand new kitchen and hate it because the doors look cheap and plasticy and not like real wood. I have a beautiful old 1930's house full of white timber doors and white timber windows. I want to ensure the white shaker door kitchen with black (charcoal grey) island will look amazing! Renovation stress! Thanks for any help you can provide.
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
12 years ago
For a vintage home where you have wood doors (rather than molded doors) throughout the home, I would stay with wood for your cabinetry and be consistent. I don't think MDF is bad, and it does not have a plastic look or feel, but it does not have the crisp lines that you may want.
ronahome
12 years ago
Thanks Deborah. Appreciate your help. I don't really want to spend any more money but ultimately the kitchen needs to be in keeping with the home.
thebensonbunch
11 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I don't know how old this thread is, but just thought I'd jump in with my experience. I'm currently getting bids on a very small apartment kitchen where I want white mission style (probably also called Shaker style) cabinets. My bids for about 15 linear feet of cabinets have ranged from 1500ish to 3100 installed. I'll probably end up somewhere in the middle with stock cabinets with all wood construction. I could do the MDF door panels and save a few hundred dollars and still be happy with the cabinets, but I just prefer the all wood. When I inquired about the MDF door panels, I got the same explanation given here that it doesn't expand and contract like real wood so it looks better over time. I was also told that it is easy to repair and repaint. I guess I just don't feel like wood expansion and contraction is a huge issue. The house that's getting the new cabinets is 70 years old, and has some original wood floors that seem to be doing just fine. I don't know if that's a valid observation to base an opinion on, but for a few hundred dollars in the whole scope of a whole kitchen remodel, I'm just going to go wood. Update: I started asking more questions, and it turns out even the higher end custom cabinets usually have melamine boxes. Even plywood is an upgrade in some cases. So I guess the moral of this post is, ask lots of questions when comparing cabinet bids!
PRO
Dressing the Home
11 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Since MDF is more dimensionally stable than wood, the panels of stock white painted cabinet doors will typically be MDF surrounded by stiles and rails of solid wood which are assembled and then painted as a unit. The reason for this, as explained earlier in this blog, is to prevent the expansion and contraction of the panel which leads to cracks in the paint on the surface. MDF panels are heavier than wood and the joints of the stiles and rails will still crack. IMHO, there is a simple solution to this; however, it increases the cost and none of the stock cabinet manufacturers are willing to do it: paint each of the door components before assembling the door if you want to paint. I have even called some cabinet companies to suggest this, but they are more interested in being cost competitive. It really is a shame. If anyone knows of a cabinet corporation that is interested in performing the work necessary to make a quality solid wood painted door the way I've described, please share!

MDF or Wood Cabinet Doors for kitchen

Brickwood Builders, Inc.

Comments (27)

olldcan

Brickwood Builders, Inc.

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charleee

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