oh, and what is the easiest way to dig a trench! Is there a rental tool that will do the job.

Clay soil!

If your downspouting is riveted together it is most likely "Pop rivets" which are very commonly used by gutter installers. Before they are installed a Pop Rivet has a metal pin extending out through the head which looks like a finishing nail. To install the river they first drill the proper size hole in the metal to be joined, then insert the rivet. At this point the head of the rivet would be flush with the outside of the metal to be joined and the pin would be extending out approximately an inch. You then attach a Pop rivet expander tool which looks like a specialized pair of pliers. The pop rivet expander holds the head of the rivet flush with the exterior of the metal while pulling the pin outwards. As the pin is pulled outwards it expands the interior portion of the rivet until it is tight against the inside of the metal to be joined and when it reaches a preset stress the pip "Pop" or snaps loose and is then pulled out leaving only the rivet in place. If you look at the heads of the rivets closely you will see a small hole through the head where the pin came out.

Removing pop rivets is very easy. Begin by selecting a HSS(high speed steel) drill bit with a diameter slightly larger than the hole in the rivet head. Us the hole in the rivet in the same manner as you would a centerpunch to guide the drill bit and drill the rivet out. The drill bit will cut the rivet head away from the rivet body in a few seconds and the rivet is free.

In regard to trenching. The best method of trenching close to a structure is an ordinary shovel and a lot of elbow grease. The advantage of hand digging is that you are less likely to damage any pipes, conduits or buried cables that may be present. If you have a lot of trench to dig you may want to consider renting a trenching machine, but normally they are not practical unless you will be digging 50' or more.

The law requires that before you begin digging any holes or trenches that will be 12" or more in depth you must first call "One Call" or "Dig Safe" 48 hours in advance to have them come and mark the location of any buried utility lines. If you can't find the phone number in your phone book call any Plumber, Electrician or Excavation contractor and they will be glad to give you the phone number.

Do not take this step lightly, If you fail to call and you happen to damage a buried utility line you can and will be held both civil and criminally liable for any and all damage that results. When i worked in Florida we were required to carry our copy of the code book with us at all times and they required that we had a sticker on the cover of the code book with the dig safe phone number on it.

Also keep in mind that they only keep records of the placement of the utility mains, they do not plot the actual service taps from the main to a structure. Before you begin check the location where your water lines, gas line or sewer line enters the structure to get a good estimate of where that line may be located. If you do not have overhead wires for electric, phone or cable you should then anticipate they are also underground service and you must make every effort to locate them before digging. Gas lines may be run with either metal or plastic pipe. When running plastic pipe we are required to run a copper wire parallel to the pipe which the gas company can use to inject a signal and use a tracing device to locate the line. It is now also a common practice and in some regions a code requirement to run a strip of plastic marker tape slightly above buried lines in a trench. When digging if you happen to find a red or yellow plastic tape check it out, it should be printed Gas line or Electric line. Also, if you happen to hit any buried concrete that is dyed red, do not disturb it. Red concrete indicates a buried electrical line.

Thanks.... I went and bought a couple of drill bits. I don't know if my drill is high speed, but I'll give it a try.

Breaking a gas line sounds like bad news! I believe only gas and water lines are underground.

Kelton

The reference to high speed steel drill bits refers to the quality of the metal used to make the bits. The common ordinary drill bits used to drill steel are called High Speed Steel bits or simply abreviated HSS. Higher quality bits are made of titanium or cobalt and cost much more. In this case the simple cheapie bits will work fine.

I see re: the high speed bits. thanks

OK.... so I did the job on the downspouts. Then...

I got back up on the roof to deal with the gutters... the worst of which have pulled away somewhat from the roof. Upon inspection, I noticed that 75% of the existing gutter nails are bowed or bent. Most of the nails are just "snug" in those holes while others are totally loose.

I bought some gutter nails,and drilled some starter holes through the gutter and into the wood ~1". I did this about five inches from the existing nail. As I hammered the nail easily into the wood, the darn nail just stops going in! Then, it bows in the middle just like the existing nails. It feels like it hits stone or metal and then easily bends.

I'm not getting far into that wood.

Another issue: In the bad places, the gutters are not under that metal drip edge. The shingle hangs over nicely, but the drip edges, in some cases, are actually behind the lip of the gutter.

Sorry... gutter talk is not very provocative, but I'm trying to get this new (but old) house into fundamentally sound condition... dealting with moisture is job one (I think).

Kelton

You might try gutter screws. Beats the heck out of trying to drive an aluminum nail. You should be able to find them in any home center (in the gutter aisle) or better hardware store. If not, they're available online from McFeeley's.

Mike

I just ordered from McFeeley's... I hope they help. They look much more substantial than those nails. Thanks a million!

I know this is a very old post, but hoping for some related advice. I, too, need to remove rivets, and now know how. But then I want to put the same pieces back in place. Will it work to just use screws that thread into the hole? I want to use something that is easy to take apart and replace every year or two to make it easier to clean out the water diverter that was installed there.

Yes, many downspouts are put together with screws. The disadvantage is that they extend into the internal space and can catch debris if they are too long. I recommend you use nothing longer than 1/4"-3/8", and that you get stainless steel screws to prevent things from rusting and corroding. When you screw the pieces together, the screw should meet some resistance; if it goes in too easily, you need the next bigger diameter screw. Also, when you are screwing it in, stop turning the screw when the underside of the screwhead just touches the downspout. If you turn it much further you will strip the hole and reduce the ability for the screw to stay in place.

Yes, if screws are used, use stainless steel. With aluminum guttering, electrolysis with the ordinary steel screws is rapid and the steel deteriorates much faster than if the entire system was steel. Electrolysis between stainless and aluminum is slight.